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Bane of the traitor improves my AP by 1 when "used to attack a unit from codex: chaos space marines". Would this ability apply to any army that is fielding "chaos space marines", such as crimson slaughter, daemonkin etc., or would it only work if my opponent was specifically fielding a "chaos space marine army"?

I'm thinking it'd be only if they field chaos marine army, as the chaos marines in the other armies technically aren't the same thing as the models specifically from the chaos codex. You know, not all chaos marines are chaos marines...

At the same time, the daemonkin players I went up against (2 so far) both thought that it "should" still work against them, i.e. HYWPI.

Opinions, previous rulings on the matter, HYWPI vs RAW? Thanks all.

RaW - No, it doesn't work for the reasons you provided.

HIWPI - I'd allow it against units that are in both C:CSM and C:KD, but not against units that are in the Chaos Daemons portion.

RAW: No, does not work. They are not traitors, just traitor-like. The argument here is that because the datasheet in the daemonkin codex is for a different faction the unit is not identical to the one in the chaos marines codex and no argument can be made that the unit is from from the chaos marine book. If however the datasheets where identical we could have a very different discussion.

HIWPI: Yeah, its close enough. The daemonkin units that are essentially re-printed chaos marine units should qualify and if GW got its head out of its ass and wrote FAQs like they should/we need it wouldn't even be a question.

Codex: Chaos Space Marines is not Codex: Khorne Demonkin, so your Bane of the Traitor will not work. No matter if the datasheets in both had the exact same profiles for units, they're still two different Factions. In fact the BRB even uses the example of a Demon Prince - a unit available from both Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Demons - as how a unit from one codex and an identical unit from another codex will still have different Factions.

Supplements to Codex: Chaos Space Marines (like Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter) are a different thing though, since Supplements count as the same Faction as the parent codex. You're still attacking a Codex: Chaos Space Marine unit even if it's in a Crimson Slaughter detachment and therefore you will get the benefit of your Bane of the Traitor.

What about the Inner Circle's Preferred Enemy (Chaos Space Marines)? Formerly clearly meant to apply to the codex, how does that work with Khorne Daemonkin? Just the unit Chaos Space Marines?

same deal, RAW only C CSM

 GoonBandito wrote:
No matter if the datasheets in both had the exact same profiles for units, they're still two different Factions.

Well, no. If they are the exact same profile (I assume you meant datasheet) then they are the same faction because the faction is part of the datasheet. The Daemonkin codex created the daeminkin faction, but it didn't need to. If, instead of using a new faction, they simply reprinted the datasheets found in codex chaos space marine and codex daemons and did not bother to change those factions so the datasheets were in fact identical, then a unit of chaos space marines taken in a daemonkin formation would also qualify as a unit that could be located in codex chaos space marines. Its because the factions are different, and therefor the datashateets are also different that prevents some one from being able make this claim work.

sasquatchalex wrote: same deal, RAW only C CSM

That is not true. RAW whats in the '() 'of preferred enemy is not a faction, but a specific type of foe.. Preferred Enemy (Space Marines) includes blood angels. Blood angels are not the same faction but apparently are the same type of foe. Are the chaos marines int he daemonkin codex the same type of foe as the chaos marines int he chaos marine codex? Well RAW is a big empty gap as we are never given an in game or RAW method of determining what types of foes are the same, but HIWPI is a bug fat yes.

This is one of the bullcrap calls that we dark Angels players have to deal with since our codex came out far before any of the new supplements did. I say yes it counts since demonkin could be seen as a chaos space marine AND demon supplement.

Stalked21 wrote:
This is one of the bullcrap calls that we dark Angels players have to deal with since our codex came out far before any of the new supplements did. I say yes it counts since demonkin could be seen as a chaos space marine AND demon supplement.

Its not a supplement. It is specifically its own codex. It is a unique faction.

RAI would probably benefit when fighting marine units but lose any bonus when fighting daemons on the Daemonkin codex.

But what about when a IC joins a daemon unit or the other way around. The most common will probably be a jugger lord joining a hound unit. The IC becomes part of the hounds unit which is a daemon unit in the codex so probably the DA won't get benefits from their rules.

It's really just for fighting C:CSM armies and their supplements.

Daemonkin are unique, they have elements from C:CSM and C. Bane of the Traitor does not apply against daemons, and these guys mix with them...

FAQ is much needed on this problem. My daemonkins opponent lets me use Traitor's Bane and Inner Circle rules vs CSM part of his army though.