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The formation in question:


So I actually own a battle company, and this seems like the optimal way to run it. Tactical marines aren't the most competitive choice in and of themselves, but using the tactical doctrine with this list means you can have up to 240 twin-linked bolter shots coming from them hitting up to 12 units. Obviously the formation won't fit below 3000 points, so that's the points level I'd like to discuss (I usually play large games so it's pretty standard).

I'm considering the following list:


Would you consider this formation competitive at a 3k level, considering it puts out 6k worth of shooting on its first turn. The list can split into 21 squads with 13 pods and 2 dreads, so the retaliating fire would have to handle MSU galore after being extremely withered down. How would you counter such a list, preferably with a bound one yourself?

Lastly, do you think it's worth going with this formation over a normal pod list with Objective Secured and a more open choice of units without having to dump points into bolter bodies?

The formation is crazy powerful. Pop the tactical doctrine, and twin link, double shoot everything off the table.

I would diversify a bit more. And include your heavies, and probably put longer range guns on the dreads. After the initial drop, you are going to have problems moving around and mopping up.

That formation easily punches way above its own weight class in points. The only things that stand a chance at the same point value are other armies that can null deploy and drop pod or deep strike while having you go first. If not facing that kind of army, I can't imagine it will even be a game.

As far as optimizing, I would give a few squads some melee weapons, since you can also hop right in to punching with the formation.

The reaon for the melta spam is my fear of metal boxes It feels like the list can handle most other threats through sheer weight of fire alone. How do you suggest I diversify, and is it really worth trading melta for close combat weapons?

For any of my suggestions to make sense I am going to have to make a few points about the formation's weaknesses and strengths.
Weaknesses:
1) This formation is low firepower for a 3000 pts list. It actually causes less wounds than most 2000 pts IG, Tau, CWE, DE, or Skitarii builds. Doubling your firepower turn 1 sounds amazing but it is only decent when you are trapped into taking full devastator squads that need to DS in pods, 2 full assault squads, and 6 full TAC squads. None of those choices are pts efficient firepower. What they do have going for them is resiliency, decent assault ability, and flexibility.
2) You are loosing ObjSec on your TAC squads. This is very nearly the only things that made them worth taking as killing 18 ObjSec units down to a man was nearly impossible. With this formation you don't need to kill them at all. You can claim objectives with your own ObjSec units and win.

Strengths:
1) Flexibility is the real strength of this formation. You can shoot the choppy and assault the shooty. Combined with combat squads each pod can land (maybe causing some wounds), shoot with all their special weapons twice, and then assault with the 5 man bolter bodies they were forced to take.
2) Drop pod the entire army turn 1. This is a very good alpha strike setup and helps you avoid taking too much damage from other alpha strikes. There is however a very high chance for the opponent to largely negate you or force you to DS out of position.

So with all of this in mind. I would do several things;
1) Keep the dreadnoughts with the basic powerfist + MM setup and perhaps a HF. This allows you to either shoot twice at hordes or shoot a MM and assault vehicles. Your dreadnoughts will not last long outside of melee but in melee they have can tie up units and deal some serious damage to most vehicles. This is also the cheapest way to field them.
2) I would take half my TAC squads with plasma and half with melta. Same sort of configuration as you have. MC have become significantly stronger in the game and you are going to need something to deal with them. Plasma is also good enough against most vehicles AV12 and less (get to the side armour of knights if that is a concern).
3) I would probably take the devs with lascannons and combat squad the extra 5 to go off and get to objectives not near your main drop zone. With so little mobility after turn 1 you are going to need something to get to Obj in your deployment zone and in out of the way corners. May as well use something mostly useless to do it. The addition of long range weapons will also be very necessary as after turn 1 you will not have the mobility to chase after transports. You will need something to pop those transports that escape your melta range.
4) Consider some melee upgrades. Command squads and assault squads can do work when you can ensure they get a charge off. Also if you can charge top of turn 2 consider keeping your units big and multi charging a bunch of units. You have a very good chance to sweep a bunch of units from the casualties cause by a single vet sarge with a powerfist.

Taking advantage of the turn one assault could be very nice. Looking at the formation rules, this might actually be a place for the TLHF dread to shine. As its guns would all be assault. Depending on how strictly you read it, you could use ironclads. I know this has be bandied about before for other things, so YMMV. While we are getting all rules-lawyerie, you might still be able to charge after fire salvo weapons.

I do think including some plasma guns would be beneficial.

The special rules are very good, but you give up a lot of tactical flexibility to field this formation.

Most of you are army are tacticals, however it is one of the few formations that legit RAW without any discussion on what is reserves or arriving from deepstrike (see blood angel formation) can assault turn 1. A command squad/2 assault squads are not bad things to assault with. As such I would kit out the 2 assault squads at least for assault. Its a good way to tie up units you may not be able to gun down (riptides...) and get models into situations where they will be locked during the enemies turn preventing shooting retaliation and possibly blocking line of sight to your models.

I also second making at least two of the tactical units plasma gun units. Against most AV 10/11 Metal boxes two rapid fire plasma shots is often better than 1 str8 melta shot with jinking etc out there. The plasma is also more effective against the growing number of T4/T5 3+ units out there (T wolves, lots of mechanicus stuff, wraithguard/blades).

You couldn't use ironclads as they are not bought from the dreadnaut datasheet.

Unfortunate that the UM dev doctrine does not work on a turn you disembark. Double shooting does make up for it a little bit.

The list weakness (if any) will be against turn 1 null deployment and going first, and in mobility. You will be where you want to be turn 1 most of the time, but turn 2+ you are footslogging around to get to objectives etc. As such melta with its short range, is not so hot past the first turn or two (pun intended)

Where are you guys getting these scans? If Marines get something this flying rodent gak I'm sure my Orks get to re-roll warlord traits or something

 Dakkamite wrote:
Where are you guys getting these scans? If Marines get something this flying rodent gak I'm sure my Orks get to re-roll warlord traits or something

I saw them on bell of lost souls.

New campaign supplement for imperials versus daemons put out by warhammer world. Not sure if they are a citadel publication, but it has formations with models from both FW and citadel. Also the cover art looks terrible. Most of the formations seem to be high model count and very costly as in possibly not even fieldable in under 2k points.

Sounds like Living Tide - great Nid formation, but well over 3k points, and hundreds of models. Fun for those with 12+ hours to burn... Would be neat to see lists like these played out.