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I'm in the process of putting together an eldar corsairs/harlequins army. I realise that corsairs are likely to get an update soon (maybe) but they are very fragile as are harlequins.

The issue I have is that all of my options are very easy to take out, especially if i don't get first turn.

My list, so far is something like this:

Corsair prince
3 x 5 man corsairs with jet packs and missile launchers
1 squadron of wasp walkers with dual scatter lasers (can't outflank but can deepstrike)
2 pulse laser hornets in a squadron outflaking
1 nightwing
1 phoenix

2 units of harlequins skyweavers
1 unit of voidweavers

That gets me to around 1500 points depending on numbers and upgrades.

What i think is that i need something on the board turn 1 that can weather a storm which none of the above do. I want to avoid craftworld eldar although i do have a wraithseer and two wraithlords but i don't want to go unbound.

I have plenty of other eldar units but i would really like to hear Dakka's thoughts on how to deploy when your units are very fragile or you have to keep things in reserve.

My thoughts so far are to put units on the board and spread them out so that they will survive until i can bring other units on. But what if all i deployed was the harlequins? I need to survive!

Free up 260 points for a Scalpel Squadron and you can Null Deploy.

My advice: cover and LOS-blocking terrain are your friend. Keep your units hidden from the enemy. A 5++ is good for your army, but don't rely on it for protection. Hide every vehicle and every infantry unit in the plentiful terrain you set up, and you're protected from all but the longest-range Ignores Cover in the game. Your units should always be maneuvering to claim a cover save withouthaving to jink/go to ground. Those are only for the desperate situations you'' get yourself in. You'd be surprised at how durable these tactics make seemingly wet-rice-paper units out to be.

That said, this list needs more troops. Troupes would be a good choice, as would some DE Kabalites or Wracks. Put them in Starweavers/Venoms and you get the coveted null-deployment prize!

Sometimes you can Reserve everything and hide just one unit that's completely behind Line of Sight.

Then use a Comm Relay to bring stuff in.

Sometimes....

Get some Wraithguard. Take them as an Elite choice in your Corsair detachment. Or some Rangers hidden completely out of sight.

Inside/Behind Fortifications

Granted, they aren't what they used to be either, but hey...

 TheNewBlood wrote:
My advice: cover and LOS-blocking terrain are your friend. Keep your units hidden from the enemy. A 5++ is good for your army, but don't rely on it for protection. Hide every vehicle and every infantry unit in the plentiful terrain you set up, and you're protected from all but the longest-range Ignores Cover in the game. Your units should always be maneuvering to claim a cover save withouthaving to jink/go to ground. Those are only for the desperate situations you'' get yourself in. You'd be surprised at how durable these tactics make seemingly wet-rice-paper units out to be.

That said, this list needs more troops. Troupes would be a good choice, as would some DE Kabalites or Wracks. Put them in Starweavers/Venoms and you get the coveted null-deployment prize!

So much this. You need a lot more LoSB terrain than what most players use. I usually abstract the terrain too to increase the amount - can see into but not through forests, windows etc in ruins block LoS unless your up against them to shoot out, stuff like that.

With a little ingenuity you can litter the table with stuff to hide behind - and in a game like this hiding and revealing your units is the closest thing to tactics your gonna find. Absolutely appalling how many people play in a shooting galley with a few token pieces of 5+ cover thrown about

I struggled with the same problem, running dark eldar. What I ended up doing is ally in some eldar, and running Grotesques and Dark Reapers inside night shielded raiders (frequently a 2+ cover save*), warp spiders, mandrakes, and reavers/shining spears.
It gives me targets with good cover saves (mandrakes with 2+ cover, reavers and spears with 3+ cover, and transports with 3+ or 2+ cover) and then the warp spiders, who dance out of range or out of line of sight when targeted.
Then I try and hide the scourge, banshees and warriors (pretty much in that order of quality of cover), and then offer up a useless beast pack.
So basically, get at least 1 durable unit (grotesques for me) and maximize the effects of cover.

If you try and hide everything, you're in for some trouble. Highly mobile armies will find a way to target you, and you will be taking hits you cannot afford to take. Give your opponent something to shoot at, and often they won't work to get the shots they really need to get.

You guys considered the Void Shield generators? If you get that fortification thing with three of them and a pipe you can put AV12 bubbles everywhere and protect whatever is left with a solid cover save

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I struggled with the same problem, running dark eldar. What I ended up doing is ally in some eldar, and running Grotesques and Dark Reapers inside night shielded raiders (frequently a 2+ cover save*), warp spiders, mandrakes, and reavers/shining spears.
It gives me targets with good cover saves (mandrakes with 2+ cover, reavers and spears with 3+ cover, and transports with 3+ or 2+ cover) and then the warp spiders, who dance out of range or out of line of sight when targeted.
Then I try and hide the scourge, banshees and warriors (pretty much in that order of quality of cover), and then offer up a useless beast pack.
So basically, get at least 1 durable unit (grotesques for me) and maximize the effects of cover.

If you try and hide everything, you're in for some trouble. Highly mobile armies will find a way to target you, and you will be taking hits you cannot afford to take. Give your opponent something to shoot at, and often they won't work to get the shots they really need to get.

Whoa, how do you get a 2+ cover save on the Raiders? I need this for mine, but the best I've figured isa 3+ with Night Shields.

 Homeskillet wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I struggled with the same problem, running dark eldar. What I ended up doing is ally in some eldar, and running Grotesques and Dark Reapers inside night shielded raiders (frequently a 2+ cover save*), warp spiders, mandrakes, and reavers/shining spears.
It gives me targets with good cover saves (mandrakes with 2+ cover, reavers and spears with 3+ cover, and transports with 3+ or 2+ cover) and then the warp spiders, who dance out of range or out of line of sight when targeted.
Then I try and hide the scourge, banshees and warriors (pretty much in that order of quality of cover), and then offer up a useless beast pack.
So basically, get at least 1 durable unit (grotesques for me) and maximize the effects of cover.

If you try and hide everything, you're in for some trouble. Highly mobile armies will find a way to target you, and you will be taking hits you cannot afford to take. Give your opponent something to shoot at, and often they won't work to get the shots they really need to get.

Whoa, how do you get a 2+ cover save on the Raiders? I need this for mine, but the best I've figured isa 3+ with Night Shields.

Stick the nose behind LoS blocking terrain, facing the enemy, have the back/side exposed. Now you Jink (4+ cover), Night Shield (+1 cover save) and Vehicle Obscured (pg 77).

I'm deliberately sticking my dark reaper raider in this type of position. I'm cranking out 5 S8 shots a turn, so you want to shoot back. Please do, I'm baiting you into a bad decision.

-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
You guys considered the Void Shield generators? If you get that fortification thing with three of them and a pipe you can put AV12 bubbles everywhere and protect whatever is left with a solid cover save

I really want to like them, but it's a lot of points for what you get. Unless you've got something inside that also requires anti-tank style guns, all you're doing is spending points to give your opponents tank hunting weapons a target. Those will pop the AV12 really fast, and then it's back on to the squishy guys inside, of which you've now got a lot less of, because you blew a bunch of points on Void Shields.

On the other hand, if you're already running vehicles and TEQ, then each shot at a void shield is a shot that isn't hitting those expensive hard targets.

-Matt

Practise! Or pick a more resilient army

It's the price you pay for taking Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlies.

Utilise any terrain you can find, and use your units to give your other units a coversave.

Ideally with this list, you have one single highly resilient unit on the board. Maybe the Harlequins can hide somewhere?

I don't think the Jink save stacks with the obscured cover save. It doesn't state it gets +1 to cover(or i couldn't find it on the page you quoted).

I'll also praise LOS blocking. My LGS made some and having 2 pieces of LOS on the table has just been amazing. Its made games much more enjoyable.

organicpesticide wrote:

I don't think the Jink save stacks with the obscured cover save. It doesn't state it gets +1 to cover(or i couldn't find it on the page you quoted).

It's in the example on page 77 for obscured vehicles.
Edit, oh wait, it's also at the top of 77, and in that section, it states you add 1 to the cover save given by the obscuring cover.
So you still can get the 2+ save, but you don't even need to jink.
4+ cover from ruins, +1 cover from having the front facing fully obscured, +1 cover from stealth (night shields).

It all works great until the 2nd marker light hit.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

organicpesticide wrote:

I don't think the Jink save stacks with the obscured cover save. It doesn't state it gets +1 to cover(or i couldn't find it on the page you quoted).

It's in the example on page 77 for obscured vehicles.
Edit, oh wait, it's also at the top of 77, and in that section, it states you add 1 to the cover save given by the obscuring cover.
So you still can get the 2+ save, but you don't even need to jink.
4+ cover from ruins, +1 cover from having the front facing fully obscured, +1 cover from stealth (night shields).

It all works great until the 2nd marker light hit.

-Matt

Matt, sorry I'm not seeing what you're talking about here for "+1 cover from having the front facing fully obscured". It's not anywhere I saw in the BRB. Pg. 77 says that in order to benefit from a cover save at all, the vehicle must be 25% obscured; it doesn't provide you a bonus.

The best cover save you'll get on the board is a 3+ on your Raider, unless someone throws Shrouded on it.

Strike like the wind, my wayward sons! Deploy your corsairs like they should be deploying: swiftly, and in a Venom for lighter/Elite squads- and a Falcon for the stuff you want to survive.

 Homeskillet wrote:


Matt, sorry I'm not seeing what you're talking about here for "+1 cover from having the front facing fully obscured". It's not anywhere I saw in the BRB. Pg. 77 says that in order to benefit from a cover save at all, the vehicle must be 25% obscured; it doesn't provide you a bonus.

The best cover save you'll get on the board is a 3+ on your Raider, unless someone throws Shrouded on it.

Top of page 77, and picture 3 of the example.

It may rarely happen that the firing unit cannot see any part of the facing they are in (front, side or rear), but they can still see another facing of the target vehicle. In this case, they may take the shot against the facing they can see, but to represent such an extremely angled shot, the vehicle receives a cover save one point batter than that given by the cover obscuring the vehicle's other facing.

Great advice about cover and such, my only comment is that to NOT count on having any meaningful cover at any type of tournament. Playing Orks for a decade will make you feel naked. The best cover is that which you take with you. Cheap units, vehicles, bikes due to Jink and they usually block quite a bit.

Also, bikes are like infantry in many ways, they don't have to be facing any particular direction to move, shoot, assault. Face them sideways and move them as such. No rotating to get more distance shenanigans needed. Mobile wall of cover saves. Hope that helps a little!

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:


Matt, sorry I'm not seeing what you're talking about here for "+1 cover from having the front facing fully obscured". It's not anywhere I saw in the BRB. Pg. 77 says that in order to benefit from a cover save at all, the vehicle must be 25% obscured; it doesn't provide you a bonus.

The best cover save you'll get on the board is a 3+ on your Raider, unless someone throws Shrouded on it.

Top of page 77, and picture 3 of the example.

It may rarely happen that the firing unit cannot see any part of the facing they are in (front, side or rear), but they can still see another facing of the target vehicle. In this case, they may take the shot against the facing they can see, but to represent such an extremely angled shot, the vehicle receives a cover save one point batter than that given by the cover obscuring the vehicle's other facing.

I totally did miss that, nice catch. On the flip side though, how often can you actually make that work? It sounds pretty rare that the facing that my opponent is in is COMPLETELY out of LoS, but that another facing is still visible. Despite the rare opportunity, I know I'm going to try to make it happen either way.

add a unit of harlies in a starweaver and play cegorach's jest having your Troupe Leader be the warlord, roll on Light table and hope to get The Hero's call, webway walker or trick of the light