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Hi guys,

So I was playing the Relic mission today against a guy who had an Imperial Knight, which I (eventually) managed to kill.

I believed we had drawn 1-1, because neither of us had the relic at the end so it was first blood vs slay the warlord.

My mate then came over and told me that I had actually won, because I got a VP for every three hull points I managed to knock off the Knight (in this case two). He based this on a passage in the "escalation" rules, and apparently these apply to 40k games in general (i.e. I don't have to agree with my opponent beforehand that we are playing a specific "escalation" type game).

My opponent disputed this because this Knight was from the Imperial Knights codex as a detachment in and of itself, so it was not a Lord of War per se, therefore this rule did not apply so the game was a draw.

What is the correct position?

That rule is from Escalation, but it only applies if either player has a Lord of War unit. Only the Forge World specific variants can be LoW in another armies codex. In an Imperial Knight detachment or formation they're not a LoW.

So your opponent was correct. His Knight would not have been worth VPs, unless it was a Forge World Knight and he took it in his LoW slot. If it was in a Knight Detachment or Formation it would be worth no points.

The new imperial knights are ALL LOW so yes he is correct (well except Gerantius)

The new codex legally states that the Oathsworn Detachment (which can never be your primary detachment) consists of 1-3 LOW with the Imperial Knights faction, and this replaced the Imperial Knight detachment from the last codex.

Cheers guys!

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
The new imperial knights are ALL LOW so yes he is correct (well except Gerantius)

The new codex legally states that the Oathsworn Detachment (which can never be your primary detachment) consists of 1-3 LOW with the Imperial Knights faction, and this replaced the Imperial Knight detachment from the last codex.

Well in that case never mind then.

I haven't yet picked up the new codex so thats a big change.

If you weren't using the new rules though, your opponent was correct.

Supplement books do not affect the Rules of a normal game of 40k. the BRB does not give you a VP for every three HP from a super heavy.

if you are not playing an escalation game, you do not use escalation rules

 jokerkd wrote:
Supplement books do not affect the Rules of a normal game of 40k. the BRB does not give you a VP for every three HP from a super heavy.

if you are not playing an escalation game, you do not use escalation rules

Escalation isn't a supplement. It, along with Stronghold Assault, were considered additional rules that are included in every "standard" game of 40k. Think of them as "Codex: Fortifications" and "Codex: Huge Stuff".

But Escalation has since been FAQd to a supplement. You don't use Escalation rules unless playing an escalation mission.

I thought the bit about lords of war stipulated that it applied to all 40k games...?

 FlingitNow wrote:
But Escalation has since been FAQd to a supplement. You don't use Escalation rules unless playing an escalation mission.

Can you provide that FAQ? I skimmed the most recent FAQ for Escalation and didn't see anything about it only applying to Escalation Missions.

 Kriswall wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
Supplement books do not affect the Rules of a normal game of 40k. the BRB does not give you a VP for every three HP from a super heavy.

if you are not playing an escalation game, you do not use escalation rules

Escalation isn't a supplement. It, along with Stronghold Assault, were considered additional rules that are included in every "standard" game of 40k. Think of them as "Codex: Fortifications" and "Codex: Huge Stuff".

Those rules only apply within an escalation mission. As specified those are the only times they are invoked.

There seems to be some confusion here. The bonus VPs for dealing damage to LoW comes from the Secondary Mission Objective "Through Attrition, Victory". Unless the mission you are playing has said mission objective, which currently only include the Escalation missions, you do not get bonus VPs for damaging LoW.

 Happyjew wrote:
There seems to be some confusion here. The bonus VPs for dealing damage to LoW comes from the Secondary Mission Objective "Through Attrition, Victory". Unless the mission you are playing has said mission objective, which currently only include the Escalation missions, you do not get bonus VPs for damaging LoW.

Understood. Thanks. I misunderstood the bonus VPs to be an ongoing thing for all missions based on above posts.

 Happyjew wrote:
There seems to be some confusion here. The bonus VPs for dealing damage to LoW comes from the Secondary Mission Objective "Through Attrition, Victory". Unless the mission you are playing has said mission objective, which currently only include the Escalation missions, you do not get bonus VPs for damaging LoW.

My mate is insisting that the book says it applies to every 40k mission. I don't know, since I don't have the book...

EDIT: the bit he is talking about says "“If one or more players choose to include a Lords of War unit in their army, the additional mission special rule and secondary objective described below automatically apply in any mission that you play.”" - P34

FURTHER EDIT: Noooooooooooooo, just read the FAQ... Damn.

 Krusha wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
There seems to be some confusion here. The bonus VPs for dealing damage to LoW comes from the Secondary Mission Objective "Through Attrition, Victory". Unless the mission you are playing has said mission objective, which currently only include the Escalation missions, you do not get bonus VPs for damaging LoW.

My mate is insisting that the book says it applies to every 40k mission. I don't know, since I don't have the book...

EDIT: the bit he is talking about says "“If one or more players choose to include a Lords of War unit in their army, the additional mission special rule and secondary objective described below automatically apply in any mission that you play.”" - P34

FURTHER EDIT: Noooooooooooooo, just read the FAQ... Damn.

Where on page 34 is the bit about applying to all games? If it's in the first 3 paragraphs the faq removes it and replaces it with something else anyway which is as Happyjew describes it: only applicable to escalation missions.

Yeah, I know, that's why I put in the second edit...

Worth noting, the ITC, which governs most tournaments on the West Coast of the US, includes the following in it's guidelines:

-If one player has a Super Heavy/Gargantuan LoW and the other does not, the player without can roll on the Escalation Warlord Table and gains +1 to Seize the Initiative. For every 3 Hull Points/Wounds dealt to a Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature LoW, the player dealing the damage earns a bonus maelstrom point.

As per the official FAQ, the bonus VP's (Through attrition, victory) only applies to Escalation missions found in the Escalation book (page 1, right colum, last paragraph).

chmcclellan wrote:
Worth noting, the ITC, which governs most tournaments on the West Coast of the US, includes the following in it's guidelines:

-If one player has a Super Heavy/Gargantuan LoW and the other does not, the player without can roll on the Escalation Warlord Table and gains +1 to Seize the Initiative. For every 3 Hull Points/Wounds dealt to a Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature LoW, the player dealing the damage earns a bonus maelstrom point.

They use house rules though. Which is fine but should be agreed on before the game