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OK I finally got the Eldar Craftworld Codex today, so these are my initial thoughts and my initial reactions: bear in mind I expect players of other armies will want to cough their guts up but I want to be honest.

The Bad:

I am not sure making Farseers mandatory to every list is a good idea, personally I don't ever use them. Now I have to.
Wave Serpents are not as good but aren't cheaper.
Warlock Council got a severe nerf, basically it looks to me unusable, the warlocks unit itself is incredibly expensive but only the same as a single psyker

The Winners:

Storm Guardians, underestimated in a formation, they suddenly got very good (276 points gets you 3 squads, 24 guardians with 6 power weapons and 6 fusion guns). wow. You have to take warwalkers and vypers but still.. very nice.. hell of a blob..
Wraithguard: became awesome in all the ways heavily discussed, d-scythes are the best.
Wraith Lords: brilliant. I can now take all 5 that I own. lovely.
Wraithblades: got a little bit cheaper. same.
Warp Spiders: wow. the best infantry unit (yes, they really were) in the game just got better. str6 but not vs toughness vs initiative! wow. orks and tau are crying for sure. and the fact they can move in all three movements phases (the only unit in 40k that can) AND move in the opponents shooting phase is just berserk. they lost the str7 vs vehicles but I never once used them for that anyway. I have 20 of these guys, I will use them as I did before. 40 shuriken canon shotgun shots at point blank range.

ConanMan wrote:
OK I finally got the Eldar Craftworld Codex today, so these are my initial thoughts and my initial reactions: bear in mind I expect players of other armies will want to cough their guts up but I want to be honest.

The Bad:

I am not sure making Farseers mandatory to every list is a good idea, personally I don't ever use them. Now I have to.
Wave Serpents are not as good but aren't cheaper.
Warlock Council got a severe nerf, basically it looks to me unusable, the warlocks unit itself is incredibly expensive but only the same as a single psyker

The Winners:

Storm Guardians, underestimated in a formation, they suddenly got very good (276 points gets you 3 squads, 24 guardians with 6 power weapons and 6 fusion guns). wow. You have to take warwalkers and vypers but still.. very nice.. hell of a blob..
Wraithguard: became awesome in all the ways heavily discussed, d-scythes are the best.
Wraith Lords: brilliant. I can now take all 5 that I own. lovely.
Wraithblades: got a little bit cheaper. same.
Warp Spiders: wow. the best infantry unit (yes, they really were) in the game just got better. str6 but not vs toughness vs initiative! wow. orks and tau are crying for sure. and the fact they can move in all three movements phases (the only unit in 40k that can) AND move in the opponents shooting phase is just berserk. they lost the str7 vs vehicles but I never once used them for that anyway. I have 20 of these guys, I will use them as I did before. 40 shuriken canon shotgun shots at point blank range.

Couple of things:

Wraithlord is one of the only units in the codex that did NOT get any better (Besides formation bonuses).

How you did not include wraithknight under "Winners" is hilarious

I think you misunderstand warlock council. I advise you to reread it.

Do not even complain about wave serpent "Nerf". It is still arguably the best transport in the game for the cost.

*sigh* thanks for your negative feedback, it seems you disagree, but you are forgetting, that the heavy slot competition ruled out wraithlords nothing else was bad about them.

I hadn't finished writing it so that is where the WraithKnight was, not written yet.

I did read the warlock council rules 1-3 models counts as a level 1 psyker 4-6 counts as level 2 etc

and the wave serpent was not overused by me, you may have overused it but I did not, but the loss of laser lock and loss of the shield as an effective weapon is huge: They can no longer be used vs fliers, have the same guns a vyper, except once per turn yet they aren't assault. And to a lot of players they were primarily anti-air. I took them as transports to protect the troops more than gun boats. But then I won tournaments by using vypers and falcons. Units that people say had no place in a competitive list.

In addition to acting as a single psyker for casting purposes (with a variable ML), the Warlock Council also generates a Warp Charge die for each and every warlock. That's huge. Especially given Farseers' ability to re-roll failures, your Eldar can now stretch their dice much, much further, for many more powers. (Or more likely ones in games against other psy-heavy forces, like GK or Daemons)

I can use my dive wraithknights now.

Congratulations, this book was written for you and others just like you. Now you need to find each other so you can actually play a game with them.

Winners: Craftworld Eldar.
Loser: Every other codex except Necrons.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Winners: Craftworld Eldar and their Battle Brothers.
Loser: Every other codex except Necrons.

Fixed that for you.

Laser lances lost the impact rule, so get to keep on being AP3 throughout the combat.

Jain Zar lost an attack. Her Silent Death weapon lost the melee rule, so she doesn’t have paired CC weapons anymore.

And you don’t need a farseer if you use a CAD. Just because we have the new formation doesn’t mean we need to use it. A lot of the things it offers are nice, but have a high buy in cost.

ConanMan wrote:
OK I finally got the Eldar Craftworld Codex today, so these are my initial thoughts and my initial reactions: bear in mind I expect players of other armies will want to cough their guts up but I want to be honest.

The Bad:

I am not sure making Farseers mandatory to every list is a good idea, personally I don't ever use them. Now I have to.

What makes them any more mandatory now than they were before? Other than the fact that they're just even better? There are still Phoenix Lords, Autarchs, Spiritseers, and SC's that didn't get any worse.

Wave Serpents are not as good but aren't cheaper.

They got a bit cheaper. They are still absolutely fantastic and aren't anything near "bad" units, they're just not absurdly overcapable long range battle tanks anymore. If your big issue is the loss of anti-air functionality, well, that was never something they were supposed to fill in the first place, and their ability in that role previously was an unintended crutch.

With the widespread availability of EML's sporting skyfire missiles, the cheap and vastly increased availability of Scatterlasers, coupled with even better psychic support and cheaper Dark Reapers/Crimson Hunters, fliers shouldn't be a terribly huge issue.

Warlock Council got a severe nerf, basically it looks to me unusable, the warlocks unit itself is incredibly expensive but only the same as a single psyker

As others have noted, methinks you're misunderstanding this unit. They're pretty solid.

 Orock wrote:
I can use my dive wraithknights now.

Congratulations, this book was written for you and others just like you. Now you need to find each other so you can actually play a game with them.

is that english?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*sigh*

the thing about forums like this is few people actually have an desire intelligent debate about things, it's almost like you actually don't play games just theory-craft forums like you think you ought to. so for you guys: flame away I won't really read those posts.

maybe you think 40k is standing at the back and moving forwards pewpewing the closest thing.

maybe it is, when you play. I hope not.

eldar are still hard to play "well" since ther lists contain few generalists. yes. that is true. yet as they have always been you can table a army in two turns if you play them well, and lose in 2 turns if you don't. taking wraithknights isn't going to help you vs tyranids with poison, or even a blob of imperial guard. it's only going to help you vs players who place the entire army as far away as they can and roll dice at you. You're going to tell me I am wrong, but I am not,

I am genuinely surprised no-one has noticed the storm guardians or the massive buff warp spiders have got. warp spiders needed a nerf desperately but no-one moaned about them despite them being the best infantry unit in 40k (no exceptions) so they got a buff.. how? I have no idea. (brokenly good, of course, unless you don't understand movement. in which case see my earlier point.)

In my honest opinion wraith units went from str 10 to str d which is NOT the biggest jump in the world unless ur vehicles.. but I cannot remember the last time my 5 wraith guard didn't destroy a vehicle in one turn anyway with their old str 10. however wraiths now are by far the best generalists except vs fliers.

for some reason eldar now have jetbikes that can all load scatter lasers, so every man and his dog will do that, they will go and buy 27 point t3 models even though they are too big to physically fit most places with the cover you need them to be in, and yet the internet forums still think they are "it". that is a false friend when they die so easily. too fragile by half. too hard to hide.

the comment about scatter lasers being good anti air is not true, the previous codex rules were such that if i shot all 3 of my wave serps at a flier I would maybe glance it twice, BS1 is very low probability, you needed to secure a 6 on the 4 re-rollable scatter shots then you get to reroll 4 or 5 shield shots and so you'd be lucky to get 2 hits then they have to pen then they jink. it's easy to see how hard it was to hit, penetrate, avoid cover save. so wave serpents were only useful as anti air if they jinked (how I used them) since the BS1 penalty was already on them.

instead of that 40+ shots to kill something mathswise it was suggested that the new meta of 70+ scatter laser shots to down even a AV10 is viable. simply impossible odds.

I still think you should go back and read through the book again to digest it.
Farseers are not mandatory. You don't have to run a Warhost, you can do a simple CAD or just use the separate detachments (such as wraith host).
Wraithguard got a lot better. They still kill most normal things on a 2+ but vs multi-wound creatures and armour they became significantly better.
Wraithknight is sick for the points, period. Just having the ability to split fire,. stomp and get FNP plus only get wounded by sniper/poison on a 6 is worth more than the added points before even going into the D weapons.

There is so much goodness in the codex, and since I don't spam units, I really like what they've done.

ConanMan wrote:
OK I finally got the Eldar Craftworld Codex today, so these are my initial thoughts and my initial reactions: bear in mind I expect players of other armies will want to cough their guts up but I want to be honest.

The Bad:

I am not sure making Farseers mandatory to every list is a good idea, personally I don't ever use them. Now I have to.
Wave Serpents are not as good but aren't cheaper.
Warlock Council got a severe nerf, basically it looks to me unusable, the warlocks unit itself is incredibly expensive but only the same as a single psyker

The Winners:

Storm Guardians, underestimated in a formation, they suddenly got very good (276 points gets you 3 squads, 24 guardians with 6 power weapons and 6 fusion guns). wow. You have to take warwalkers and vypers but still.. very nice.. hell of a blob..
Wraithguard: became awesome in all the ways heavily discussed, d-scythes are the best.
Wraith Lords: brilliant. I can now take all 5 that I own. lovely.
Wraithblades: got a little bit cheaper. same.
Warp Spiders: wow. the best infantry unit (yes, they really were) in the game just got better. str6 but not vs toughness vs initiative! wow. orks and tau are crying for sure. and the fact they can move in all three movements phases (the only unit in 40k that can) AND move in the opponents shooting phase is just berserk. they lost the str7 vs vehicles but I never once used them for that anyway. I have 20 of these guys, I will use them as I did before. 40 shuriken canon shotgun shots at point blank range.

You can just take a CAD and no farseer but they got a really nice buff in the 'runes of the farseer' witch let's you reliability cast and gives you a very good chance of denying the enemy witch.

ConanMan wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I can use my dive wraithknights now.

Congratulations, this book was written for you and others just like you. Now you need to find each other so you can actually play a game with them.

is that english?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*sigh*

the thing about forums like this is few people actually have an desire intelligent debate about things, it's almost like you actually don't play games just theory-craft forums like you think you ought to. so for you guys: flame away I won't really read those posts.

maybe you think 40k is standing at the back and moving forwards pewpewing the closest thing.

maybe it is, when you play. I hope not.

eldar are still hard to play "well" since ther lists contain few generalists. yes. that is true. yet as they have always been you can table a army in two turns if you play them well, and lose in 2 turns if you don't. taking wraithknights isn't going to help you vs tyranids with poison, or even a blob of imperial guard. it's only going to help you vs players who place the entire army as far away as they can and roll dice at you. You're going to tell me I am wrong, but I am not,

I am genuinely surprised no-one has noticed the storm guardians or the massive buff warp spiders have got. warp spiders needed a nerf desperately but no-one moaned about them despite them being the best infantry unit in 40k (no exceptions) so they got a buff.. how? I have no idea. (brokenly good, of course, unless you don't understand movement. in which case see my earlier point.)

In my honest opinion wraith units went from str 10 to str d which is NOT the biggest jump in the world unless ur vehicles.. but I cannot remember the last time my 5 wraith guard didn't destroy a vehicle in one turn anyway with their old str 10. however wraiths now are by far the best generalists except vs fliers.

for some reason eldar now have jetbikes that can all load scatter lasers, so every man and his dog will do that, they will go and buy 27 point t3 models even though they are too big to physically fit most places with the cover you need them to be in, and yet the internet forums still think they are "it". that is a false friend when they die so easily. too fragile by half. too hard to hide.

the comment about scatter lasers being good anti air is not true, the previous codex rules were such that if i shot all 3 of my wave serps at a flier I would maybe glance it twice, BS1 is very low probability, you needed to secure a 6 on the 4 re-rollable scatter shots then you get to reroll 4 or 5 shield shots and so you'd be lucky to get 2 hits then they have to pen then they jink. it's easy to see how hard it was to hit, penetrate, avoid cover save. so wave serpents were only useful as anti air if they jinked (how I used them) since the BS1 penalty was already on them.

instead of that 40+ shots to kill something mathswise it was suggested that the new meta of 70+ scatter laser shots to down even a AV10 is viable. simply impossible odds.

Just admit your codex is ridiculous. Nothing is worse than someone who downplays how badly overpowered their codex is so they don't feel guilty about using it.

Again, reread the codex. Wraith knights are gargantuan creatures. So "taking wraithknights isn't going to help you vs tyranids with poison, or even a blob of imperial guard" is certainly incorrect.

Really? D is not that much better than Str 10? Say that to every 5+ wound MC that will get 1 shot by a squad or a super heavy that gets 1 shot.

Really? You honestly cannot be defending jet bikes... again, reread the codex. They are T4. Show me another troop that can move 12 inch, jump 6 inch, turboboost 36", shoot 3 str. 6 psuedo-rending shots, can jink, all for 27 points? yeah thats right there isn't any. and you are not playing correctly if you cannot get a squad of 5 of these into cover

I wouldn't say nothing is worse

Usually when new codex pops up the named characters usually take it to the groin.

Besides WS got nerfed and was 100% expected.

but I do want to state for the record that the codex is not overpowered if you don't spam the bikes or take a wraithknight. D weapon guard are dangerous but short ranged so will rely on serpent or DE alllies. The rest of the book is decent but not crazy powerful. Certainly no real bad units in the book so you can take a lot of different stuff and not feel like you are spamming or handicapped.

Thats like saying SM isnt over powered as long as you dont take Drop pods bikes or centurions.....

Basicly everything in there book is a decent +1 and on top of that you can gain even more bonuses with in book formation.

then to add that they have some wicked ally synergy.

The book is overpowered. it gets to dumb levels when you do spam and wombo combo it up

Of course it's overpowered. There will always be one or two codexes more powerful than the others, and one or two at the far opposite end of the spectrum.

That's the nature of a system like this. There is always one stronger color in a cycle in Magic, one or two classes that do better in their roles in WoW, one D&D class that's a little ahead of it's peer classes. It's the nature of a system of choice like this.

If you think it's too overpowered, then by all means say something. If enough people say it loud enough, in theory developers hear you. (No 60" Serpent Shields of death anymore, yeah?)

But ultimately there comes a time when we have to s--t or get off the potty. Are Necrons, Tau, and Eldar better than the other books to a greater or lesser degree? (And are Sisters and Tyranids on the bottom of the heap?) Absolutely. At this point though, it isn't enough to get me to quit 40k, so having made my complaints, I don't see any reason to poison my life by continuing to regurgitate the same hateful tripe over and over again, true or not.

That being said, I find it highly amusing that Conan would rip on someone for a single auto-correct error, only to go on and several paragraphs devoid of any comprehension of correct composition mechanics. Glass houses, first stones, all that jazz.

bullyboy wrote:
but I do want to state for the record that the codex is not overpowered if you don't spam the bikes or take a wraithknight. D weapon guard are dangerous but short ranged so will rely on serpent or DE alllies. The rest of the book is decent but not crazy powerful. Certainly no real bad units in the book so you can take a lot of different stuff and not feel like you are spamming or handicapped.

Well that's wrong. Warp spiders are bonkers good, wraithguard with d flamers can kill anything in the game in one round, and their jet formation with rerollable jink is also stupid broken.

We haven't even calmed down enough to rag on these or aspect warriors with WS bs 5 yet. Give the internet time. There is more broken than not in this codex.

I don't think there were any losers. I think they (GW) took a good codex and made it even better. However, I'm not an Eldar player so what do I know about what's good or not.

Uh, I'm not even sure where to start on your assessment of this book. I disagree with about 90% of what you said.
1. Farseers are in no way mandatory, you can still take eldar in a CAD or allied detachment and run whatever the hell you want. I have no idea why people keep acting like the warhost is the only way or even the best way to run this army.
2. Warlock council is amazing, and 99.9% of the eldar players I've seen agree on this point.
3. Storm guardians are still probably the most useless waste of points in the book. As with #1, you don't HAVE to take the formation to take storm guardians...
4. Wraith lords are terrible. I lost count of how many times I've seen them die without killing a single model or doing much of anything. Being in the heavy slot had nothing to do with why they didn't see play in the past 2 years. Sucking and being a waste of points in every way possible compared to every other unit in the codex (except maybe storm guardians) is why they weren't taken. Considering they're a copy/paste entry from the last book, and everything around them got better, they will still see zero play in competitive settings.
5. Warp spiders got worse against high stat stuff and vehicles. The rest of the codex is full of stuff that's good at killing low iniative peons. They were used mostly as a quick hitting vehicle killer that didn't need a wave serpent to get into position. They lost this use and anything they can do, scatter bikes can do better.

 Orock wrote:
I can use my dive wraithknights now.

Congratulations, this book was written for you and others just like you. Now you need to find each other so you can actually play a game with them.

You realize he said wraithlords, right? Just putting that out there.

Also, I'm getting a little tired of your attitude. You seem to be actively trolling threads in GD and the army lists forum just to berate Eldar players and remind them of how you'll never play games against them, and if I'm not mistaken you even started a thread in TD, not to spark a real discussion but basically just to get people to validate your opinion and agree that 40k was officially dead and that the tournament scene is just utterly broken thanks to Eldar. For the record I agree, the new Eldar codex is bullgak and it really does turn the game on its head, and it was already in a poor state to begin with, so I completely understand the anger and frustration but you're directing it at entirely the wrong people. Games Workshop are the ones that deserve to bear the brunt of your rage, and the Eldar players are as much a victim of their incompetent rules-writing as you are. If anything they're going to suffer worse for it because of people like you. You never have to worry about getting games in when the community considers your army to be sub-par, you're like the underdog and everyone's kinda rooting for you even when they're trying to beat you. No matter how bad it gets you can still actually use all those models you paid out the nose for. Eldar players, who have spent just as much as you have (if not more) are going to be sitting out for yet another edition because of the stigma attached to their codex, which is entirely beyond their control and is solely GW's mistake. You and others have made it painfully clear that the only acceptable course of action for an Eldar player, whether they're defending the new book or not, is to leave their expensive collections on the shelf, and if that's their only army then they're effectively retiring from the game.

No matter how broken the rules are, that's unreasonable and stupid. It's wholly unfair to a large part of the fanbase whose only crime was picking a faction that had really cool-looking models.

It also goes without saying that your whining is kind of funny since, according to your signature, you're the proud owner of at least 2,000 points worth of Tau, which were considered almost just as bad as Eldar before the new Craftworlds codex dropped, and are rumored to be getting a similar update before the end of the year. So I wonder now if all the hate isn't a retaliatory thing because you're angry at people who refused you games based on your army's rules. One thing's for certain, you better not try to defend the new Tau book when it drops after all this abuse you're hurling at Eldar players for trying to defend theirs, or I swear to god I'll follow you around to every thread I can find you in to remind you about how you're WAAC cheese-mongering scum who deserves to have all their models stepped on and thrown in the garbage because you hate fun and exist purely to suck the joy out of others and sow misery and pain among the 40k community.

For the record, I've done the same thing once before, and I kinda lost my gak when GW released Escalation and introduced the revenant titan into regular games, which literally wipes entire armies off the table. Suddenly everyone who owned or wanted to own a really awesome-looking model was a WAAC TFG who wanted to buy easy wins. Thankfully I realized I was being stupid and got over it pretty quick.

Jimsolo wrote:If you think it's too overpowered, then by all means say something. If enough people say it loud enough, in theory developers hear you. (No 60" Serpent Shields of death anymore, yeah?)

To be fair, that's not a very strong argument. It could have been very easily corrected with free errata, but they chose to leave the game in that state for two whole years, then charge people another $60 for a replacement rulebook to fix that one glaring issue...and then obviously created about a billion more issues by making everything else in the book broken.

So, GW kinda listens...but they really kinda don't. So while I think everyone really needs to focus their anger on the company and try to force a change that way, I honestly don't think it would work and GW would keep doing whatever the hell it feels like with no regard whatsoever to the health of the game, the community, or even their own future. So long as we're stuck with the current management I have little hope that GW will do what it needs to do.

In what world were Tau almost as bad as Eldar?
The order was clearly:
1) Eldar and Necrons
2) Daemons
3) Space Marines
4) Tau

So what you're forgetting is how Daemons and Space Marines are far better than Tau.

ConanMan wrote:

Warp Spiders: wow. the best infantry unit (yes, they really were) in the game just got better. str6 but not vs toughness vs initiative! wow. orks and tau are crying for sure. and the fact they can move in all three movements phases (the only unit in 40k that can) AND move in the opponents shooting phase is just berserk.

Any Jetbike or Jet Pack model is able to to that.

The thing is, the Eldar have almost always been at or near the top of all armies. I got my start in 2nd edition, and even then the Eldar were very good.

Part of the problem is that 40k (and miniature wargames in general) is largely a specialist game. It is invariably true that dedicated units with clear purposes are superior to generalists. In a real war, you need flexibility. In 40k, you want your units to have a clear and simple purpose. You also often get to pay fewer points for the privilege.

When you can give every man in a jetbike squadron a scatterlaser, you have improved the unit twice - first by the increase in the superior weapon, but second the added utility of being able to play the entire unit the same way without any lost effectiveness.

Ultimately I think the hostility towards the new Eldar codex is well deserved. That some of it will end up misdirected at Eldar players is unforunate, but probably unavoidable.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I can use my dive wraithknights now.

Congratulations, this book was written for you and others just like you. Now you need to find each other so you can actually play a game with them.

You realize he said wraithlords, right? Just putting that out there.

Also, I'm getting a little tired of your attitude. You seem to be actively trolling threads in GD and the army lists forum just to berate Eldar players and remind them of how you'll never play games against them, and if I'm not mistaken you even started a thread in TD, not to spark a real discussion but basically just to get people to validate your opinion and agree that 40k was officially dead and that the tournament scene is just utterly broken thanks to Eldar. For the record I agree, the new Eldar codex is bullgak and it really does turn the game on its head, and it was already in a poor state to begin with, so I completely understand the anger and frustration but you're directing it at entirely the wrong people. Games Workshop are the ones that deserve to bear the brunt of your rage, and the Eldar players are as much a victim of their incompetent rules-writing as you are. If anything they're going to suffer worse for it because of people like you. You never have to worry about getting games in when the community considers your army to be sub-par, you're like the underdog and everyone's kinda rooting for you even when they're trying to beat you. No matter how bad it gets you can still actually use all those models you paid out the nose for. Eldar players, who have spent just as much as you have (if not more) are going to be sitting out for yet another edition because of the stigma attached to their codex, which is entirely beyond their control and is solely GW's mistake. You and others have made it painfully clear that the only acceptable course of action for an Eldar player, whether they're defending the new book or not, is to leave their expensive collections on the shelf, and if that's their only army then they're effectively retiring from the game.

No matter how broken the rules are, that's unreasonable and stupid. It's wholly unfair to a large part of the fanbase whose only crime was picking a faction that had really cool-looking models.

It also goes without saying that your whining is kind of funny since, according to your signature, you're the proud owner of at least 2,000 points worth of Tau, which were considered almost just as bad as Eldar before the new Craftworlds codex dropped, and are rumored to be getting a similar update before the end of the year. So I wonder now if all the hate isn't a retaliatory thing because you're angry at people who refused you games based on your army's rules. One thing's for certain, you better not try to defend the new Tau book when it drops after all this abuse you're hurling at Eldar players for trying to defend theirs, or I swear to god I'll follow you around to every thread I can find you in to remind you about how you're WAAC cheese-mongering scum who deserves to have all their models stepped on and thrown in the garbage because you hate fun and exist purely to suck the joy out of others and sow misery and pain among the 40k community.

For the record, I've done the same thing once before, and I kinda lost my gak when GW released Escalation and introduced the revenant titan into regular games, which literally wipes entire armies off the table. Suddenly everyone who owned or wanted to own a really awesome-looking model was a WAAC TFG who wanted to buy easy wins. Thankfully I realized I was being stupid and got over it pretty quick.

Jimsolo wrote:If you think it's too overpowered, then by all means say something. If enough people say it loud enough, in theory developers hear you. (No 60" Serpent Shields of death anymore, yeah?)

To be fair, that's not a very strong argument. It could have been very easily corrected with free errata, but they chose to leave the game in that state for two whole years, then charge people another $60 for a replacement rulebook to fix that one glaring issue...and then obviously created about a billion more issues by making everything else in the book broken.

So, GW kinda listens...but they really kinda don't. So while I think everyone really needs to focus their anger on the company and try to force a change that way, I honestly don't think it would work and GW would keep doing whatever the hell it feels like with no regard whatsoever to the health of the game, the community, or even their own future. So long as we're stuck with the current management I have little hope that GW will do what it needs to do.

Sorry sir, I put my money where my mouth is. I had tau since they first came out, when they were average to poor choices for power. I too liked the look of the army. But then 6th rolled around, I found my games to be far too easy and frustrating for my opponents, and retired them for a good long time. I wouldn't even consider them games, 9/10 I won. Eldar players dont have the "oh its not my fault, they just now became powerful" excuse. They have been borderline broken/top tier since 2nd ed, with a brief period at merely good. And my opinion isnt some fringe crazy opinion that only I have. You have seen countless other people, many whom say the same things as me and as often. My comments sting you more because the way I make my points probably hits a nerve with you, or points out things about your army you dont like to think about. So go ahead and follow me around the board like some crazy person on a vendetta. Its a forum to discuss a game with plastic toy soldiers. If I want to voice my opinion that some things are broken and in need of fixing, or in this case ignoring to make the rest of the game function better I can. In the end only you can keep yourself from looking like a a psycho who has to personally attack an individual because they strongly disagree with your own beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:

ConanMan wrote:

Warp Spiders: wow. the best infantry unit (yes, they really were) in the game just got better. str6 but not vs toughness vs initiative! wow. orks and tau are crying for sure. and the fact they can move in all three movements phases (the only unit in 40k that can) AND move in the opponents shooting phase is just berserk.

Any Jetbike or Jet Pack model is able to to that.

I think he means they can jump when shot at, so movement on your opponents shooting phase, which is pretty new.

Anyone who reviews new codices like Eldar or Necrons without straight up admitting which parts are too powerful is not going to get taken seriously by non-Eldar/necron players.

Look at Steve from MWG. He's straight up said that the codex is too powerful and was pushed in the wrong direction by the update. People on the site are agreeing with him and taking him seriously. Every poster on here who comes on and glosses over all the unneeded buffs to spend more time focusing on the few things that actually have some sort of drawback or nerf gets ridiculed because they are rightfully seen as biased or dishonest.

It's frustrating and a little insulting to have so many grievances with a new codex but constantly see its beneficiaries basically only complain that the WS is no longer a gun boat.

 Orock wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Orock wrote:
I can use my dive wraithknights now.

Congratulations, this book was written for you and others just like you. Now you need to find each other so you can actually play a game with them.

You realize he said wraithlords, right? Just putting that out there.

Also, I'm getting a little tired of your attitude. You seem to be actively trolling threads in GD and the army lists forum just to berate Eldar players and remind them of how you'll never play games against them, and if I'm not mistaken you even started a thread in TD, not to spark a real discussion but basically just to get people to validate your opinion and agree that 40k was officially dead and that the tournament scene is just utterly broken thanks to Eldar. For the record I agree, the new Eldar codex is bullgak and it really does turn the game on its head, and it was already in a poor state to begin with, so I completely understand the anger and frustration but you're directing it at entirely the wrong people. Games Workshop are the ones that deserve to bear the brunt of your rage, and the Eldar players are as much a victim of their incompetent rules-writing as you are. If anything they're going to suffer worse for it because of people like you. You never have to worry about getting games in when the community considers your army to be sub-par, you're like the underdog and everyone's kinda rooting for you even when they're trying to beat you. No matter how bad it gets you can still actually use all those models you paid out the nose for. Eldar players, who have spent just as much as you have (if not more) are going to be sitting out for yet another edition because of the stigma attached to their codex, which is entirely beyond their control and is solely GW's mistake. You and others have made it painfully clear that the only acceptable course of action for an Eldar player, whether they're defending the new book or not, is to leave their expensive collections on the shelf, and if that's their only army then they're effectively retiring from the game.

No matter how broken the rules are, that's unreasonable and stupid. It's wholly unfair to a large part of the fanbase whose only crime was picking a faction that had really cool-looking models.

It also goes without saying that your whining is kind of funny since, according to your signature, you're the proud owner of at least 2,000 points worth of Tau, which were considered almost just as bad as Eldar before the new Craftworlds codex dropped, and are rumored to be getting a similar update before the end of the year. So I wonder now if all the hate isn't a retaliatory thing because you're angry at people who refused you games based on your army's rules. One thing's for certain, you better not try to defend the new Tau book when it drops after all this abuse you're hurling at Eldar players for trying to defend theirs, or I swear to god I'll follow you around to every thread I can find you in to remind you about how you're WAAC cheese-mongering scum who deserves to have all their models stepped on and thrown in the garbage because you hate fun and exist purely to suck the joy out of others and sow misery and pain among the 40k community.

For the record, I've done the same thing once before, and I kinda lost my gak when GW released Escalation and introduced the revenant titan into regular games, which literally wipes entire armies off the table. Suddenly everyone who owned or wanted to own a really awesome-looking model was a WAAC TFG who wanted to buy easy wins. Thankfully I realized I was being stupid and got over it pretty quick.

Jimsolo wrote:If you think it's too overpowered, then by all means say something. If enough people say it loud enough, in theory developers hear you. (No 60" Serpent Shields of death anymore, yeah?)

To be fair, that's not a very strong argument. It could have been very easily corrected with free errata, but they chose to leave the game in that state for two whole years, then charge people another $60 for a replacement rulebook to fix that one glaring issue...and then obviously created about a billion more issues by making everything else in the book broken.

So, GW kinda listens...but they really kinda don't. So while I think everyone really needs to focus their anger on the company and try to force a change that way, I honestly don't think it would work and GW would keep doing whatever the hell it feels like with no regard whatsoever to the health of the game, the community, or even their own future. So long as we're stuck with the current management I have little hope that GW will do what it needs to do.

Sorry sir, I put my money where my mouth is. I had tau since they first came out, when they were average to poor choices for power. I too liked the look of the army. But then 6th rolled around, I found my games to be far too easy and frustrating for my opponents, and retired them for a good long time. I wouldn't even consider them games, 9/10 I won. Eldar players dont have the "oh its not my fault, they just now became powerful" excuse. They have been borderline broken/top tier since 2nd ed, with a brief period at merely good. And my opinion isnt some fringe crazy opinion that only I have. You have seen countless other people, many whom say the same things as me and as often. My comments sting you more because the way I make my points probably hits a nerve with you, or points out things about your army you dont like to think about. So go ahead and follow me around the board like some crazy person on a vendetta. Its a forum to discuss a game with plastic toy soldiers. If I want to voice my opinion that some things are broken and in need of fixing, or in this case ignoring to make the rest of the game function better I can. In the end only you can keep yourself from looking like a a psycho who has to personally attack an individual because they strongly disagree with your own beliefs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:

ConanMan wrote:

Warp Spiders: wow. the best infantry unit (yes, they really were) in the game just got better. str6 but not vs toughness vs initiative! wow. orks and tau are crying for sure. and the fact they can move in all three movements phases (the only unit in 40k that can) AND move in the opponents shooting phase is just berserk.

Any Jetbike or Jet Pack model is able to to that.

I think he means they can jump when shot at, so movement on your opponents shooting phase, which is pretty new.

I only have Eldar and while I have only been playing since 2007 my first models were a wraithlord and 4 howling banshees. I didn't "bandwagon" just because they were powerful. Heck at the time I didn't even know how powerful they were. I liked how the tanks looked and I liked the smooth head of the wraithlord. I still have those models to this day and have not picked up a different army since. Should the blame be put on me that my codex is overpowered? I picked an army that I liked the look of. It just so happened to be Eldar. Just because you are salty about the codex doesn't mean youshould run around We can do without comments like this thank you. Reds8n

I am voicing my opinion on an army choice, and not a specific person. You two are the ones whos whole defense for a poor product is "shut up, or you will make others think the same" which is the whole point. So no, I dont think I will stop. Try pointing out the positives of why the eldar book shouldn't be ridiculed. And if you think others should just shut up and play a game because you basically bought a car without doing research about it first, they may not have the problem.

 Xerics wrote:
I only have Eldar and while I have only been playing since 2007 my first models were a wraithlord and 4 howling banshees. I didn't "bandwagon" just because they were powerful. Heck at the time I didn't even know how powerful they were. I liked how the tanks looked and I liked the smooth head of the wraithlord. I still have those models to this day and have not picked up a different army since. Should the blame be put on me that my codex is overpowered? I picked an army that I liked the look of. It just so happened to be Eldar. .

No, people like you are the real casualties of a horribly balanced book like this. As is often said, poor balance probably hurts fluff and casual players more than competitive.

If I were a tournament player who took the whole thing seriously (I'm not) I'd just go out and buy an Eldar army if it were really so far ahead of anything else (although I'd likely already have one given their history.) I may grumble about the expense, but ultimately that's the price to remain competitive and my choice to do so.

If I were a more casual player who just happened to love the idea of a wraith or Jetbike heavy Eldar list because I liked the fluff or aesthetics, my motives are irrelevant if I put 40 Jetbikes down for a friendly game I'll still look like a bit of a douche.

 Orock wrote:
I am voicing my opinion on an army choice, and not a specific person. You two are the ones whos whole defense for a poor product is "shut up, or you will make others think the same" which is the whole point. So no, I dont think I will stop. Try pointing out the positives of why the eldar book shouldn't be ridiculed. And if you think others should just shut up and play a game because you basically bought a car without doing research about it first, they may not have the problem.

No that's not what my whole point is. You have your opinion. I can respect that. However there is no need to go expressing your opinion to everyone and their mothers just because you don't like a product that a company put out. Most of the time it isn't the players fault. If someone goes out and buys a whole army of Eldar just because they are top tier even though they already have an army that's a whole different story. But at the same time if they want to drop an entire paycheck into Eldar that is their prerogative. Some of us enjoy getting to play our armies once in a while. I don't get many games out where I am at anyways so having some loudmouth like you run around and plaster your opinion across everyone's face doesn't help matters for me or for you for that matter. Is the codex unbalanced? Yes. Am I going to drop a paycheck into a different army because my army is unbalanced? No. Wife has already forbidden the purchase of more Warhammer until my current stuff is all painted anyway and I am pretty loyal to my faction. But I'd still like to play the game.

Before you run around spewing your opinion all over the internet you might want to think of all the innocents you are effecting.