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Does the scale shift bother you?
Yes
No
Yes, but not significantly enough to cease purchasing.
I am not overly bothered one way or the other.

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Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

It started up when they began releasing blisters for models designed digitally and became a major issue(for me at least) when it resulted in the scarcely a year old Corregidor starter pack and the associated blisters that went with the redesign(Intruder with MULTI Sniper Rifle, Hellcat with Boarding Shotgun, Hellcat Hacker and HMG double blister, Wildcat with Spitfire, Wildcat with Heavy Rocket Launcher) and to an extent it also affects the Gecko and Iguana TAGs that were released as part of the Corregidor redesign.

This is an example of the issue, with a Wildcat(Medium Infantry) from the Corregidor starter set next to an Alguacil from the standard Nomad boxed set.
Spoiler:



On a personal note, this is very frustrating to me as I waited a significant amount of time for the Corregidor starter pack to come out before fully committing to building a large Corregidor collection. I was excited to be able to start a force, essentially from the ground-up, with the mindset of "I might have to wait for the line to get fully fleshed out--but it will be CONSISTENT!". So if I personally seem exceedingly bitter about the whole deal, it is because of the money I spent on what was portrayed as the new design only to have the new design further messed with.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries






I guess if the issues were with the same members of a link team being in different scale, then yeah, it'd be a problem. IRL some people are shorter and some people are freakishly tall, so it doesn't really bother me at all to see that kind of disparity in a miniature game

5k
2.5k 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

For me, the issue isn't simply a difference in heights.

It's a difference in proportions. That Wildcat is Medium Infantry, wearing an up-armored void suit while the Alguacil is Light Infantry wearing a jumpsuit and what amounts to a kevlar vest.

Then take into consideration as well that the entirety of the Corregidor range prior to Icestorm was done in that same set of proportions and it just becomes infuriating to someone who it bothers and who spent a large amount of money into building up a force when the Corregidor range saw its revamp.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries






honestly, I can see your issues with it: it's just not that big of a deal to me. The change of rifle design on the nomads from old to new is more of an issue: the two look almost nothing alike

5k
2.5k 
   
Made in fr
Aquatic Kamua






For me the scale shift is a total disaster,
i' ve keep whining about this in the french forum, some are are in my side but most dont care because the infinity minis are "too hard to paint" so the bigger the better

as a guy who make only conversion (see my sig below), mismatch minis just kill my interest for the game, I have to buy 5 mini to get a conversion done ...
(and i'm not talking about the disaster 2: the quality loss due 3D sculpt that is terrible)
The saddest part is, even now with the bad 3D sculpt, the scale is still a joke ! Example: The father knight is bigger than the ORCO, why ??: just because reasons ... or I'm a 12 y. kid, I love big BIG armors and stuff

So i will probably never buy another 3D sculpt era mini. Hopefully, I have a lot of mini to paint

feth you CB !!!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/15 15:03:48


   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







I can definitely see:

1) The Problem

and

2) Why people have a problem with it!

I wish CB hadn't done it, but the horse is out of the barn now, sadly.

I just hope things aren't going to get much/any bigger when it comes to LI/MI/HI.
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

It doesn't bother me, but I can see how it could do if you were half-way through a force and had already bought in some minis.

For me, the biggest difference in my own collection is with the Haqq Djanbazan, specifically between the rifleman/sniper and the hacker. But, it's mitigated by the hacker being a female, and.. well, I can imagine the rifle guys being more regular at the gym and being physically bigger ! So even using them alongside each other on the tabletop, it's a not a problem.

I think that's also an important differentiation, whether you are collecting primarily for modelling/painting or for gaming. It's probably less of a concern if your focus is on the latter.

Sangarn - sorry to hear that, I love seeing your conversions so hope you don't stop doing them altogether !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/15 16:46:37


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Excellent discussion forum & information collection for Epic and other small scale miniatures: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php
 
   
Made in gb
Zealous Shaolin




England

I haven't voted, because my issue with it is too particular: it bothers me specifically in the case of Corregidor.

With older lines, I'm OK with it. There's always the hope that we'll get shiny new versions of smaller older models before too long.

The Corregidor stuff was part of the new modern redesigns, and there's some real beautiful stuff in there (especially the Wildcats). And now there's a size difference. A mere year on.

This wasn't just the odd model, this was a whole new line for a specific sectorial, designed to bring it up-to-date, whose scaling is now suspect due to bodged planning.

It's not like the Hac Tao, which got a redesign and then a speedy re-redesign after N3. They're probably not going to expend the effort to rescale a whole subsection of models (and even if they did, those who purchased all the initial redesigns will still be annoyed). No, I think we'll be stuck with Li'l Wildcats for a while.

That's what bugs me. The scaling issue itself isn't such a huge deal for me (Infinity has a history of wildly varying armour size/thickness); it's mainly just the principal of it, the fact that this has affected such a recent faction redesign, as opposed to older/individual models. With better planning, it needn't have been this way.
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






Atlease it aint as bad as Warzone

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Hiding behind terrain

I voted yes in the poll. The bulkiness is starting to bother me when everyone of the new nomads has the torso of the hulk. I like the proportions on my MS and CR intruders and wont be getting their roid raging brother.

I also liked the comparison in the news thread being of the tiger soldier and the father knight from O:I. I remember reading that father knight was purposely enlarged to be more imposing as the hero figure of O:I. Not the best thing to then base comparisons on throughout the rest of the range in my opinion.
   
Made in gb
Sniping Hexa





SW UK

It does tend to bother me with light and medium infantry, my bolts and icstorm fusiliers now look like giants compared with my order sergeants for example. However I actualy prefer it with heavy infantry, the added hieght and bulkiness realy gives the feeling of heavy powered armour. That being said, the scale shift seems far more noticable in some factions, especialy in the nomads example given.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:All I can say is... thank you vodo40k...

Zweischneid wrote:No way man. A Space Marine in itself is scary. But a Marine WITHOUT helmet wears at least 3-times as much plot-armour as a Marine with helmet. And heaven forbid if the Marine would also happen to have an intimidating looking, vertical scar. Then you're surly boned. Those guys are the worst. Not a chance I'd say.

 
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Just got the new Azra'il and he is BIG. Much, much bigger than the last miniature.

Although, arguably he now fits the description of what the unit should be in the background blurb.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
Excellent discussion forum & information collection for Epic and other small scale miniatures: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php
 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Pacific wrote:
Just got the new Azra'il and he is BIG. Much, much bigger than the last miniature.

Although, arguably he now fits the description of what the unit should be in the background blurb.


Bostria said that the original Azra'il was so small because the sculptor simply got it wrong. It was always meant to be as big as it is now (as the unit fluff describes).

Personally, none of this bothers me, though I can't definitely see why it bothers others. Infinity has gone through 4 scale changes now. 1st editions 28mm heroic, early Human Spheres 28mm truescale and proper proportions with heroic guns, late Human Sphere/Paradisos 28mm true scale with properly proportioned guns and now it seems N3's closer to 30mm truescale with guns proportioned 'as suits the model'.

Later today I'll put up a photo of my favorite scale issue, which is guns. I can personally handwave height and bulk as physical differences, since humans are phsyciallly different. But guns shouldn't be changing. I've got 3 models from 3 different phases of Infinity with boarding shotguns and the differences are hilariously huge. Guns shouldn't change, but they do, moreso than the stature of the person holding them

But none of it still bothers me since once I've painted a model, it goes into a case and stays there until I put it on a table, and by then I really don't care anyway if a gun is bigger or smaller or a model is tall and lanky or short and dumpy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/17 01:39:03


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I prefer the newer larger models


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
Made in fr
Aquatic Kamua






Girl's guns are smaller ... because you now ... they are smaller ><

   
Made in au
Norn Queen








That's 3 Boarding Shotguns. The Fiday is late N2, early HS era. The Farzan is mid to late HS era. The Sekban is Paradiso era. All 3 are hilariously different, but if you look closely, the design is not different. It's just shrinking. The Farzans even has an underslung Contender and is still smaller than the Fidays.
   
Made in gb
Yu Jing Martial Arts Ninja




North Wales

I can quite easily reconcile the weapon size differences in my mind by realising that there are different models and manufacturers of the weapons.

Today, we have M16s, M4s, enough varieties of the AK model to make the peanut butter shelf of my local supermarket look limited.

Are there going to be performance differences between the guns? Sure.

Big enough differences to affect game stats? Probably not.

So, if a lady likes to use a smaller, lighter model because she's more comfortable with the way it handles, cool. If a bloke wants the super-XL model because he needs to compensate for something, that's cool as well.

I am at peace with this concept. My world is a calm, wide ocean...
   
Made in gb
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Ah, that's interesting to know Loki.

 Sangarn wrote:
Girl's guns are smaller ... because you now ... they are smaller ><


Do you know it's quite common to get tennis rackets and golf clubs that are sized appropriately for women?

Imagining some of the advanced production methods of the future, with direct CAD plan -> 3D printing of all items in minutes, why not create weapons that a smaller woman can comfortably hold and fire?

Now, I know I am explaining CB's sculpting decisions with my own explanations (which probably weren't even considered by the sculptor) but I think you could certainly make an argument for it !

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
Excellent discussion forum & information collection for Epic and other small scale miniatures: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/index.php
 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






Those are some good points. I'm now getting comfortable enough to write those gun sizes off as well.

All is at peace for me then, regarding scale differences.
   
Made in si
Skillful Swordmaster





I have a grudge on the bulky heavy armour. I imagine that in the future, we will have lighter designs, particularly since I believe it goes against the lean philosophy of PanOceania. Rather than rigid plates attached on another layer of plates. Admittedly, I find the design of Father Knight to be overly simplistic. The "heroic" scale doesn't do anything to rekindle my interest.

I was probably in the minority that wasn't overly bothered by PanO design of guns or few other things. I simply found the scale to be slightly off. I don't mind the new design, however that does mean I have older miniatures, largely from Acontecimento collection that are very different from the new series.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/17 08:58:02


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






As an owner of a Corr sectoral dwarf army I am firmly in the yes camp and will not be buying any further models from cb.

I also don't like the poor use of copy and paste 3d modelling, the oversimplification of sculpts because previous models had to much detail and all the other poor excuses given, to hide the fact they went to computer based sculpting while having no competent users of that medium.

I think cb underestimates how many people got into infinity because of the amazing models. While now we have models with poor posing (rage fist, tactical rock), limited detail and the build of a catachen guardsman.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in ie
Sniping Hexa




Dublin

People come in different sizes
Guns come in different sizes
You can't see it when they're on the battlefield
You can see it when you put them next to each other on your painting table and ... and they have different sizes ? One's big and one's small ... sooo ... it's actually normal

I quite often mix & match ranges within the same unit for historical miniatures and it looks good (if you pick the same kind of guys, obviously), I mix & match various eras of rats within my Skaven units and they look good (for rats)

People should stop freaking out for things in miniatures games that are actually pretty normal in the real world

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

People do come in different sizes, but they don't shrink when they put on layers of armor plating.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Oklahoma City

I don't know if this is really the appropriate place to bring this up, but I'm wondering if the 32mm scale metal miniatures from Human Interface - Nakamura Tower (board game on Kickstarter) might be appropriate subs/proxies for Infinity miniatures?

They seem to be the appropriate proportions (read: not "heroic" scale) but they might be too large or too small if the scale-creep is really as pronounced as people say it is. I don't own the suspect miniatures so I don't know.

There aren't really any appropriate scale comparison pictures to use to measure against, as opposed to Maelstrom's Edge which has plenty of shots comparing the scale of its minis against other brands' minis and standard rulers, but here are some good shots of what the models might look like on the tabletop


All credit to Postindustrial Games of course.

and here's the kickstarter address if anyone wants to do some more exact analysis and professional eyeballing
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower

if this works, getting a great brand new game and 35+ minis to use for Infinity for 150ish dollars is a great deal. So what do you guys think?

Also, shameless promote: you should all pledge so I... uh... *we* can get my... er... *our* sweet sweet stretch goals

Proud supporter of


It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
-Gabriel Angelos 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 TanKoL wrote:
People come in different sizes
Guns come in different sizes
You can't see it when they're on the battlefield
You can see it when you put them next to each other on your painting table and ... and they have different sizes ? One's big and one's small ... sooo ... it's actually normal

I quite often mix & match ranges within the same unit for historical miniatures and it looks good (if you pick the same kind of guys, obviously), I mix & match various eras of rats within my Skaven units and they look good (for rats)

People should stop freaking out for things in miniatures games that are actually pretty normal in the real world


Yes but the difference in how tall they are is only part of it, the new LI models head is bigger than the waist of the MI and all the other sculpts as well. Hell the new LI is only slightly smaller than our tags.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






I really don't see a problem. People from different walks of life tend to be smaller or bigger. Its all genetics

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I really don't see a problem. People from different walks of life tend to be smaller or bigger. Its all genetics

I don't think you quite understand the issue then.

This has nothing to do with genetics in this case. It's also not one would expect from dimorphism. It's the difference between neanderthal and homo sapiens.
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





Near London, UK

I've had this argument with you before.

That Wildcat was small in comparison to the rest of the range even when it was released, and a combined PanO/Nomad starter couldn't take its sizing lead from just the Corregidor starter rather than the wider spectrum of the range.
But as compared to a selection of Paradiso era models, which you once insisted there had been a scale creep since...



... and some of those are shorter by one pair of combat heels.

Yes, there has been some shift in the styling of the models, but the range as a whole has not leapt upwards by entire head heights and that Wildcat is still a disingenuous yardstick to use.

DR:80S(GT)G(FAQ)M++++B++I+Pinq01/f+D++A++/sWD236R++++T(S)DM+
Project log - Leander, 54mm scale Mars pattern Warhound titan 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Right behind you.

And yet that Wildcat is in line with the vast majority of Paradiso/Human Sphere releases, so my point is far more valid than you seem to realize.
Line the Wildcat up with any model from HS/CP and he fits in better than your conversions would.
It's also important to remember that the issue is not simply that the "Corregidor starter set is too small" but rather this factor is present:

CORREGIDOR WAS IN THE MIDST OF BEING REDESIGNED FROM THE GROUND-UP TO BE A FLAGSHIP RANGE, AND CORVUS BELLI DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO ENSURE CONSISTENCY

Oh, and stop pretending that height is the only factor. Compare the bulk of any of those models and come back to this thread.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/18 17:00:03


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



McKinney, TX

I don't really mind the change to the models. However, since I have started a new Caledonians, they look really small. I attribute this to the possibility that Araidna might be a heavier gravity world and the successive generations since the initial landing has changed things. Right now I'm rather hesitant to get anything new. That's not really horrible since I have so much to paint.
   
 
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