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So, after having read through my codex and seeing how F-ed the BA are due to Hive Fleet Leviathan smashing into their neighboring system, it got me thinking...How screwed is 40k? When I say 40k, I mean the races and factions that represent "order." Namely Tau, Eldar, IoM (I mean individual chapters, systems, etc.) I mean, I was looking at my friend's Tyranids codex and the picture of the hive fleets invading the galaxy...Just wow. So, I'm already assuming that order will be lost to chaos, but which faction do you think will eventually emerge as the undisputed ruler of the galaxy?

The moment the Imperium catches a break, the Tau are screwed by the concentration of power it can bring to bear.

The moment the Imperium diverts troops to eliminate one threat outright, it's screwed by the other threats taking advantage.

The moment Chaos catches a break, it's screwed by falling upon itself.

The moment all the Orks unite, the galaxy is screwed.

Eldar are already screwed.

If the Necrons don't get that ****-ing coffee going soon, they're screwed.

The galaxy is going to end up in a massive, eternal brawl between an infinite number of respawning Tyranids living purely off the detritus of battle, and an infinite number of newborn Orks living off the galaxy's suns.

Unless, of course, the C'tan all tear free of their prisons and eat the suns first, at which point the Orks die off and the 'nids have to find another galaxy and pray their fat stores last long enough.

Chaos already won. The Horus Heresy was a complete and total victory for Chaos as the outcome was what was planned for all along by all four. The Imperium has been plunged into a state of eternal warfare from which it will never escape, and the Chaos Gods now simply reap their harvest for as long as the wish.

The only thing that could make things go really awry is if the C'tan reform, although they still don't seem capable of much given how the warp is like kryptonite to them.

Meh. Warhammer 40k has moved from Grimdark to Nobledark IMHO. Stuff is dark, gloomy and the Edge-o-Meter is all time high, but even in the biggest SHTF scenario you can rely on Random Hero X and his/her cohort to make a difference. The bad guys are cliche mustache-twirling villains (Chaos) or cheap NPCs (Tyranids) - both are only there to show how big damn heroes the good guys are.

So, the good guys are fighting the good fight, the bad guys do what bad guys do, and the rest is pretty much various level of 'meh'-tier grimderp. With skulls. And ancient not-so-evil robots who weaponized honor and justice.

 VulkanKiller wrote:

Spoiler:

Well on the emperors return (warp related or not) 40k will be very screwed. Think about it when She who thirsts was born the warp storms that consumed the galaxy will be like a nuke compared to the big bang when the emperor fully transcends. The entire back bone of humanity will be destroyed in a new bigger eye of terror. Instead of daemons angel legions will come out everything will be crippled and in that moment all nercons will wake , Nids will come like never before , orks will unite and the 13th cursade will get though Candian gate. Nercons knowing that orks will win will unleash the C'tan. Then everything that can't simply be reborn in the warp will die eldar will hide in the webway necrons using old tech to get them. DE will start skullfething everything and the galaxy will BURN!!!! (based on speculation of course)

Lets poke at this, just for fun
1: What is to assume angels/emperor made deamons will come forth? If the emperor is to ascend to chaos god level, then how can we not assume he will be just like the other chaos gods, just as malevolent? (Like the chaos gods are hoping for)
2: How the hell would all crons wake up?! Now a new, bigger eye of terror could have reasonable repercussions against rhe c'tan, but the necrons themselves are not connected to the warp, in anyway. Now of coursr they would want/need to retaliate to this, but if they had a "wake up all the tomb worlds" button, they sure as hell would have used it by now! My personal assumption is that any sensable rulers would release how screwed they were and attempt a mass exodus, probably to a new galaxy entirely. It would take a lot of time even for them to reach that far, but immortality makes that a mute point
3:Why would nids expand from this? Sure, there is plenty of reasoning and rumor of bigger badder fleets coming to terra, but the nids don't exactly have a major presence in the warp, and really wouldn't be directly affected by such an event
4:Just like nids, why would orks suddenly unite? It is reasonable that any ork that finds out would be craxy to reach this new eye of terror to some major krumpping, but that dosen't mean they will overcome their infighting tendencies in the least. Hell, it will probably increase them with just anout every ork trying to become the new biggest warlord on this battlefield
5:It is reasonable that under the pretext, the chaos forces would NOT be able to fight their way out of the EOT. If we are going to assume that emps has his new angel/deamon minions, then chaos would then be fighting on both fronts. The carnage emps could cause on the chaos gods home turf at that point would scare the gak out of them. Besides, I think it would be reasonable to assume at this point the warmaster has already trumped cadia, and may have been cause of the emperors asenction as well. If that is the case, then his forces probably would have been destroyed in the new eot
6:The crons probably wouldn't release the c'tan due to, as stated, they either ran away or the c'tan are so weakened by the new warp explostion that they wouldn't be able to help. Must likely, both of thesr would be true
7ark eldar could be interesting, they wouldn't have much left to prey on at that point, and it would be interesting if some of their more crazy powerful tech could fight against this new hell
All typed of my mobike and I refuse to go through this again on this terrible touch screen to check for grammar/spelling so please try to deal with any mistakes, it mifht fix it later...probably not...i

Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

Say what?

Where's that from?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

Say what?

Where's that from?

Talon of Horus. Beings of fire lay waste to any Chaos taint they can find and scour the rim worlds of anything that walks upon them. The Legion of the Damned are also almost certainly daemons.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

Say what?

Where's that from?

Talon of Horus. Beings of fire lay waste to any Chaos taint they can find and scour the rim worlds of anything that walks upon them. The Legion of the Damned are also almost certainly daemons.

Not to mention individuals like Celestine and the Sanguinor, also almost certainly pseudodaemonic entities.

 Flame-Rage wrote:

 VulkanKiller wrote:

Spoiler:

Well on the emperors return (warp related or not) 40k will be very screwed. Think about it when She who thirsts was born the warp storms that consumed the galaxy will be like a nuke compared to the big bang when the emperor fully transcends. The entire back bone of humanity will be destroyed in a new bigger eye of terror. Instead of daemons angel legions will come out everything will be crippled and in that moment all nercons will wake , Nids will come like never before , orks will unite and the 13th cursade will get though Candian gate. Nercons knowing that orks will win will unleash the C'tan. Then everything that can't simply be reborn in the warp will die eldar will hide in the webway necrons using old tech to get them. DE will start skullfething everything and the galaxy will BURN!!!! (based on speculation of course)

Lets poke at this, just for fun
1: What is to assume angels/emperor made deamons will come forth? If the emperor is to ascend to chaos god level, then how can we not assume he will be just like the other chaos gods, just as malevolent? (Like the chaos gods are hoping for)
2: How the hell would all crons wake up?! Now a new, bigger eye of terror could have reasonable repercussions against rhe c'tan, but the necrons themselves are not connected to the warp, in anyway. Now of coursr they would want/need to retaliate to this, but if they had a "wake up all the tomb worlds" button, they sure as hell would have used it by now! My personal assumption is that any sensable rulers would release how screwed they were and attempt a mass exodus, probably to a new galaxy entirely. It would take a lot of time even for them to reach that far, but immortality makes that a mute point
3:Why would nids expand from this? Sure, there is plenty of reasoning and rumor of bigger badder fleets coming to terra, but the nids don't exactly have a major presence in the warp, and really wouldn't be directly affected by such an event
4:Just like nids, why would orks suddenly unite? It is reasonable that any ork that finds out would be craxy to reach this new eye of terror to some major krumpping, but that dosen't mean they will overcome their infighting tendencies in the least. Hell, it will probably increase them with just anout every ork trying to become the new biggest warlord on this battlefield
5:It is reasonable that under the pretext, the chaos forces would NOT be able to fight their way out of the EOT. If we are going to assume that emps has his new angel/deamon minions, then chaos would then be fighting on both fronts. The carnage emps could cause on the chaos gods home turf at that point would scare the gak out of them. Besides, I think it would be reasonable to assume at this point the warmaster has already trumped cadia, and may have been cause of the emperors asenction as well. If that is the case, then his forces probably would have been destroyed in the new eot
6:The crons probably wouldn't release the c'tan due to, as stated, they either ran away or the c'tan are so weakened by the new warp explostion that they wouldn't be able to help. Must likely, both of thesr would be true
7ark eldar could be interesting, they wouldn't have much left to prey on at that point, and it would be interesting if some of their more crazy powerful tech could fight against this new hell
All typed of my mobike and I refuse to go through this again on this terrible touch screen to check for grammar/spelling so please try to deal with any mistakes, it mifht fix it later...probably not...i

As is said it is based on my speculation. it is what I want/think may happen I didn't say it was set in stone "this is going to happen because I said so" no I said it's what I think MIGHT happen


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

Have they been seen fighting along the forces of order? If not they may as well be Malice daemons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I said that just the possibility of what is going to happen in the End Times and from this conflict the "do you think will eventually emerge as the undisputed ruler of the galaxy?" may emerge.

 VulkanKiller wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

Have they been seen fighting along the forces of order? If not they may as well be Malice daemons.

Celestine and Sanguinor have. The former is effectively an Imperial Daemon Princess, the latter an Imperial Herald.

Lets poke at this, just for fun
1: Well the key thing about the emperor is Compassion and the need for a savior from the prayers of lots of people will shape him to be what they need(hope, loving ect....) (speculation)
2: Necrons have been know to wake by turmoil on the surface of the tomb worlds they will be a lot of poop happening by this point. (speculation)
3:I didn't say anything related to them being effected by the warp just saying in the battle for the galaxy they would make an increase elevated presence (speculation)
4: The huge influx of fighting will cause the best ork to gain orky energy calling more to his command making them semi if not completely united. (speculation)
5: The 13th black crusade (before recalled) ended with abby almost controling it and with the fall of the sol(ar) system humanity will be severely weakened uprising will happen everywhere causing the military might to be expended. (speculation)
6: They first turned to the C'tan to win an winnable war they might do so again. (speculation)
7: Dark eldar will 100% surely mobilize (unless vect and lady start a civil war) to prey on the weakened imperium and the just go back to the webway to do darkeldarly things.(speculation)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 VulkanKiller wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Uh, the Emperor already has his own daemons. Angels of fire besiege the Eye of Terror constantly, purging its outer worlds of all taint.

Have they been seen fighting along the forces of order? If not they may as well be Malice daemons.

Celestine and Sanguinor have. The former is effectively an Imperial Daemon Princess, the latter an Imperial Herald.

I primarily meant the Angels of Fire (sorry for the mistake) but can you provide a link about Celesine I never know about her and I'm very interested.

 VulkanKiller wrote:

I primarily meant the Angels of Fire (sorry for the mistake) but can you provide a link about Celesine I never know about him and I'm very interested.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saint_Celestine

Thanks.

It's "her". Saint Celestine is a woman.

To the OP's question: Very. These are the tales of the End of Times. This is the twilight of Mankind.

On a scale from 1 to 10

We are at code brown

Literally everyone is chipping away at the imperium. and every single one besides TAU for now have a devastating end game.

I swear you edited that part in... ...
heh, regardless, I meant absolutely no offence and was simply injecting my opinion based on yours, and meant in no way to infringe on the validity of your opinions. I was using simple evidence from general fluff to explain my point of view better

VulkanKiller wrote:Lets poke at this, just for fun
1: Well the key thing about the emperor is Compassion and the need for a savior from the prayers of lots of people will shape him to be what they need(hope, loving ect....) (speculation)
2: Necrons have been know to wake by turmoil on the surface of the tomb worlds they will be a lot of poop happening by this point. (speculation)
3:I didn't say anything related to them being effected by the warp just saying in the battle for the galaxy they would make an increase elevated presence (speculation)
4: The huge influx of fighting will cause the best ork to gain orky energy calling more to his command making them semi if not completely united. (speculation)
5: The 13th black crusade (before recalled) ended with abby almost controling it and with the fall of the sol(ar) system humanity will be severely weakened uprising will happen everywhere causing the military might to be expended. (speculation)
6: They first turned to the C'tan to win an winnable war they might do so again. (speculation)
7: Dark eldar will 100% surely mobilize (unless vect and lady start a civil war) to prey on the weakened imperium and the just go back to the webway to do darkeldarly things.(speculation)

Making that first remark emulating my own is rather sny, but I will let it pass due to your belief I was trying to belittle your opinion
Getting on to the points then, time for my remarks to, well, your remarks, about my remarks, about your remarks.....
ANYWAYS
1: Of course and I personally believe he would be a merciful god above, but my reasoning for thinking that he could possibly become malevolent revolves around the nature of chaos (being quite the opposite of the order he upholds), this could twist and influence his higher spirit when it becomes one with the warp, leading to unpredictable results. Another thing to analyze is the creation of slanhesh. The acts of the eldar were not in and of themselves malevolence, but the extreme of them is both what twists he emotions into a self destructive force (oversensation leading to numbing) and allows it to ascended into a sentient being through the power of the warp (aka space magic). So, for the Emperor to be able to ascend to the warp he would have to reach such an extreme of the emotions he upholds as that did for slannesh. This leads us back to "too much of a good thing being bad" and the aspect the emperor upholds, more than anything (as far as I can tell) is the betterment of humanity as the superior species of the galaxy through continued order, and any means necessary to achieve that order. To put it simply, the god emperor could become overbearing in his position as the new chaos god and create a dystopian control over the galaxy, similar to the one already in place by the imperium, but now over seen and micro managed to the last detail by almighty space jesus.

The only other point I would have much to say about would be 6, as I still stand by my opinion that the C'tan would be to weakened by the sudden warp explosion to actually do anything.

Desubot wrote:
Literally everyone is chipping away at the imperium. and every single one besides TAU for now have a devastating end game.

I see a Tau end game being very simple: They deny everything until the galaxy is literally collapsing around them, then they simply die from panic. Much laughter is shared among the chaos gods and good times are had by all

It could be said everything is........



For 40k

Compassion and a need for a savior are Nurgle things.

40K has a puritanical worldview, or at least did when it was actually grimdark. All emotions feed chaos.

Just because the embodiment of Nurgle is compassionate, after a fashion, does not mean that is part of his portfolio. It isn't, of course, he's the god of plagues and disease. Nurgle feeds on all those suffering from sickness, and the grim fatalism and will to survive that is born in such beings.

Just because his Great Unclean Ones and, supposedly, himself are avuncular and jovial does not make him the god of dad-jokes and belly-laughs.

Pre-Fall Eldar were plenty fethed up. Malevolence was the least of their sins against the galaxy. The Dark Eldar are what the Eldar were like towards the end of their empire, and they are cruel beyond belief.

Just to be clear, the forces of order actually includes the Tyranids, Necrons, Orks, Eldar, Tau, etc. Every faction except the Chaos Daemons, Chaos Space Marines, and ironically the Imperium of Man for the next ~10k years, which acts as a giant warp polluting factory for the chaos gods, are all on the opposite side of Chaos. ie by definition on the side of Order.

The actual groups in 40k are;
1) Chaos
2) Imperium of Man
3) Tyranids
4) Necrons
5) Eldar (Dark and Craftworld varieties)
6) Orks
7) Tau
8+ A large variety of super hostile races some of which are massively more powerful than those above, ie Enslavers

This is a common mistake usually made by players that also play fantasy. The Chaos vs Order lines in 40k are vastly less important than preserving your species in 40k. CWE doesn't care if they have to sacrifice a million planets of humans to save a craftworld or keep non eldar out of the webways. IoM actually wants to exterminate all xenos and are willing to employ forces and weapons infused with chaos to do so, daemon possessed.

There are actually several amusing self contradictions which trap all of the factions in a constant state of doom.
*Heros arise yet every time a hero "solves" the problem they inevitably sacrifice vastly more assets than could be afforded. The UM stop a hive fleet but completely destroy important planets and irreplaceable ships. Chaos is stopped but a system is purged to do it, not to mention millions of Imperial Guard. The heros of 40K are propaganda heros in the truest sense of the word, they accomplish nothing and often worsen the problems.
*Essentially every factions has the ability to go uber and crush the other factions. However each of the factions has some key portion of their situation or nature which cripples them and keeps them in a never ending spiral of decay and war.

BTW Eldar as a faction actually do have the ability to come back and reclaim the galaxy. They just need to either find and reawaken their wraithbone armies (armies so powerful they could completely ignore the age of darkness humans, ie the most technologically advanced humans ever got in 40k). The wraithbone construct armies have occasionally been found or farseers have acted to keep others from discovering them in 40k fluff.

Has anyone read Lord Lucan's Age of Dusk 60K fanfiction? It is of extremely high quality and covers almost every Factions End Game and how it plays out in his head. Quick Synopsis:

Cypher kills the Emperor. Emperor ascends to godhood as the Star Father, the Chaos God of Obedience. The other Gods at first mob him, realize he is now part of the firmament and simply include him in the great game. His has Armies of Gold Masked Metal Winged Angyls and has powerful Daemon Princes such as Kaldor Draigo, Sabastian Thor and Celestein.

Imperium fractures without Astrominicion, breaking into thousands of petty realms each gaining and losing dominance, but none actually making a name for themselves. Eventually Valkan, Corax and Russ come back and create their own Imperium which is standing strong.

Necrons are basically: The Void Dragon Wakes Up. And he goes ape, having unstoppable legions of the most technological force in the galaxy. Unfortunately he is trapped in the Mini Eye of Terra based around the Terran Hells, but he periodically purges *everything* in the entire system. He eventually gets out and is slowly purging everything he comes across. He comes across the Tau's new meta empire (Much bigger then currently, defended by Fleets of unmanned drone ships) which slows him down, but he crushes it. Harlequins help evacuate the tau from T'au into the webway to the surviving farsite enclaves.

Eldar mostly commit ritual suicide. Only Biel-Tan stands strong, the last bastion, but it is the single most powerful ship in the galaxy, having grown as almost all surviving Eldar flock to it. Currently undersiege by the new Warmaster Huron Blackheart, but it is making a good account of itself. The Phoenix Lords are playing there hand, and all are MAJOR players in the End Times. Each accomplishing impossible tasks to recover the ''Wraithbone Choirs'' of each destroyed Craftworld, when they are all found Ynnead will be freed.

Commarragh is the largest and most populace place in existance, and just gets bigger. It's a thriving and Vect has been enjoying fending off Assassinations as more and more riches come into the Dark City. But apparently Vect's Dark Eldar have been playing havoc on to many of Cegorarchs plans, who, as ''Land Lord'' of the Webway puts Vect and most of Commarragh behind bars. And by that i mean Aelindrach, the Mandrakes and all their Cthulu-esque allies invade in the ''The War within the Shadows'' to keep Vect busy while the Harlequins get their act together. He swears vengence on Cegorarch.

Cegorarch has his own plans, still don't know what they are, but it's big. He has been manipulating the Tau since their inception, he has control over most of the Dark Eldar through Lady Malys (Still 50/50 with Vect), is using the Hrud as a galaxy wide Spy System and he Lead Ghazskull into the Webway. When he came out, he lead a WAAAGHH! of Krorks, the original smart, 15ft Tall super advanced orks created to fight the necrons. Korks are the only force that can hold back the Necrons, and they also exterminate the survivine Orks, who have been in a constant meat grinder with Tyrands for an age.

But there is one more player, the Emperor. Before the Emperor killed Horus, he cast out his Compassion. This Compassion is within the Webway making an army of the Imeriums Heroes by using the Webway to snatch them out of time. He currently is working with Cypher, the Custodes and the Grey Knights. He plans to ceise godhood himself, but we aren't sure how.

I can only recommend it. Black Library Bolthole, Age of Dusk. Warhammer 60K.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Has anyone read Lord Lucan's Age of Dusk 60K fanfiction? It is of extremely high quality and covers almost every Factions End Game and how it plays out in his head. Quick Synopsis:

Link? That actually sounds cool as feth.

http://www.thebolthole.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=231

It's rather long and daunting with many many pages. But on page 64 there is a downloadable media file that contains the entire chronicle up to that point. I'd recommend this because the Fanfiction is 356 (!!!!!!) pages long, but the file has an index to which chapters are on what pages making it much more manageable.

Seems more like its just meh, nobody is going far, without something going wrong or just being crap. Especially the Imperium and Mr. Failbaddon.

As long as the Orks are bashing stuff, nobody is really going to win all the things.

IMO the fluffy doldrums that is the state of the galaxy in 40k reflects the impotence, incompetence, and indifference of the ultimate deciders of the IP.

Nobody is doing anything on a large scale, or even a medium scale. No new, exciting, or clever things happening from any race/faction.

aw_man wrote:
Seems more like its just meh, nobody is going far, without something going wrong or just being crap. Especially the Imperium and Mr. Failbaddon.

As long as the Orks are bashing stuff, nobody is really going to win all the things.

IMO the fluffy doldrums that is the state of the galaxy in 40k reflects the impotence, incompetence, and indifference of the ultimate deciders of the IP.

Nobody is doing anything on a large scale, or even a medium scale. No new, exciting, or clever things happening from any race/faction.

It's not supposed to. It's a setting, not a story. The evolution of events in the setting are for you and the people you game with to decide through campaign scenarios and such. GW simply provides the backdrop.

 Psienesis wrote:

aw_man wrote:
Seems more like its just meh, nobody is going far, without something going wrong or just being crap. Especially the Imperium and Mr. Failbaddon.

As long as the Orks are bashing stuff, nobody is really going to win all the things.

IMO the fluffy doldrums that is the state of the galaxy in 40k reflects the impotence, incompetence, and indifference of the ultimate deciders of the IP.

Nobody is doing anything on a large scale, or even a medium scale. No new, exciting, or clever things happening from any race/faction.

It's not supposed to. It's a setting, not a story. The evolution of events in the setting are for you and the people you game with to decide through campaign scenarios and such. GW simply provides the backdrop.

Settings are capable of advancing, see things like Faerun, Greyhawk, or Fantasy Battle.

But given the debacle of Fantasy Battle's end times, the question is, would you really trust anyone in GW with it when most of them can't distinguish their keyboards from their asscheeks?

D&D always had a long-running story paired with their campaign worlds, as demonstrated in a pile of novels and other tie-in products.

40K isn't designed that way. The whole point, as shown with in-universe quotes such as "the life of any man, no matter how great, is but a ripple in the pond of the galaxy", and backed further by the statements that all the books, Codices, publications, etc are filled with "lies, myths, rumors, and half-truths", indicates that it is up to the individual players to decide what is and what is not "true" in their version of the setting.

Even BL takes this to heart. The individual authors are allowed to interpret the setting to fit what tells a better story, rather than be forced to adhere to some sort of "canon". That is how, for example, you get powerful psykers (like Eisenhorn and Ravenor) who have never been to Terra for a Sanctioning Rite, or servitors who crack wise, display the full range of human emotion, and are otherwise nothing more than cybernetically-enhanced people... rather than lobotomized automatons.

Having a "story", with plot progression and events happening along a timeline that impacts later events and so on, requires there to be a "canon", an established "this thing here definitely happened, these characters definitely died (or lived) and then they went on to do these things over here"... but that isn't how 40K works. There is no canon, there are very, very few "absolute truths" to the setting (and those things that are absolute truths are the most-basic of things: there's the Emperor on the Golden Throne, the Space Marines are all male, genetically-enhanced super-warriors, there's Chaos, there's the various Xenos, Blood Angels wear red and Ultramarines wear blue. That's about it.)

 Psienesis wrote:
(*Snip what you've said thirty billion times already*)

The question I asked that you ignored was, would you trust GW to advance the plot given what they did to their other largely static setting when they finally decided to kick it into gear?

(The correct answer is no)

The reason why I snipped through all of that is because you can talk about intention or design all you want but GW isn't intelligent enough to have a master plan and will gladly feth up everything for short term profit.