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2015/05/18 17:23:58
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Academic advisor placed on leave after threatening to call security on student for waiting for an appointment
By Jonathan Ore, CBC News Posted: May 16, 2015 1:45 PM ET Last Updated: May 16, 2015 6:20 PM ET
An academic adviser at a Georgia university has been placed on leave after a video of her accusing a student of harassment — apparently for sitting in a room waiting for an appointment — went viral.
Academic adviser Abbey Dawson tells student Kevin Bruce to leave a human resources office at Kenneshaw State University, saying that waiting for an appointment is harassment. (Kevin Bruce/Twitter)
Kevin Bruce, a student at Kennesaw State University (KSU) in Kennesaw, Ga., posted a short video on Wednesday of the adviser, who has been identified as Abbey Dawson, demanding Bruce leave the lobby of a human resources office, where he was hoping to speak with another academic adviser.
Dawson accuses Bruce of harassment and asks Bruce to leave. Bruce says he's simply waiting to speak to his adviser and that he isn't harassing anyone.
"Sitting here until somebody is available is harassing them," Dawson says, and then threatens to call campus security before walking away.
It's not clear whether there was any other discussion or confrontation before the start of the video, where Dawson approaches Bruce. However, there aren't any signs of commotion or chatter in the otherwise placid office waiting room.
Bruce told local news outlets that he had been trying unsuccessfully to schedule a meeting with one of his academic advisers for some time. When he went to the human resources office, he was told his adviser was unavailable.
Speaking to local news affiliate, Bruce said he didn't have anything else to do at the time, so decided to wait until someone was available to talk to him. He also posted an email exchange with Dawson, alleging that she and others at the faculty were being unhelpful when he was asking for academic advice.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/05/18 17:36:51
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
At least not under UK law. After checking out American Law, it ain't harassment either.
It's not a legal matter, rather a university matter.
So it doesn't matter the legal definition of harassment because if there are rules in place on KSU's campus detailing this particular thing as harassment, it would be harassment.
Notice she says "campus police" and "security", not "police".
In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if some colleges had policies like that in place. The one I go to has it set up so that you make appointments to meet with your advisers, not just sit in the student services building doing nothing.
2015/05/18 17:57:35
Subject: Re: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
So he was told that there was nobody available to speak with him, and instead of leaving he sat around until the person was waiting for stopped what they were doing to talk to him? Hmn, sitting there bothering someone till they talk to you could be annoying. However instead of just sitting there he could have pressed to have an actual appointment (a person's schedule can't be that full that they have no free slots for the entire term, especially given that its there job to talk to this guy), what he did was just passive aggressive. Meh, well this matter could have been handled better, but chalk that up to poor communication or people being too self centered.
2015/05/18 18:01:05
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Kanluwen wrote: In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if some colleges had policies like that in place. The one I go to has it set up so that you make appointments to meet with your advisers, not just sit in the student services building doing nothing.
I'm pretty sure that if you went to HR speculatively most places would let you know the next free appointment and if it was not too far off, would have zero issue with you waiting in the waiting area. The issue here comes if one of the advisors has been in contact with you previously and you have taken issue with their handling of your concerns... they could feel annoyed at you wanting to speak to someone else, especially if they feel that you will raise your complaints against them with one of their colleagues.
Whether this constitutes harrassment is to my mind doubtful however.
Edit: Even if as above there were no appointments for that day... people always cancel. I know that I have had patients turn up for clinics speculatively and while it is not always convenient, people do simply not show up, or you may get a few minutes to see them and sort out any issues they have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/18 18:02:48
Wyrmalla wrote: So he was told that there was nobody available to speak with him, and instead of leaving he sat around until the person was waiting for stopped what they were doing to talk to him? Hmn, sitting there bothering someone till they talk to you could be annoying. However instead of just sitting there he could have pressed to have an actual appointment (a person's schedule can't be that full that they have no free slots for the entire term, especially given that its there job to talk to this guy), what he did was just passive aggressive. Meh, well this matter could have been handled better, but chalk that up to poor communication or people being too self centered. [/quote
Read the article.
The student couldn't see anyone. If I needed to see someone who could affect my immediate future I would damn sure wait around until I was seen by someone.
It isn't passive aggressive - It's making sure you get heard.
2015/05/18 18:06:10
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
"Academic advisor placed on leave after threatening to call security on student for waiting for an appointment"
Sounds like she got what she deserved. Professors and Academic Advisors are so hard to get time with, you have to camp out from time to time to see them. That lady can get bent. She serves the students, not the other way around.
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2015/05/18 18:15:24
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Reading other articles, there had been complaints against this advisor already, and recently, for being less than helpful to students.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/05/18 18:16:03
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
kronk wrote: "Academic advisor placed on leave after threatening to call security on student for waiting for an appointment"
Sounds like she got what she deserved. Professors and Academic Advisors are so hard to get time with, you have to camp out from time to time to see them. That lady can get bent. She serves the students, not the other way around.
Amen, her job, in fact her whole damned section exist to serve the students. The tuition those customers/students pay is what gets her a salary.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/05/18 18:38:23
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
I hope she's fired. This guy was completely calm, sitting there patiently waiting. No pounding on the door or anything. Calmly waiting. She deserves to lose her job.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
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2015/05/18 18:40:59
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
timetowaste85 wrote: I hope she's fired. This guy was completely calm, sitting there patiently waiting. No pounding on the door or anything. Calmly waiting. She deserves to lose her job.
What we saw FILMED was just him sitting there patiently waiting.
2015/05/18 18:58:28
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Maybe silent but deadlies were involved? TBone could clear a room (including other dogs) and then look at you like it was your fault.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/05/18 18:59:39
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
timetowaste85 wrote: I hope she's fired. This guy was completely calm, sitting there patiently waiting. No pounding on the door or anything. Calmly waiting. She deserves to lose her job.
What we saw FILMED was just him sitting there patiently waiting.
And had there been no fim, maybe he would have just been charged with sexual harassment just on her say so.
Best to stick with what was filmed, because if you want to go down the rabbit hole with what wasnt filmed, it can go both ways.
we have on tape, her accusing him of assault/harrassment while just sitting there, she never claimed any thing aside from the mere act of being there was harassment, or she would have mentioned it or accused him of something else by now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: Maybe silent but deadlies were involved? TBone could clear a room (including other dogs) and then look at you like it was your fault.
I would not be shocked to see assault charges laid for a fart
timetowaste85 wrote: I hope she's fired. This guy was completely calm, sitting there patiently waiting. No pounding on the door or anything. Calmly waiting. She deserves to lose her job.
What we saw FILMED was just him sitting there patiently waiting.
And had there been no fim, maybe he would have just been charged with sexual harassment just on her say so.
Best to stick with what was filmed, because if you want to go down the rabbit hole with what wasnt filmed, it can go both ways.
we have on tape, her accusing him of assault/harrassment while just sitting there, she never claimed any thing aside from the mere act of being there was harassment, or she would have mentioned it or accused him of something else by now.
Once again, what a university's rules claim is harassment are not necessarily the same as the legal definitions.
And she never once said "assault" from what I heard in the video.
Her initial statements were:
You cannot harass Missus Tilly like that.
You are.
I could call security, you can fill out the form just like everybody else does.
2015/05/18 19:11:33
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Once again, what a university's rules claim is harassment are not necessarily the same as the legal definitions.
Many places consider verbal harassment as a form of verbal assault.
Its hard to use any definitions when we have people claiming the university gets to make up its own definition of what harassment is... next they get to make up what murder is.
assault, harassment, whatever label you put on it, it wasnt being done, show me where in the university code it defines waiting for someone in a waiting room to meet with someone for legit purposes i harassment
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/18 19:16:08
2015/05/18 19:12:35
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Frazzled wrote: Reading other articles, there had been complaints against this advisor already, and recently, for being less than helpful to students.
Reading the OP it really sounded that she had prior history, or a prior history with that student which may help explain her reaction. Sounds like she richly got what she deserved.
2015/05/18 19:17:38
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Once again, what a university's rules claim is harassment are not necessarily the same as the legal definitions.
Many places consider verbal harassment as a form of verbal assault.
And again, she never once uses the term "assault".
Its hard to use any definitions when we have people claiming the university gets to make up its own definition of what harassment is... next they get to make up what murder is.
It's not a "claim". Many universities have certain rules in place regarding certain actions; for example if you know that appointments are required for meeting with your adviser(note: the woman never once says that he is harassing HER. She says "You cannot harass Missus Tilly like that.") and you just opt to sit out in front of their office, there could be repercussions. Especially if you've been told that the adviser has no openings today or things of that nature.
Also why is he posting emails from August 2014 in regards to the events that happened today?
assault, harassment, whatever label you put on it, it wasnt being done, show me where in the university code it defines waiting for someone in a waiting room to meet with someone for legit purposes i harassment
I'm not the one putting labels on it. YOU are.
And that's not necessarily a "waiting room" but rather it might be the actual offices proper for the advisers, which usually don't allow students back unless they're actually in a meeting with their adviser in their office.
2015/05/18 19:43:18
Subject: Re: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Im torn, this very well could be a pain in the butt adviser what we have all had at some point during schooling, or it could be the exact opposite, it appeared, at least to me, that this confrontation had been going on for awhile. I guarantee in fact that she had asked him to leave several times before the video because realistically what A HOLE walks around with his phone out recording random crap? I wouldn't be at all surprised if she gets reinstated and this guy gets charged with being a D*CK which is apparently against the law in Georgia.
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2015/05/18 19:49:13
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
And that's not necessarily a "waiting room" but rather it might be the actual offices proper for the advisers, which usually don't allow students back unless they're actually in a meeting with their adviser in their office.
judging by the edge of the couch you can see in the video, I think it is a "waiting room" or foyer type setup.
I do have to also side with this dude, because from what we can see, he is completely calm, and has every legal right to be waiting there, because he had already previously arranged an appointment time. Especially if there have been previous complaints against this same lady by other students.
2015/05/18 20:02:20
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Are we sure of that? Wouldn't the office be private property? Maybe trespassing works differently in the US, but if someone in an office tells someone that doesn't work in the office to leave, they should probably go.
And before we go down the "as a student surely they have a right!", I'm going to bet they're not allowed into all kinds of offices at all kinds of hours. Just being a student isn't enough to have carte blanche to go or be wherever they want.
But again, it's possible that state or university has explicit notices that said couch is 100% available to students 100% of the time. >.>
2015/05/18 20:03:10
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
And that's not necessarily a "waiting room" but rather it might be the actual offices proper for the advisers, which usually don't allow students back unless they're actually in a meeting with their adviser in their office.
judging by the edge of the couch you can see in the video, I think it is a "waiting room" or foyer type setup.
I do have to also side with this dude, because from what we can see, he is completely calm, and has every legal right to be waiting there, because he had already previously arranged an appointment time. Especially if there have been previous complaints against this same lady by other students.
See, from the phrasing in the article and the way that the video plays out it doesn't seem like he actually had an appointment with a specific adviser. The article's title says that he was "accused of harassment while waiting for an appointment", but then the article itself says:
Speaking to local news affiliate, Bruce said he didn't have anything else to do at the time, so decided to wait until someone was available to talk to him. He also posted an email exchange with Dawson, alleging that she and others at the faculty were being unhelpful when he was asking for academic advice.
That doesn't suggest to me that he had an appointment, but he was just sitting in the lobby/foyer/whatever.
I'm really not sure what the email exchange was supposed to show anyways. It's from August 2014 and intentionally or not, he basically just shows his emails, and nothing beyond Abby Dawson(the woman in the video) saying that "You will need to refer to the information I have given you previously. You have all the answers you need to quickly find the answer to this question".
2015/05/18 20:41:49
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
Does this mean I'm not allowed to wait at the dealership for them to finish my oil change anymore (no, I can't change my own oil)?
Or what about if I have to get a root canal and decide to sit in my dentist's waiting room till he's done filling a kid's cavity before me? Or, is the dentist harassing me by having a room to wait in, because waiting is harassment?
2015/05/18 20:46:54
Subject: Re: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
*Student asked some questions of his adviser, which were somewhat complicated.
*Adviser Responded with an email with a link to a "read this and follow it" much how tech support places say 'have you checked the FAQ'.
*Student responded with 'I didn't understand the document links you sent me, it is confusing. Please, can we meet?
*Adviser responded with "Re-read the document. Period."
*Student fills out forms to make multiple appointments. Every appointment is canceled, rescheduled, or blocked from being made because "his question was already answered"
*He went to the head of his academic department who basically said "Yep, you should transfer to a school with Advisers who give a darn and work for a living" eluding to a similar frustration or knowledge that this is a known issue.
So after all this, he then went to get an appointment. He has full documentation of his run-around and it apparently is a known thing. In my day, advisers were faculty, basically my professors in my major. I know some schools make the positions a non-professor clerical position.
The big thing is when this got legs, there is a lot of want to focus on the racial perception, but the man explicitly said 'no, all students are having this issue... this is a bigger issue'
Seems like bureaucratic run around and students get screwed. In my old college, we had similar issues with specific classes being only offered once every 2 years due to being a small college, if it was a required class and you missed it, you could be waiting 3 semesters before it came back again. If you didn't have an adviser looking out for you and knowing your situation, you would often finish in 4 years, take a year off, come back to take a single class for a semester and graduate at a random time.
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2015/05/18 21:24:57
Subject: University student in Georgia accused of harassment for waiting for an appointment
In my day, advisers were faculty, basically my professors in my major. I know some schools make the positions a non-professor clerical position.
The school I'm currently at has both. We even have a "Veterans Adviser" who handles only students on the various VA paid programs. The reason we have both, is that if you are a future transfer student (such as I am) even the best field adviser may not have all the answers to what transfers where. So for instance, if my current adviser, who is a history professor because my goal is to transfer out and get a bachelor's in history says, "Well you really need to get another science class knocked out of the way" but isn't sure exactly which science class to take due to transfer requirements, I can go down to the main advising office and say, "My adviser says I need to take X class, but it needs to fulfill requirements A, B, and C"
Ultimately, at least at my school ,and even the school I'm transferring to, they need both the Student Adviser, who is a professor in the field of study, to ensure that the student stays on the right track to meet their goals, but then the "scheduling adviser" (for lack of a better term) is there to make sure that the classes are available and meet your needs.... kind of like the high school guidance counselor did (I know that's about all mine were good for)