Competetive Builds CSM

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**Mulusy**

Hi everyone Mulusy here

I have been going through big tournament results and one thing can ght my eye... Whenever you see csm in the top ten of the tournament, it always seems to be the same build... Typhus, pleague marines and zombie spam... One time I have seen another build with the great brass skorpion with cultists and raiders. My question is: are there any other builds that are doing good right now? I know CSM are not the ubber guys like eldar and tau but are there any other builds which are fairly competetive?

**SGTPozy**

I think you mean Space Marines , Necons or Daemons rather than Tau as being uber at the moment.

There are many combos that CSM can make using Dqemons and/or Khorne Daemonkin that are really good.

Also, you have Be'lakor who is definitely one of the most OP HQs in the game.

**Sir Arun**

CSM are pretty competitive now when you take the Crimson Slaughter supplement, all the dataslates and Imperial Armor 13 stuff into consideration. It's just that the vanilla codex alone only has 1 good build (Nurgle).

**Makumba**

There were csm at the top of big tournaments this year, could you tell me what scenarios the tournaments used? It could be good for my IG too.

**Mulusy**

what about noise marines slanesh in general?

**Nightlord1987**

Spawn, ML3 Sorcerers with spell familiars, Obliterators, cheap cultists, and then whatever flavor you want added.

The beat stick HQ options are good too, Bike or Mounted Lords, and Nurgle Daemon Princes.

I use two CADS for my CSM lists to get 5 fast slots and 6 individual Obliterators.

Chaos are very much a themed army though, which is why you will often see people playing to the models, not necessarily to the game.

**Slaphead**

I frequently play against my friend's CSM army and the two best performing units in his list that do well and are tough to route out are his deepstriking Obliterators and his Daemon Prince with Axe of Blind Fury. They are an absolute bugger to deal with...

**Sir Arun**

IMO I consider a DP with AoBF a waste as Khorne means you cannot become a psyker and one of the biggest strengths of the DP is his ability to roll on Biomancy upto 2 times and get that much more lethal.

Besides, his base attacks are AP2 at initiative anyway, so the AoBF is less handy than for example on a Chaos Lord.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Sir Arun wrote:
IMO I consider a DP with AoBF a waste as Khorne means you cannot become a psyker and one of the biggest strengths of the DP is his ability to roll on Biomancy upto 2 times and get that much more lethal.

Besides, his base attacks are AP2 at initiative anyway, so the AoBF is less handy than for example on a Chaos Lord.

That said, the Prince actually benefits from one of the rules (Rage). So while he doesn't gain much from AP2, he's hitting more often. With more attacks. At S9 on the charge. That's pretty good.

**Lord Yayula**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sir Arun wrote:
IMO I consider a DP with AoBF a waste as Khorne means you cannot become a psyker and one of the biggest strengths of the DP is his ability to roll on Biomancy upto 2 times and get that much more lethal.

Besides, his base attacks are AP2 at initiative anyway, so the AoBF is less handy than for example on a Chaos Lord.

That said, the Prince actually benefits from one of the rules (Rage). So while he doesn't gain much from AP2, he's hitting more often. With more attacks. At S9 on the charge. That's pretty good.

It also makes him WS8 iirc, which means now he gets hit on 4+ instead of 5+ vs MEQ, that is a HUGE disadvantage when you have 3+/5+ save.

**welshhoppo**

Give him the Black Mace if he must have a special weapon. He takes away the only weakness that weapon has, his smash rule makes it AP2.

But if your playing CSM, use all the dataslates, supplements and IA books that you can.

**kronk**

I know they aren't the most optimal choice, nor do I win a ton of games, but I've always enjoyed my 4x autocannon havocks.

**Sir Arun**

If youre gonna ally daemons, I've found that making the Daemon Prince come from the Chaos Daemons detachment is a better idea - give him daemon of Nurgle for Shroud, and wings as usual, and a Balesword for that lovely insta-kill.

**Nightlord1987**

A (cheapish) way to gain extra attacks on a Daemon Prince is to give them the Slaughterers Horns from the Crimson Slaughter...

Rage and Furious Charge for 15 pts is pretty nifty. I tend to think of it as a guaranteed decent Boon reward....

**SharkoutofWata**

I've seen a really impressive list using Sonic Dreadnaughts, Noise Marines with Blastmasters, a Sorcerer, Daemon Prince, Vindicators and twin Heldrakes. The amount of ranged AP3 was pretty staggering. I expect it would get hit hard by Drop Pod lists though so that might limit it.

**Kajaki War Pig**

I played Broadside Bash in San Diego with my CSMs (first time putting them on the table haha) and performed exceptionally average (Placed 34th out of 50+). I wasn't ready for the 7th Edition tournament scene.

I played a 3 rounder last weekend at Game Empire in Pasadena, and was in the top 5 going into Round three. Then I made poor life choices and lost the game for myself, but it was winnable with my list.

Keys to the build:
-Obliterators. So versatile I consider them a must include
-Bikes, Dreadclaw drop pod, or deep striking units. You have to be able to move fast to take objectives in the last turns of a game. CSM has to play the mission, not try to table the enemy army. Think sneaky.
-Fire Raptor Gunship. IA 13 is a gold mine for making us competitive, and thus sucker has earned at least its points in kills, and only been shot down once in the last 8 games.

Also, sorcerers are kind of a must have. Psychic Shriek is brutal against orks, Monstrous creatures, and things that are hard to kill conventionally.

**koooaei**

Infiltration list with Ahriman/Huron, 20 khornates or slaaneshits and Cypher/Kharn are quite potent.

Besides, murderpack + invisibility or at least shrowding or 4++ are also good.

Most competitive CSM lists utilise daemon allies for WC generation and a bit of summoning.

**Tonberry7**

SGTPozy wrote:
Also, you have Be'lakor who is definitely one of the most OP HQs in the game.

I don't think it's fair to describe Be'lakor as OP. Admittedly he is good, very good if you know how to use him properly, but you also have to pay 350pts to bring him. I'd say he was fairly costed. He's more expensive than a gargantuan Wraithknight with access to D weapons after all.

**ausYenLoWang**

base CSM models to look hard into.

flying daemon prince, BM and some mastery levels and nurgle.

Khorne juggerlord AoBF, unit of khorne spawn.

those are 2 great HQ choices, you can go with any lord really but. maybe a nurgle 1 so your Plague marines are troops.

cultists are ok for their points, but if thats the kind of thing you want, take allied IG they are better and cheaper.

helldrakes are ok. the nerf hit them hard but.

if you want to be fancy IA 13.

recently i ran a close assaulty kinda list. i had

the DP above
lord above with a unit of spawn
3 units of PM in rhinos with 2 specials (i took melta just in case)
2 units cultists
1 unit of Khorne marines. extra CC wep
1 unit of oblits
2 maulerfiends

got into their face on turn 2 with enough dakka from the backline, rhinos to move the PM to objectives or forwards to vehicles. to melta them. not a tourney competitive list but it was a fun change from playing them like pew pew marines