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The title really says it all. Guard, IKs, and Mechanicus should be Allies of convenience with Chaos. Guard should be Allies of Convenience with Tau (maybe they are? I don't know and I don't have my book on me. ).

I wouldn't mind some consideration made for Ork Blood Axe alliances with Imperials (though I haven't seen that in the more recent fluff).

Will they ever do it?

Short answer: No.

Long answers: They already did. Forge your own narrative and change the rules to suit your needs.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Short answer: No.

Long answers: They already did. Forge your own narrative and change the rules to suit your needs.

I'll forge a narrative.

"Once upon a time, GW cared. Then they stopped caring. I keep buying their crap anyway. The end."

GW won't do it as they love the IoM way too much to let others into their special ally club.

Regarding Heretics, they did come out with the IA book on that where you can use Heretics, book is expensive, like all FW stuff, but does have rules for Heretics.

We do not account for heretics. We do not negotiate with heretics. We just kill them all. With prejudice.

I don't count forgeworld. Mail order only. Not allowed in my local tourneys. Frequently poo-pooed by opponents.

It's good for some, but not worth my time or money.

Short answer: NOPE!

Long answer: No, because remember that it isn't as simple as making them "Allies of Convenience" or things of that nature. One warband might treat their Dark Mechanicus(which is a TOTALLY different thing to the Skitarii and Cult units we're seeing coming out now btw. Dark Mechanicus is not stagnant, waiting for rediscoveries of old tech. They're actively creating new things whether by tinkering with the technology itself or saying "Hey, maybe if we bound a Daemon into it...") and Cultists/Renegade Guard entirely different than another.

By that same vein, some Cultist/Renegade Guard might view their Astartes masters and commanders as living embodiments of the Dark Gods and venerate them while others might fear them.

And Tau really don't need Allies of Convenience with Guard.

That might be the reason they have the chart like that, encouraging people to buy the FW heretics book, help line FW's pockets.

Why don't Tau need Allies of Convenience with Guard?

oz of the north wrote:
That might be the reason they have the chart like that, encouraging people to buy the FW heretics book, help line FW's pockets.

The chart was done quite a decent amount of time before FW's book, and really it doesn't change the Allies chart. It essentially adds an entirely new army list which is its own thing and puts that list as Allies.


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SGTPozy wrote:
Why don't Tau need Allies of Convenience with Guard?

Cheap, mechanized troop choices with a good transport that can lay down significant fire is not something Tau need.

You could say the same about all of the Space Marine variants; why do Space Wolves need to ally with Blood Angels when they're both power armor close-combat oriented guys.

SGTPozy wrote:
You could say the same about all of the Space Marine variants; why do Space Wolves need to ally with Blood Angels when they're both power armor close-combat oriented guys.

Yeah, that's not anywhere near the same thing.

How is it not? My example includes two armies that are 90% the same, your example includes two armies that only have shooting in common...

SGTPozy wrote:
How is it not? My example includes two armies that are 90% the same, your example includes two armies that only have shooting in common...

What those armies bring to the table are how it is different.

A unit of Guard Veterans mounted in a Chimera, outfitted with Melta Guns is something that faaaaaaar exceeds what Tau can put down as Troop choices.

Not really; Tau can bring suits as troops in FE and Kroot can have aitocannon equivalents in their squads... So it doesn't really exceed it.

You could say the same thing about White Scar Grav bikers far exceed Blood Angel tactical marines

No, because it would make too much sense.

Better question, why do they need allies of convenience with IG?

lustigjh wrote:
Better question, why do they need allies of convenience with IG?

The same reason why Space Wolves need to be battle brothers with Blood Angels; it is fluffy.

Usually at most flgs like mine most people won't care if you run them side by side as allies of convenience. Most people have a reason why their armies would be fighting along side one another, especially if it was a fluff built reason.

Heck, in most 2v2's at stores you'll see 'Come the Apocalypse' armies teaming up against other armies.

Point being, as long as you aren't casting psychics on one another or considering yourselves "Friendly" models to one another it shouldn't matter.

Now at tournaments I'm sure this is a whole different issue.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I don't count forgeworld. Mail order only. Not allowed in my local tourneys. Frequently poo-pooed by opponents.

It's good for some, but not worth my time or money.

Then the odds of you seeing something accounting for heretics, gene-stealer cults, Alpha Legion plants, Mind-Shackled planetary leaders, or anything of the sort are pretty long.

SGTPozy wrote:

lustigjh wrote:
Better question, why do they need allies of convenience with IG?

The same reason why Space Wolves need to be battle brothers with Blood Angels; it is fluffy.

Except it's really not.

There are SOME instances where it's a case of "Hey, let's all be buddies!" but in the main it's very much antagonistic between the Guard and Tau.

 Kanluwen wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

lustigjh wrote:
Better question, why do they need allies of convenience with IG?

The same reason why Space Wolves need to be battle brothers with Blood Angels; it is fluffy.

Except it's really not.

There are SOME instances where it's a case of "Hey, let's all be buddies!" but in the main it's very much antagonistic between the Guard and Tau.

this, fact is Codex: Astra Millitarium is designed to account for LOYALIST Imperial Guard regiments.

Not the Lost and the Damnned (which incidently there are some whispers GW might put out a 'dex for em) and not Tau Human Auxilleries.

the Allies chart makes perfect sense when viewed in that context.

I'm assuming that you haven't heard of Gue'Vesa then. Gue'Vesa are "human helpers" who are IG who joined the Tau Empire.

The Allies of Convenience wouldn't represent Tau working with Imperials but would represent Tau working with their Gue'Vesa.

If anything they should be Battle Brothers (but that level leads to too much exploitation as we see all if the time in tournaments)

SGTPozy wrote:
I'm assuming that you haven't heard of Gue'Vesa then. Gue'Vesa are "human helpers" who are IG who joined the Tau Empire.

The Allies of Convenience wouldn't represent Tau working with Imperials but would represent Tau working with their Gue'Vesa.

If anything they should be Battle Brothers (but that level leads to too much exploitation as we see all if the time in tournaments)

Gue'Vesa ARE NOT STRICTLY IMPERIAL GUARD.

Gue'Vesa are humans who have become part of the Tau auxiliary formations which are dubbed "Gue'Vesa".
Their level of training is remarkably questionable, partly because you have to take into consideration that the rules that we've seen for Gue'Vesa are in the immediate aftermath of a conflict between the Imperium and the Tau Empire. Captured soldiers are given the choice of "Join the Gue'Vesa" or as shown in IA3 "Get worked to death in slave labor conditions".
Go down a few generations(which is entirely possible, given how long some former Imperial worlds have been under Tau control) and the descendants of those initial Gue'Vesa(who were trained PDF or Guard) might be nothing more than equivalent to Cultists or Conscripts.

Not to mention that the equipment and vehicle situation for Gue'Vesa is nowhere near what some people portray it to be("They have everything the Guard does, but built by the Tau instead!") and you would need an entirely new codex to portray Gue'Vesa in the light that they have been showcased in novels and other media.

Personally? I think you can do them as a one and done unit within the Tau Codex itself.

If you mean using Chaos with Imperial guard, I guess you could use all chaos models but with the Space marine codex. I know it's not the same, but it's close.

 docdoom77 wrote:
The title really says it all. Guard, IKs, and Mechanicus should be Allies of convenience with Chaos. Guard should be Allies of Convenience with Tau (maybe they are? I don't know and I don't have my book on me. ).

I wouldn't mind some consideration made for Ork Blood Axe alliances with Imperials (though I haven't seen that in the more recent fluff).

Will they ever do it?

Most of these things are very tiny exceptions that shouldn't dictate how the Allies levels really should be established.

Loyalist IG for instance are not going to be allies of convenience with Chaos in any reality sense, they'd have to turn traitor and no longer be what the IG codex is looking to represent, and thus the current system portrays that just fine. They do however have IA13 and IA Vraks for human traitor armies that can be BB's with Chaos and do so much better than loyalist IG proxies ever could.

I dont see them doing it anytime soon. The whole battle brothers causing unintended power combos aside, your best bet is to forge your own narrative (but then you run into issues with "public games" such as tournies).
there would be no problem with guard straight from the book allying with chaos marines as there are surely instances in the 40k universe where this would happen as they turned freshly traitor or were doing it unbeknownst to the rank and file. true, these would be the exceptions, but hey, thats why we play the game anyway, to have individual forces that do the un-normal.
Your best bet would be to talk with your actual gaming groups and find their opinions on the matter. Online at "many forums", they have issues with your having your own opinion. Your real life buddies will likely have enough respect for your and your opinions to hear your ideas out and work with you.
heck, I wouldnt care so long as it wasnt something too out of the ordinary such as sisters allying with bugs but even then, I'd just shake my head and play on.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I don't count forgeworld. Mail order only. Not allowed in my local tourneys. Frequently poo-pooed by opponents.

It's good for some, but not worth my time or money.

Why should we account for heretics anyway? They would need a different set of rules. Instead of using Space Marines and pretend them to be Renegade Space Marines, how about just use the Chaos Space Marines Codex and models and stop confusing your opponent.

Because as the fluff shows, not all renegades are bubbling pools of mucky mutations. Many are forces that follow the exact same military code and force organization and weaponry. they just have different ideals.
This is without even going into forces that are fresh on the road to heresy and have not degenerated that far.

This is one of the reasons I dont use 'official" paint schemes because it too visually pigeonholes you. If you have a marine force in your own colors, you could play it as any marine chapter or chaos chapter (or offshoot) so long long as everything was wysiwyg and you had the actual models in the case of the units that are army specific.