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So....

I melee a transport to death.
The squad inside jumps out.
Can I still stomp?

Stomp says "in addition to regular attacks", and no where in the rule does it require a target.

Fire Away,
-DB

No.

To stomp, you still need to be in combat at Initiative step 1. If you killed the transport you arent, cause you dont become locked with the unit that comes out of it.

No, you are not in combat with that squad. You can only stomp if you are engaged in hth.
A squad cannot be engaged in hth just by disembarking near an enemy unit.

What if you charge through terrain and your regular attacks are also hitting at I 1?

Then you can Stomp. Stomps are attacks made at step 1 is all. Although, since the attacks are simultaneous, I'd play you can't target the guys getting out.

I would also play that the guys pile out after the combat ends so still no stop as it would have been thrown at the transport during the actual combat

You can stomp units which are not in combat though, just not when you are not in combat. So, in the hypothetical situation that that you are in a combat with a transport (multi assault maybe) and another unit - if you kill the transport at I5 and the other unit keeps you locked in combat then you can stomp at I1 and potentially hit the squad that just piled out.

You cannot since the guys getting out are still not in combat.
You can only engage in hth through charging, you have not charged the guys, just their transport. In effect you lose the other stomp attacks (assuming you rolled 2 or 3) and lose your regular attacks too.
Youve killed the transport, end of combat.

Not even a hiwpi.

When the unit gets out they must be at least 1" away from any enemy unit(thus not engaged in any way).

No matter what i step the transport is popped in assault the passengers will never be engaged.

 Zippokovich wrote:
I would also play that the guys pile out after the combat ends so still no stop as it would have been thrown at the transport during the actual combat

Except the stomp attack doesnt have to target what your locked in combat with. So you still get to stomp, I would just play it ignoring the guys who were in the transport.

 Iron_Warden wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
I would also play that the guys pile out after the combat ends so still no stop as it would have been thrown at the transport during the actual combat

Except the stomp attack doesnt have to target what your locked in combat with. So you still get to stomp, I would just play it ignoring the guys who were in the transport.

Yep I agree, was editing my post when you said almost the same thing :p

Except the stomp attack doesnt have to target what your locked in combat with.

No it does - line one of Stomp: "Superheavy walkers engaged in combat can make a stomp attack". Once the transport is dead, you are not enegaed with the squad inside. End of that combat.

 Ratius wrote:

Except the stomp attack doesnt have to target what your locked in combat with.

No it does - line one of Stomp: "Superheavy walkers engaged in combat can make a stomp attack". Once the transport is dead, you are not enegaed with the squad inside. End of that combat.

Not denying that. When it gets to step 1 it gets to use its attacks, all of them.

In the situation where it has charged throguh difficult terrain and is striking at I1 the knight (for example) would get to attack and use its stomps, simultaneously. And you dont have to target the combatants, only be in combat to use stomp.

 Ratius wrote:

Except the stomp attack doesnt have to target what your locked in combat with.

No it does - line one of Stomp: "Superheavy walkers engaged in combat can make a stomp attack". Once the transport is dead, you are not enegaed with the squad inside. End of that combat.

It doesn't - you have to be locked to perform it but it can hit whatever it can reach - so if you happen to be locked with a 2nd unit then you can stomp the disembarked unit

But you are not locked with the disembarked unit.
You have not charged them. No charge= no lock.

 Ratius wrote:
But you are not locked with the disembarked unit.
You have not charged them. No charge= no lock.

This is not the point, as has been stated several times. you were locked at the start of the step.

Hmm?
Stomps can only happen with engaged units correct?
The disemabrked unit is not engaged.
Hence no stomp.

You were locked with the transport. Not the embarked unit.

 Ratius wrote:
But you are not locked with the disembarked unit.
You have not charged them. No charge= no lock.

Yeh but as long as you are locked with something (a hypothetical second unit that wasn't in the original situation but could be - e.g. multiassult) you can still do the stomp and the stomp doesn't have to target the unit you are engaged with - you just place it in base to base and then 2'' for any following ones and it hits whatever falls under it. There are a few other threads clarifying that stomps can hit units outside of the combat.

 Ratius wrote:
Hmm?
Stomps can only happen with engaged units correct?
The disemabrked unit is not engaged.
Hence no stomp.

No. The check for who can fight has already happened, and is done by model and I step, not weapon.

Step 1, is the knight engaged? Yes, therefore he can attack. What attacks does he use, his normal ones and a special Stomp one.

Yeh but as long as you are locked with something (a hypothetical second unit that wasn't in the original situation but could be - e.g. multiassult) you can still do the stomp and the stomp doesn't have to target the unit you are engaged with - you just place it in base to base and then 2'' for any following ones and it hits whatever falls under it.

Accepted. But the OP said a single transport.

No. The check for who can fight has already happened, and is done by model and I step, not weapon.

Step 1, is the knight engaged? Yes, therefore he can attack. What attacks does he use, his normal ones and a special Stomp one.

Agreed. But he can stomp or make normal attacks VS the transport and nothing else.

 Ratius wrote:

Yeh but as long as you are locked with something (a hypothetical second unit that wasn't in the original situation but could be - e.g. multiassult) you can still do the stomp and the stomp doesn't have to target the unit you are engaged with - you just place it in base to base and then 2'' for any following ones and it hits whatever falls under it.

Accepted. But the OP said a single transport.

Agreed - single transport then stomp has to go on the vehicle is how i would play it

 Ratius wrote:

Yeh but as long as you are locked with something (a hypothetical second unit that wasn't in the original situation but could be - e.g. multiassult) you can still do the stomp and the stomp doesn't have to target the unit you are engaged with - you just place it in base to base and then 2'' for any following ones and it hits whatever falls under it.

Accepted. But the OP said a single transport.

No. The check for who can fight has already happened, and is done by model and I step, not weapon.

Step 1, is the knight engaged? Yes, therefore he can attack. What attacks does he use, his normal ones and a special Stomp one.

Agreed. But he can stomp or make normal attacks VS the transport and nothing else.

No, nowhere in the Stomp rules does it say "must target an engaged unit". His normal attacks are subject to such a rule, so if he stomped first and kills the transport there is nothing for his attacks to hit (except an already dead transport). If he attacks first, then stomps. Even after killing the transport he can still follow the rules for the stomp, placing the template etc. etc.. I'm just adding that HIWPI is he couldnt target the now disembarked unit as they weren't there when the attack was initiated. But you can stomp out of the combat onto another unit.

Ratius wrote:

Yeh but as long as you are locked with something (a hypothetical second unit that wasn't in the original situation but could be - e.g. multiassult) you can still do the stomp and the stomp doesn't have to target the unit you are engaged with - you just place it in base to base and then 2'' for any following ones and it hits whatever falls under it.

Accepted. But the OP said a single transport.

Not quite. The original post simply stated:

danjbrierton wrote:I melee a transport to death.
The squad inside jumps out.

One Transport was killed, not only fighting one Transport.

And you can fight two units at the same time, provided you included them in the Charge Declaration, or they charged you. Another possibility is the Super-Heavy could have charged a Transport Squadron like Valkyries in Hover and only killed one of the Vehicles, Disembarking the unit in question from the Wreckage.

But a lot of this is simply finding a situation where you COULD crack shell and then Stomp the nuts inside. Odds are low of this happening with common occurrence, but it can happen.

To be "engaged" in combat, you must be in base contact with an enemy model locked in the same combat.

The 2 conditions for being able to attack are

*Having an an initiative value equal to the initiative step

*Being engaged, or being within range of a friendly model that is.

After the transport is destroyed, even if it was at initiative step 1, you are no longer engaged and therefore can make no more attacks.

You most definitely cannot be engaged with the unit that disembarks, in the same phase

 jokerkd wrote:
To be "engaged" in combat, you must be in base contact with an enemy model locked in the same combat.

The 2 conditions for being able to attack are

*Having an an initiative value equal to the initiative step

*Being engaged, or being within range of a friendly model that is.

After the transport is destroyed, even if it was at initiative step 1, you are no longer engaged and therefore can make no more attacks.

You most definitely cannot be engaged with the unit that disembarks, in the same phase

But is does matter when the check is to be made. If the check is at the begining of the Initiative step, then the stomps go off. Unless you are arguing that there would be a second check in between its regular and stomp attacks? If so, rules quote?

 extremefreak17 wrote:


But is does matter when the check is to be made. If the check is at the begining of the Initiative step, then the stomps go off. Unless you are arguing that there would be a second check in between its regular and stomp attacks? If so, rules quote?

Thank you, this is what i'm saying, when you make the check is what matters.

Ok so gmc or shw(referred to hereafter as a stompy) is engaged with a transport.

If said stompy is engaged with a single transport and destroys it in any i step above 1; it cannot stomp the passengers (cannot attack at i1 as it is no longer engaged)

If said stompy is engaged with a single transport and destroys it in i step 1 it cannot stomp the unit(all melee attacks happen simultaneously in i steps so the unit is still in the transport while the stomps are happening)

If said stompy is engaged with multiple units and destroys the transport prior to i step 1, the stomp could cover the unit as ancillary(iirc the stomp is blast templates that can generally strike non-engaged models/units, if that us incorrect then they cannot be hit)

If said stompy is engaged with multiple units and destroys the transport: at i1 see the single engaged at i1 above.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Ok so gmc or shw(referred to hereafter as a stompy) is engaged with a transport.

If said stompy is engaged with a single transport and destroys it in any i step above 1; it cannot stomp the passengers (cannot attack at i1 as it is no longer engaged)

If said stompy is engaged with a single transport and destroys it in i step 1 it cannot stomp the unit(all melee attacks happen simultaneously in i steps so the unit is still in the transport while the stomps are happening)

If said stompy is engaged with multiple units and destroys the transport prior to i step 1, the stomp could cover the unit as ancillary(iirc the stomp is blast templates that can generally strike non-engaged models/units, if that us incorrect then they cannot be hit)

If said stompy is engaged with multiple units and destroys the transport: at i1 see the single engaged at i1 above.

Yea. Good summery

Guess that could be seen as the best reason to take the Gauntlet, so I step 1 becomes viable.

SJ

Hows that sj? I step 1 in all cases has the unit inside the transport while the stomp is going off(all attacks in an i-step are simultaneous, this includes the stomp even if you roll for the gauntlet attacks first)

Because you can Hurl the Transport at the now disembarked passengers.

SJ