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Sorry if Im wrong, been away from the game for some time but why would you take a windrider host in the new eldar codex? Most of the auxilliaries can be take as formations and wont you lose the Objective secure command benefit? This in addition to being forced to take a warlock conclave on bikes. Im just not seeing the appeal, someone please enlighten me.

Because you can take multiple Wraithknights, and still have access to bikes (where the guardian defender/storm formations don't).

Warlock Conclave on bikes is one 50 point guy. Hardly much of a tax.
It's the cheapest of the parent formations.
It gives shred for 1 turn with the shurikens.
It makes all the eldar treat the run dice as a "6" without rolling. Which is a huge mobility advantage.

Look at dire avengers within the craftworld formation.
Serpent moves 6", disembark 6" forward, battle focus 6" and fire 3 BS5 blade storm shots per model. It's an alpha strike with 18" range assault guns.

You don't need objective secure when all your opponents are dead.

The free weapon plat form on the defender formation looks good (free 90 points if you go all ML), and the free fusion guns and power swords are a neat bonus too (storm formation), but both come with a lot of additional baggage (artillery, warwalker, etc).

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Warlock Conclave on bikes is one 50 point guy. Hardly much of a tax.
It's the cheapest of the parent formations.
It gives shred for 1 turn with the shurikens.
It makes all the eldar treat the run dice as a "6" without rolling. Which is a huge mobility advantage.

Look at dire avengers within the craftworld formation.
Serpent moves 6", disembark 6" forward, battle focus 6" and fire 3 BS5 blade storm shots per model. It's an alpha strike with 18" range assault guns.

You don't need objective secure when all your opponents are dead.

The free weapon plat form on the defender formation looks good (free 90 points if you go all ML), and the free fusion guns and power swords are a neat bonus too (storm formation), but both come with a lot of additional baggage (artillery, warwalker, etc).

But bikes can run so if you run bike heavy you pretty much give up ObSec for one turn of shred which is useless if you do just scatter bikes. Assault 3 BS5 you can get with just the DA formation itself. 12 WKs I guess is a pro but unless you want to run a metric ton of WKs I still dont see the big benefit.

You know bikes can dish out 40 S6 shots for less than a Wraithknight, right? Or 30 S6 pseudo-rending ones.

They don't need ObjSec, they murder anything within 3" of an objective.

 Vector Strike wrote:
You know bikes can dish out 40 S6 shots for less than a Wraithknight, right? Or 30 S6 pseudo-rending ones.

They don't need ObjSec, they murder anything within 3" of an objective.

Yes, bikes are very good. That doesnt have anything to do with being in the windrider host though. They are even better in a CAD since they still murder stuff and are ObSec

6" run, obviously.

You can have some OK stuff that benefits more from the formation bonuses
-OR-
You can have some very powerful bikes that don’t get a lot from theirs, but cost less (and kill more).

For people just looking to unlock 1-12 WKs, the bikes do that better. Sure they don’t get the 6” run, but they don’t need it.

I think for most casual and more friendly lists, a Jetseer and a pair of bike squads in a CAD is a very solid choice, you can then sprinkle in the other formations, or just take one or two of things in the CAD, instead of the spammy (but powerful) formations.

Your going to see this formation as the go to formation in most tournaments and even in causal games. It cost 358, if I did the math right, and it'll allows for up to 5 wraithknights. Not that, that would be a casual game, its down right absurd. beatable, sure, but not easily. The other Host's are near 200 points more, I'd give an exact number if I could remember what all was in them.

How about an entire army of Warp Spiders playing flickerjump and 'now you see me, now you don't' all with a BS5, with what restriction you ask. A 10 point exarch. Windrider Host + Aspect Shrine + Aspec Shrine + Wraithknight = 60 spiders all BS 5 who need to be assualted, otherwise they'll just flickerjump all day long. stupid? Yes. beatable? Yes, but highly annoying.

Windrider host + Jetbike seer council = hot death from Eldrich Storm. With 3 powers for each Farseer, there is a high probability of geting Eldrich Storm 1-2 times. You have access to 13 warp charges to throw out at 1-2 storms. Even at warp charge 4 you only need 3+ to succeed and each farseer can re-roll any amount of dice once. All this will get you Apocolyptic blast, fleshbane at AP3!

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Your going to see this formation as the go to formation in most tournaments and even in causal games. It cost 358, if I did the math right, and it'll allows for up to 5 wraithknights. Not that, that would be a casual game, its down right absurd. beatable, sure, but not easily. The other Host's are near 200 points more, I'd give an exact number if I could remember what all was in them.

How about an entire army of Warp Spiders playing flickerjump and 'now you see me, now you don't' all with a BS5, with what restriction you ask. A 10 point exarch. Windrider Host + Aspect Shrine + Aspec Shrine + Wraithknight = 60 spiders all BS 5 who need to be assualted, otherwise they'll just flickerjump all day long. stupid? Yes. beatable? Yes, but highly annoying.

Windrider host + Jetbike seer council = hot death from Eldrich Storm. With 3 powers for each Farseer, there is a high probability of geting Eldrich Storm 1-2 times. You have access to 13 warp charges to throw out at 1-2 storms. Even at warp charge 4 you only need 3+ to succeed and each farseer can re-roll any amount of dice once. All this will get you Apocolyptic blast, fleshbane at AP3!

Yes, I get the spam WKs but the aspect part can be done with a CAD as well can it not? Sure they will have to do a d6 run instead of 6 but the difference isnt huge imo. So really, the only benefit of windrider is if you want to spam WKs I guess?

Because yo dawg I heard you like broken stuff. So we put broken stuff with your broken stuff. Plus a buff. Because.

More seriously, ScatterLaser jetbikes are probably the second scariest thing in the Dex. Scariest being the WK. By taking the Windrider Warhost, its absurdly good by itself. Then you can add scary stuff to it. And with a Wraithhost, or anything else on foot, they get an auto-6" battle focus! That is huge, because (1) now Wraiths get it, and (2) 6" instead of d6 means it is completely reliable. Its just wow.

Even if you didn't want anything that cares about Battlefocus, many events restrict taking more than 2 sources. Sans Warhost, that's a cap of 2 Wraithknights with no other allies. With Warhost, you are capped at 12 *per "source". 12 won't happen, but if you want DE to deliver some Wraith guard, and want 2+ WKs, the Warhost let's you do it. And the Scatter Bikes are the perfect counter to anything the Wraiths aren't.

So yes, there are really good reasons to take the Windrider formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(A huge balancing point to Battle focus has been that its random. Auto-6 would be huge for my footdar.)

Azrael the Departed wrote:


Yes, I get the spam WKs but the aspect part can be done with a CAD as well can it not? Sure they will have to do a d6 run instead of 6 but the difference isnt huge imo. So really, the only benefit of windrider is if you want to spam WKs I guess?

As said above, its the cheaest way to get the 6" run buff. Which is actually pretty huge. Think about it, the rest of your army (non-jetbikes I mean) are guaranteed to be able to over 6" after they shoot. Abuse that with some terrain and frustrate the hell out of your opponent, As said above, this with Warp Spiders is great, something I am certainly considering. Its weakness to me is not being able to have war walkers.

Azrael the Departed wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Your going to see this formation as the go to formation in most tournaments and even in causal games. It cost 358, if I did the math right, and it'll allows for up to 5 wraithknights. Not that, that would be a casual game, its down right absurd. beatable, sure, but not easily. The other Host's are near 200 points more, I'd give an exact number if I could remember what all was in them.

How about an entire army of Warp Spiders playing flickerjump and 'now you see me, now you don't' all with a BS5, with what restriction you ask. A 10 point exarch. Windrider Host + Aspect Shrine + Aspec Shrine + Wraithknight = 60 spiders all BS 5 who need to be assualted, otherwise they'll just flickerjump all day long. stupid? Yes. beatable? Yes, but highly annoying.

Windrider host + Jetbike seer council = hot death from Eldrich Storm. With 3 powers for each Farseer, there is a high probability of geting Eldrich Storm 1-2 times. You have access to 13 warp charges to throw out at 1-2 storms. Even at warp charge 4 you only need 3+ to succeed and each farseer can re-roll any amount of dice once. All this will get you Apocolyptic blast, fleshbane at AP3!

Yes, I get the spam WKs but the aspect part can be done with a CAD as well can it not? Sure they will have to do a d6 run instead of 6 but the difference isnt huge imo. So really, the only benefit of windrider is if you want to spam WKs I guess?

However, it is the buffs from the other auxillery formations that make it worth taking. Example, aspect shrine grants +1 to WS or BS your choice, they all have bonuses to exploit.

Don't get me wrong there are at least 4 CAD lists that are absolutly filthy.

All of my lists have contained a CAD:

Autarch
3 WJB
3WJB
2 Hornet - Pulse Laser
2 Hornet - Pulse Laser
-=492=-

And A Warhost. The warhost functions as a way to unlock the other formations while still staying within a 2 detachment limitation. (for possible tournament play)