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Hey, this is an honest review of Golem Painting Studio who are based in Manchester, UK. I'd always wanted to get some models painted, I've never been a massive fan of painting and due to work commitments I didn't have too much time to either. I chose Golem due to how close they were to home and from the reputation they had on the forums. I also deicded to do this review mainly because there isn't many reviews out there on painting studios and it's always good to know what you're paying for. Hope this helps.

http://www.golempaintingstudio.co.uk/index.htm

Golem offer 3 levels of pricing. Regular, High and Display standard.

I contacted Golem at the start of October 2014 wanting to get a Legion Tactical Squad and a Legion Champion painted for my Pre-Heresy Blood Angels Army. I started small so that I could work out if I liked their service. My email was quickly and I provided pictures and ideas on what I wanted to be done. Prices were agreed, the deposit of 50% was paid and I posted the models out to them. I went for the Regular standard to begin with. I waited 6 days to find out if they had arrived before sending an email myself asking if they had. I'm not sure what most studios do but it would of been nice to know when they arrived without asking. Not a big problem though.

13 days past and I sent another email to get a quote for some new models I wanted painting. I also asked for an update on the models I already had with them. Here is the test model.



I was very happy, I made a couple of suggestions like a black knee pad and IX on the right shoulder pad. I then gave the go ahead to complete the squad.

I waited a while again until I had to prompt for updates from Golem. It was around Christmas time now and I was given another picture of the WIP and told that they'll be very busy over Christmas. Now this is where I started having a little trouble with my Yahoo account, emails weren't sending and I wasn't getting some emails either so that made it a little hard to communicate with Golem but they did their best to keep in contact.



I changed my email account and the emails started flowing again. It was just before Christmas now and I sent out a squad of Cataphractii Terminators (In the High Standard) and a Deimos Rhino (Regular standard) to be painted.

The Tactical Squad and Legion Champion were finished and the final pictures were given to me. The Roman numbers on the shoulder pad hadn't been donem like I asked and they had already been posted out to me before hearing from me. I knew I had to send them back to get them finished but I also checked them over before sending them back. I noticed a few slops and pointed them out before sending them back to Golem to be touched up and the roman numerals to be added. It was just a bit of a case of not painting within the lines and a bit of red still on the base round the feet.




At this point in time I was happy with how everything was going, a couple of hiccups but nothing that wasn't expected or could be sorted. I sent the 10 Tacticals back with the Champion to be touched up along with another 10 Tactical Marines and 10 Assault marines. I also had my Terminators and a Rhino getting worked on. I was told they were getting put on the shelf together to get completed together. I got a picture from Golem mid January showing me the free hand numerals on the shoulder pad. I wasn't really happy with them so I suggested that I'd pick up some World Eaters Legion Transfers (XII) and they could cut off I and flip it to make a IX. Simple right?



This is where it went a little downhill for me. Golem started having a little trouble with people leaving and they must have had lots to get completed, I wont go into much more detail than that. The emails really slowed down, usually I'd get a reply within 48 hours but now I was lucky to get a reply every 2 weeks. Golem were polite and made me aware that they were struggling and that was fine. Getting an update on things was very difficult though. I got a picture of my Terminators which were in High Standard and a Rhino which was in their Regular Standard.

I think they looked good but couldn't work out the difference between the Reuglar level Marines and the High level Terminators?




I finally got some pictures back of the Tacticals and the Numeral decals they were using on the shoulder pads. Somewhere down the line the message had no been given to the painter that he had to convert the World Eaters ones into Blood Angels ones by cutting it up and flipping it around. So he added the XII backwards IIX instead of a simple IX



I told Golem I wasn't happy with this and they said they would sort it out and get them posted back to me. I got everything back at the start of June and I have mixed emotions. I really like the red, the details and the battle damage. But in an attempt to fix the decals, half of them are hanging off and you can clearly see where they have painted over them. It just doesn't look right. I'm happy with the terminators and the rhino though, good job on them. Pictures will be attached of a few but it's the same across all the marines.






Overall they made a good start but the communication ended up really bad and the mistakes made on the Tactical Marines and Assault squad really could be avoided by making sure the message gets across to the painters. I really do like the Terminators and the Rhino but the other stuff really spoilt it all. All the painting took around 7 months to complete.

Anyway I hope this helps.

Would you use them again?

Decals look dreadful. GW decals aren't the best being a bit thick, but to correctly apply you should gloss coat the model, then apply decals with softening agent like MicroSol before a final dull varnish. The fact the decals haven't stuck on well and show silvering shows they cut a corner here that isn't acceptable at any level of payment for painting.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Decals look dreadful. GW decals aren't the best being a bit thick, but to correctly apply you should gloss coat the model, then apply decals with softening agent like MicroSol before a final dull varnish. The fact the decals haven't stuck on well and show silvering shows they cut a corner here that isn't acceptable at any level of payment for painting.

The transfer sheet from Forgeworld isn't cheap either, quite expensive to replace 30 of them when you only get 40 on a sheet.

Tyron wrote:Would you use them again?

Although I like them over at Golem, I wasn't happy with how this went. So probably not.

Thankyou for taking the time to post the review, I've often seen golems work on other sites and have previously thought they were a solid company. However I must say I'm not very impressed with the service and final products you have recieved.

in my opinion the work done is lacking in due care and attention, I've done my fair share of painting commissions and I have to say one of the most important things (after making sure the customer is getting what they asked for) is that you as the painter are happy with the final product. I would not be happy sending out figures with such obvious mistake and sloppiness.

It maybe that they were suffering from a staffing problem but it's no excuse to dispatch figures that aren't up to scratch.

I also have to say that I'm finding it difficult to see the differences between the two 'levels' of painting. Would it be possible to see a close up of a terminator next to a standard marine?

I do dislike the levels of painting system, I'm of the opinion that if you are paid to do something you do it to the best of your abilities.

I do hope that your happy with your force and that you get enjoyment out of having a painted force on the table top.

 edlowe wrote:
Thankyou for taking the time to post the review, I've often seen golems work on other sites and have previously thought they were a solid company. However I must say I'm not very impressed with the service and final products you have recieved.

in my opinion the work done is lacking in due care and attention, I've done my fair share of painting commissions and I have to say one of the most important things (after making sure the customer is getting what they asked for) is that you as the painter are happy with the final product. I would not be happy sending out figures with such obvious mistake and sloppiness.

It maybe that they were suffering from a staffing problem but it's no excuse to dispatch figures that aren't up to scratch.

I also have to say that I'm finding it difficult to see the differences between the two 'levels' of painting. Would it be possible to see a close up of a terminator next to a standard marine?

I do dislike the levels of painting system, I'm of the opinion that if you are paid to do something you do it to the best of your abilities.

I do hope that your happy with your force and that you get enjoyment out of having a painted force on the table top.

Thanks for taking your time to reply. I agree with everything you're saying. Everything I'd heard was good and thats why I chose them. I do like the look of them on the tabletop but when I focus on the shoulder pads and notice the decals, I find myself disappointed.

I've added some pictures you requested and while taking them I noticed that under the wing on the Terminator (the shoulder tabbard) a bit has been missed when painting.

I have a question for other commission painters, would you let a model be posted back to a customer with tiny mistakes? What would you do if it happened by accident?

i would never have sent out the models with those decals in the first place, as i take too much pride in my work...
i would have ripped them off after seeing that they didn't work out, and hand-painted the numerals...
to answer your question though, i am always happy to fix anything that the customer isn't happy with...

good communication, and plenty of WIP pics, keeps the customer from having to wait until the minis are in hand to realize that something is wrong...
saves a lot of trouble all around...
which is why i do Update Sundays...
clients get to start their week with pics of progress, and contribute any changes they would like to see over the next week...
having a commission done should be a fun adventure for the client, not a frustrating experience...

cheers
jah

I don't know who they currently have on their crew right now, I'm genuinely quite surprised, and I sincerely hope that they have learned from their troubles with this. They really are lovely guys to deal with, it's a damn shame to hear.

How much did you pay for the tacticals if you don't mind me asking?

Honestly, for a paid paint job, I'd say the Terminators would be the bare minimum of acceptable quality. Looking through those close-ups of the tactical marines, I'd have to say all you paid for was their time, because there's nothing I see that you probably couldn't have done yourself if you had the time.

@Thamor: i should add, that I know Tommie (the head of Golem) to be a good guy...
i am sure that he will get those minis straightened out for you with no hassle...

cheers
jah

Buttery Commissar wrote:I don't know who they currently have on their crew right now, I'm genuinely quite surprised, and I sincerely hope that they have learned from their troubles with this. They really are lovely guys to deal with, it's a damn shame to hear.

I was surprised as well. I've heard nothing but good things about them. Even though the replies were slow at the end, they were still extremely polite.

The Division Of Joy wrote:How much did you pay for the tacticals if you don't mind me asking?

Pricing wasn't too bad to be honest. The Tacticals were £8/9 a model if I remember correctly.

jah-joshua wrote:@Thamor: i should add, that I know Tommie (the head of Golem) to be a good guy...
i am sure that he will get those minis straightened out for you with no hassle...

cheers
jah

Thanks for a reply Jah. I was thinking of contacting them but I'm not sure I want to be sending them out again, it's weeks between replies and it would mean ordering a new transfer sheet from forgeworld. It took a while to get them back and I probably want to start gaming with them soon.

Thanks

 jah-joshua wrote:

@Thamor: i should add, that I know Tommie (the head of Golem) to be a good guy...
i am sure that he will get those minis straightened out for you with no hassle...

cheers
jah

QFT.

It seems that maybe a level of quality control has been skipped. I'd agree with Jah-Joshua and suggest you drop them a line, or even call them up to discuss.

I was lucky enough to spend a day there a couple of years ago, and the quality of their work was outstanding so I would like to think that this is a minor blip for them.

Hope you get sorted!

I don't comment much here but I felt I had to weigh in on this as I hate seeing people accept crap quality and not complaining - it is your right as a customer to complain and have something done about that complaint.

Thamor wrote:

Buttery Commissar wrote:I don't know who they currently have on their crew right now, I'm genuinely quite surprised, and I sincerely hope that they have learned from their troubles with this. They really are lovely guys to deal with, it's a damn shame to hear.

Thanks for a reply Jah. I was thinking of contacting them but I'm not sure I want to be sending them out again, it's weeks between replies and it would mean ordering a new transfer sheet from forgeworld. It took a while to get them back and I probably want to start gaming with them soon.

Thanks

The tactical squad looks bad, aside from the decals, the red looks quite flat, they're missing wash and highlight of the process.

The sand of the bases should be painted too, not just flock them on, it looks out of scale and fake.

One possible easy solution concerning the decals: apply GW Lahmian medium, make sure you shake up the pot before applying, poke through the decal if there is a varnish coat preventing the Lahmian medium from getting underneath the decal.

If that is genuinely worth 8 quid a mini, I'll have to get into mini painting. That's astonishing.

Full disclosure -
A: I'm a part time commission painter
B: I have had a lesson with Tommie up at Golem and think he's an awesome guy and the studio is a fascinating place to poke about. The lesson was not what I expected but that's a different thread.

Very interesting to see.

I'd argue that at £8 per mini, this is a pretty decent deal... however, I do think the basing leaves a little bit to be desired and the splashes and transfers were not acceptable and should have been resolved before sending out.

I think a lot of people think painting is fun, so there shouldn't be an associated cost. This is a pretty common theme when it comes to "hobby" based or creative jobs. This was a job for sure, and should be considered thus.

In my "real" job I earn £15 per hour , when I paint I charge roughly £10 per hour... I should charge more, but there is always a balance between client expectations and budget. I don't do this full time (yet, it’s on the cards for the near future) . I;d argue you are paying for experience, as well as the work. I've been painting over 20 years and have 4 silvers and 4 bronzes in professional competition under my belt (though by no means consider myself a pro at all, I have a long way to go yet )

When you consider how long these marines took, you at roughly 1 hour per mini minimum, so the £9 per mini is reasonable. Does that even account for mini construction? Some places split that charge out separately.

The comment regarding painting to the best level possible, I wish all commission paint jobs could be done that way. The basic clean up and basecoat work on a mini is the least rewarding, but often most time consuming part of mini painting, and it’s the bit that gets the least "value for money" but is often the most used.

I charge three rates, £10 per figure/ £30 per figure / POA per figure. This will give a neat and tidy base level job/ a high table top job/ a display quality job. I get most of my work at the base rate unsurprisingly, but it’s not that much fun and it doesn't give the best possible results.

So, I would make sure you get the issues you have raised resolved for sure, but you honestly got value for money in terms of the level of paint vs the cost, based on your statement of roughly £9 per figure. I'd have to see more shots of the termies to see if they would meet the mid tier criteria, but they do seem to be of a slightly higher level.

One thing to also bear in mind is Golem, much like Blue Table is a group of painters, on variable and sometimes revolving contract, so the quality will differ between painters. When I was up at Golem, the range of quality on the shelves was noticeable between the different painters, but I would imagine they parcel the work out based on cost vs experience of painter.

I know a few of the chaps who work/have worked at the studio and I can understand a heavy workload getting in the way of quality control.

However I would not accept the quality of that tac squad based on their £8 PM price. Regardless of how good a painter you are, you are only as good as your last job. Painting over the decals in such an obvious fashion is almost a bit of a slap in the face. I would have expected them to remove and fit new ones. They may have lost out on a bit of profit but a satified customer breeds new custom.

@Cypher - Thanks for the advice, I'll send them an email with pictures attached and see what they have to say.

Venerate1 wrote:I know a few of the chaps who work/have worked at the studio and I can understand a heavy workload getting in the way of quality control.

However I would not accept the quality of that tac squad based on their £8 PM price. Regardless of how good a painter you are, you are only as good as your last job. Painting over the decals in such an obvious fashion is almost a bit of a slap in the face. I would have expected them to remove and fit new ones. They may have lost out on a bit of profit but a satified customer breeds new custom.

I agree, the quality just isn't good enough to send out, I'd be happy with them if the transfers weren't as bad. If things had gone fine and the communication was good I probably would of kept sending them stuff as I have over 6000 Points that need painting.

JonWebb wrote:Full disclosure -
A: I'm a part time commission painter
B: I have had a lesson with Tommie up at Golem and think he's an awesome guy and the studio is a fascinating place to poke about. The lesson was not what I expected but that's a different thread.

Very interesting to see.

I'd argue that at £8 per mini, this is a pretty decent deal... however, I do think the basing leaves a little bit to be desired and the splashes and transfers were not acceptable and should have been resolved before sending out.

I think a lot of people think painting is fun, so there shouldn't be an associated cost. This is a pretty common theme when it comes to "hobby" based or creative jobs. This was a job for sure, and should be considered thus.

In my "real" job I earn £15 per hour , when I paint I charge roughly £10 per hour... I should charge more, but there is always a balance between client expectations and budget. I don't do this full time (yet, it’s on the cards for the near future) . I;d argue you are paying for experience, as well as the work. I've been painting over 20 years and have 4 silvers and 4 bronzes in professional competition under my belt (though by no means consider myself a pro at all, I have a long way to go yet )

When you consider how long these marines took, you at roughly 1 hour per mini minimum, so the £9 per mini is reasonable. Does that even account for mini construction? Some places split that charge out separately.

The comment regarding painting to the best level possible, I wish all commission paint jobs could be done that way. The basic clean up and basecoat work on a mini is the least rewarding, but often most time consuming part of mini painting, and it’s the bit that gets the least "value for money" but is often the most used.

I charge three rates, £10 per figure/ £30 per figure / POA per figure. This will give a neat and tidy base level job/ a high table top job/ a display quality job. I get most of my work at the base rate unsurprisingly, but it’s not that much fun and it doesn't give the best possible results.

So, I would make sure you get the issues you have raised resolved for sure, but you honestly got value for money in terms of the level of paint vs the cost, based on your statement of roughly £9 per figure. I'd have to see more shots of the termies to see if they would meet the mid tier criteria, but they do seem to be of a slightly higher level.

One thing to also bear in mind is Golem, much like Blue Table is a group of painters, on variable and sometimes revolving contract, so the quality will differ between painters. When I was up at Golem, the range of quality on the shelves was noticeable between the different painters, but I would imagine they parcel the work out based on cost vs experience of painter.

I agree completely, I do think £8 is good for the Tacticals, but I don't think the transfers were very well done at all and that let the finish down.

Thanks for the advice.

The Division Of Joy wrote:If that is genuinely worth 8 quid a mini, I'll have to get into mini painting. That's astonishing.

The Tacticals cost £8, not a bad price and the Terminators were £20 a model. I think the Rhino was £40? Not 100% on that though.

Big Mac wrote:The tactical squad looks bad, aside from the decals, the red looks quite flat, they're missing wash and highlight of the process.

The sand of the bases should be painted too, not just flock them on, it looks out of scale and fake.

One possible easy solution concerning the decals: apply GW Lahmian medium, make sure you shake up the pot before applying, poke through the decal if there is a varnish coat preventing the Lahmian medium from getting underneath the decal.

In their defense the models do look shaded in person and you can certainly see the highlights, it's kind of what I requested anyway. I wanted the forgeworld look.

Cheers for offering advice on a solution but I wouldn't want to risk making them any worse when I don't really know what I'm doing.

Cypher226 wrote:I don't comment much here but I felt I had to weigh in on this as I hate seeing people accept crap quality and not complaining - it is your right as a customer to complain and have something done about that complaint.

Thamor wrote:

Buttery Commissar wrote:I don't know who they currently have on their crew right now, I'm genuinely quite surprised, and I sincerely hope that they have learned from their troubles with this. They really are lovely guys to deal with, it's a damn shame to hear.

Thanks for a reply Jah. I was thinking of contacting them but I'm not sure I want to be sending them out again, it's weeks between replies and it would mean ordering a new transfer sheet from forgeworld. It took a while to get them back and I probably want to start gaming with them soon.

Thanks

Firstly - this is your hobby, but it's their business. If you are a dissatisified customer, it's in their interests to rectify that - becuase for everyone who's looked at this thread, some will certainly be put off from using them until/unless they rectify your issues and you post an update here. I know I wouldn't use them until I saw a string of positive reviews, having seen the photographic evidence here.

If they have miscommunicated the requirements on the decals to the painter, that is their issue to rectify - including ordering and paying for replacements if needed. It is unacceptable for a consumer to have to pay further to rectify a service supplier's cock-up.

UK consumer law principles say:

Citizens Advice Bureau wrote:If you think the service has not been carried out with reasonable care and skill you should tell the trader straight away. If you wait too long to complain you could be seen as accepting the faults and it will be more difficult for you to complain later on. You should list the problems in writing, especially if there are lots of them.

If you are dealing with a shop or business, you may need to speak to the manager or director to sort the problem out. Large shops or businesses may have a customer service department or manager.

.

In other words, e-mail them ASAP and tell them you're not happy. Then work out with them what they're going to do.
Point them in the direction of this thread or, if time is an issue, copy/paste everything you've written here and send it to them.

Please Britain/world, stop accepting sub-par service because you think it's too much hassle to complain!

20 quid per terminator?!

Good god.

Looking at them the painting's decent enough for the price (especially as you wanted a foregworld style look), but as you say the decals have been badly done, and 'fixed' even worse

they needed removing if possible, or the pads sanding down if not then replacing with either fresh decals or hand painted/stencilled numerals

hope they sort it out quickly

They owe you a new sheet of decals at the very least.

I'd weigh in that the terminators there are worth nowhere near £20 a model, There doesn't seem to be a noticeable quality jump from the tacticals to the terminators to merit the increased time or materials needed for an increase in price. As it is with the way the tacticals have been left they aren't worth £8 a model, the naff decal application have ruined an otherwise standard paint job to the point where it should have been fixed even if it was at the studios expense.

Just for comparison, my own quick'n'dirty HH Blood angel terminators:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
20 quid per terminator?!

Good god.

Genuinely curious what you think painting is worth and how long you think these might take?

I can paint a mini in anything from 1-100 hours. This standard would take around three (based on what I can see from the photos) even at the minimum wage you would be looking at about £15 or so, and for minimum wage I really wouldn't bother painting mini when there are easier ways of making money.

Not having a go here, just interested to hear your thoughts.

People will have their reasons for paying for paint, and it's not for everyone. It's just always interesting as this is a common initial reaction to painting costs, and I often wonder if people have considered the time it actually takes, both to learn how to paint, and then to physically put paint to mini.

Btw, on the basis that gremlin in your gallery is yours, then you could easily make good money painting for others yourself

Thamor wrote:
@Cypher - Thanks for the advice, I'll send them an email with pictures attached and see what they have to say.

Big Mac wrote:The tactical squad looks bad, aside from the decals, the red looks quite flat, they're missing wash and highlight of the process.

The sand of the bases should be painted too, not just flock them on, it looks out of scale and fake.

One possible easy solution concerning the decals: apply GW Lahmian medium, make sure you shake up the pot before applying, poke through the decal if there is a varnish coat preventing the Lahmian medium from getting underneath the decal.

In their defense the models do look shaded in person and you can certainly see the highlights, it's kind of what I requested anyway. I wanted the forgeworld look.

Cheers for offering advice on a solution but I wouldn't want to risk making them any worse when I don't really know what I'm doing.

The possible solution can't be any worse than what they already are; the problem is the 'foggy' decal that has some space in between the decal and shoulder pad, the GW lahmian medium will rid of that 'fog' as long as you make sure the medium gets underneath the decal. Test on one and see for results.

JonWebb wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
20 quid per terminator?!

Good god.

Genuinely curious what you think painting is worth and how long you think these might take?

I can paint a mini in anything from 1-100 hours. This standard would take around three (based on what I can see from the photos) even at the minimum wage you would be looking at about £15 or so, and for minimum wage I really wouldn't bother painting mini when there are easier ways of making money.

Not having a go here, just interested to hear your thoughts.

People will have their reasons for paying for paint, and it's not for everyone. It's just always interesting as this is a common initial reaction to painting costs, and I often wonder if people have considered the time it actually takes, both to learn how to paint, and then to physically put paint to mini.

Btw, on the basis that gremlin in your gallery is yours, then you could easily make good money painting for others yourself

Thanks, I honestly think I'm way off a decent standard (yes burt is mine) and honestly would paint those termies to a better quality if someone offered me 60 quid.

But here's the problem I guess. Those three guys would take a day for me to get beyond that level. In fact, give me 60 quid and a weekend and you'll get something I personally think is better. But I'm not doing it to live on, so I can see why I'm probably being a little harsh.

I just get annoyed when someone gets ripped off. If you are offering you services as a professional mini painter, there has to be some quality control. If not, then it's embarrassing. There is literally no way someone with even a modicum of professionalism has QC'd those minis.

I see a few people in my field (engineering) that are bluffing, getting good money to consult on things they have no idea on. Companies wasting cash because they don't know any better. This is one of these situations in my opinion, someone wasting hard earned money and it makes me cross.

As for specifics..

Poor lazy weathering
Lack of correct shading
No attempt to get a good flat surface (classic case of rushing)
Appalling transfer application
Going over lines and not bothered to tidy up.
No attempt at highlights on the black
Lazy drybrushed red

I don't care if these guys are adopting sick puppys, they aren't 'nice guys' if they are signing off this standard of work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I've just looked on their website, for a termie, you've paid for the high standard!

Shocked.

This has often been my argument when it comes to paying for painted minis; yes it takes time to learn your craft and yes you have to pay for supplies. But if you are intending to make this a business then you simply have to learn how to paint to this standard QUICKLY. A friend who paints my own minis (funnily enough an ex Golem painter) regularly does them for around £12 per mini for high standard. I can give him a squad of ten termies and about £110 on a Friday and have them back painted and excellent standard by Monday.

I always encourage people to enterprise but just being a decent painter and having time on your hands doesn't mean you should be offering painting services. It's alike to being a writer I suppose.

I don't think the paint job is that bad. It is 'tabletop' for sure. I think the paint job is probably acceptable for the price. They look nice and will probably look good from 3 feet.

I do think the decals are the main problem. If you don't know how to use decals, you shouldn't sell them as a service. I don't feel there are 'tiers' of decal work unless you accept unattached broken decals like this acceptable.

If you can't soften them, flatten them and prep the service and post-decal to make them right, especially on a curved service, don't offer it as an option.

Also, unpainted sand IMHO looks bad. Even a single color paint on top of the sand with a wash will look million times better. But you could probably do that yourself.

I don't know the solution, but I would probably remove and fix the decals myself and ask for a partial refund based upon the decals. (but I also know how to hobby stuff so fixing a decal is no biggie for me)

Good luck!

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Thanks, I honestly think I'm way off a decent standard (yes burt is mine) and honestly would paint those termies to a better quality if someone offered me 60 quid.

But here's the problem I guess. Those three guys would take a day for me to get beyond that level. In fact, give me 60 quid and a weekend and you'll get something I personally think is better. But I'm not doing it to live on, so I can see why I'm probably being a little harsh.

I just get annoyed when someone gets ripped off. If you are offering you services as a professional mini painter, there has to be some quality control. If not, then it's embarrassing. There is literally no way someone with even a modicum of professionalism has QC'd those minis.

I see a few people in my field (engineering) that are bluffing, getting good money to consult on things they have no idea on. Companies wasting cash because they don't know any better. This is one of these situations in my opinion, someone wasting hard earned money and it makes me cross.

As for specifics..

Poor lazy weathering
Lack of correct shading
No attempt to get a good flat surface (classic case of rushing)
Appalling transfer application
Going over lines and not bothered to tidy up.
No attempt at highlights on the black
Lazy drybrushed red

I don't care if these guys are adopting sick puppys, they aren't 'nice guys' if they are signing off this standard of work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I've just looked on their website, for a termie, you've paid for the high standard!

Shocked.

Absolutely fair points, they are a business not a charity and have to be assessed as such. Don't deny that at all.

Based on what you write, then if you can bust out 3 Termies to a standard equal to Burt in a day (six hours) then you would be more than worth that £60. So more power to you That's the fine balance as a painter for sure. The time/quality ratio is key.

As an aside (the first of two today ) I have won three speed painting competitions at Gencon, two Privateer Press and one Wyrd, all of which were qualifying heats and then finals. The Wyrd one including me painting against Marike Reimer and being judged by Zach Lanier, while being mocked/cheered on by Matt Di Pietro. I reference this, not as a humble brag (honest) but because it really taught me the value and skill of speedy painting. I know what I am capable of blasting out in an hour, but it’s not a standard I feel is acceptable for my minis... clients do feel otherwise, hence me getting basic tier work

If you can get to a decent standard and it takes a hour or two per mini, then you are the perfect commission painter. Very few have the cash flow to pay painters like Zach or Meg Maples to paint their armies, though they will pay them for one off pieces. Which is great (George RR Martin for example has a collection of pro painters all of whom work on a range of the GOT minis that he has in a large case in his house. Including Meg and Marike among others.

£60 for a weekend's work is not worth it as a long term painter, but for mates rates, its perfect. Its gets you some guilt free toy money, and gets your mates some nice minis to play with. Everyone is happy. But would you work full time for £30 per day? Depending on circumstance and location... maybe, maybe not. For reference, I'm in London.. so I couldn't afford to live here if I did. One of the reasons I am thinking of going full time is because I am leaving London and my mortgage will be 33% lower than my current rent! Crazy... but that's not the point.

With you all the way on hating rip offs. I have to bite my tongue a lot as I know a fair few "industry" people and have some standing in the PP community (less and less each day ) as I run SmogCon which is the biggest WM/H convention in Europe. I have seen some terrible customer service and low quality produces passed off by friends and acquaintances, and I wish I could be more vocal, but have to be careful simply to protect my "business" of the con. Certain recent Kickstarters for hobby products in particular are a bugbear for a number of reasons involving both personal and professional opinions and experiences with their creator.

I'm a huge fan of Jim Sterling, the work he does for consumer rights/information for computer gaming is great, and I wish there was more of it in the wargaming world. Sometimes I wonder if we are a bit too polite and restrained when it comes to offering criticism and companies seem to get a bit of a free ride at times... So threads like these are to be encouraged, as long as they are polite, factual and well thought out. The Blue Table discussion with those Chaos Dwarves was a great example of that.


Second random tangent (it makes sense if you hang in there ) I worked as a VFX artist for three years. If you have ever sat to the end of a Marvel film (and who doesn't? ) then my name has scrolled past you in tiny letters... Again, not a humble brag, but an illustration of something.

VFX is the baby of Hollywood, it’s still new (30 ish years old) and has no union and no power. Its why VFX artists names will appear almost last (if at all) on film credits. The guys who dog wrangle and the folks who make the sandwiches have more power and respect that VFX. Mostly due to the lack of unions.

As a result, VFX artists are treated as technicians at best, we have no creative control or say, and work long hours at very basic pay with no job security. I was pretty good at my job, but ultimately chose to leave the industry as I was doing 12 hour days, plus enforced weekends and bank holidays, sat in a dark room, in front of a computer all day, for barely above minimum wage.

They get away with it because A: Its freaking cool to work on major films.. for a while... B: For every one of you, there are 100 eager kids leaving school desperate to land a gig doing it C: no union = no power.

I now work in a very boring job, but I work for 7 hrs a day for way more money and when I walk out the door, I'm done. This then frees me up to paint more, and focus on the con. Plus I get to sit and talk paint of minis forums and no one stops me

Why am I telling you this? Because I feel similarly about mini painting as a job. Its seen as a technical job not artistry. I've spoken with several mini companies, large and small, and the money being offered is always well below a living wage. So I don't take the gig. Or else they balk at my prices ; ) I always wanted to work for Eavy Metal, but while working in a GW store I discovered the pay was minimum wage. Again, cool job, highly skilled, but everyone wants it, so you are easy and cheap to replace.

Venerate1 wrote:This has often been my argument when it comes to paying for painted minis; yes it takes time to learn your craft and yes you have to pay for supplies. But if you are intending to make this a business then you simply have to learn how to paint to this standard QUICKLY. A friend who paints my own minis (funnily enough an ex Golem painter) regularly does them for around £12 per mini for high standard. I can give him a squad of ten termies and about £110 on a Friday and have them back painted and excellent standard by Monday.

I always encourage people to enterprise but just being a decent painter and having time on your hands doesn't mean you should be offering painting services. It's alike to being a writer I suppose.

Again, fair points for sure. Agree speed is key. If you can’t get a decent tabletop standard (neatness being key) then don’t bother getting in to the game. But you also have to accept some corners will likely be cut. The corners that were cut here were totally unacceptable of course and should have been noted and fixed before sending out.

nkelsch wrote:I don't think the paint job is that bad. It is 'tabletop' for sure. I think the paint job is probably acceptable for the price. They look nice and will probably look good from 3 feet.

I do think the decals are the main problem. If you don't know how to use decals, you shouldn't sell them as a service. I don't feel there are 'tiers' of decal work unless you accept unattached broken decals like this acceptable.

If you can't soften them, flatten them and prep the service and post-decal to make them right, especially on a curved service, don't offer it as an option.

Also, unpainted sand IMHO looks bad. Even a single color paint on top of the sand with a wash will look million times better. But you could probably do that yourself.

Good luck!

The decals look like they were done by someone who hasn’t ever used decals before, or at least never tried to work on round areas, which is the bane of decals for. Ironic really that marines are the top sellers and one of the most decal heavy armies if done fully… but putting decals on pads can be a pig for sure. Agree in full that these needed far better treatment and technical skill to apply . It looks like they were cut off the sheets and almost glued on, a mistake I made the first time I used them waaaaay back in the mists of time on an airfix kit, not knowing any better about waterslide and how it’s done

It’s not even that a quick red touch up would fix the issues by covering the film excess, as they are physically raised off the mini, rather than just bubbled up. Bad.

The basing should certainly have got a wash and a drybrush also. I have argued against unpainted sand with friends in the past. It’s very easy to blow the “scale” of a mini by not doing things like this as it really doesn’t look remotely “real” or fitting with the mini. Plus, a wash and a drybrush across ten minis is really not more than five mins work at best. Even at my base rate you will get a rock and flock finish.

Very much enjoying the conversation folks, and I really hope the OP can get these fixed up to meet his expectations. Seeing FW minis suffer like this hurts

Email sent, I'll keep it updated on what happens.