Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Its like the DA one but better thats going to be in the new SM codex thats coming out.

Its 3-5 Librarians. You pick the main librarian, he knows all the powers of any librarians taken in the formation if within 12". If the main guy is within 12" of one conclave librarian he can cast a WC on a 3+, and 2+ if he's near two librarians. Only set back is that only the main librarian can cast powers, while the other librarians within 12" of him can not.

I think this can create a even stronger draigostar or regular centstar. With Nova format, you can have 3 formations, I want to run both Loth and Tiggy and I'll have 2x3 units of GravCents. With both Loth and Tiggy, I can finally have 2 invisible Centstars.

Basically a CAD with Tiggy and maybe Cypher, 2xCents, and 2-3 unit of min scouts. Conclave would be Loth(maybe Tiggy) and 2 lvl2 libs. Plus a allied DET of GK Lib, Draigo.

Outflank or reserve all the troops. Loth or Tiggy go with a Cents squad in drop pod and Draigostar starts out on board with gating. 14 base WCs, with both stars potentially having hammer hand and invisibility.

Another option is bringing a squad of Hammer Paladins instead of GravCents, saving points to beef up the scout squads, since with a 2nd invisibility, they can be viable again with their 2+(4++ invuln with sanct) and 5+ FNP.

The list can chew through WKs, IKs, and everything else thats not horde(GreenTide).

What do ya'll think... Running both Tiggy and Loth for 2 invis

Currently, the Formation does not allow swapping a librarian for Loth. It does have an allowance for Tigurius, though. So perhaps CAD w/ Loth and formation with Tigurius could work.

I see thats fine then. Still good but it sucks losing the UM chapter specials for the gravCents

I'm not sure if it's 100% official yet, but Nova might be putting a soft cap on Warp Charges at 12 or 14. So if you have a base of 14 dice, the additional d6 won't come into effect.

Personally, I'm exactly kind of excited about the Marines having some kind of Psychic phase that doesn't get immediately shutdown by a summoning list (E.g. - Running Tiggy by himself or Tiggy and friends with only 8 WC dice or so)

Still need to plan out an army, I was thinking MSU cents with Tiggy and 5 Libbies for buffing and Tiggy's reserve mods for keeping MSU Scout Speeders out til late, but haven't done the numbers yet.

I am pretty excited about this formation, especially in a 3 source format.

Tiggy getting Warp Charges on a 2+ WITH Reroll FTW. Pretty much completely unfailable powers and you can dial in exactly how many warp charges you want to push something through with should your opponent have a lot of warp charges to deny. Badass.

All I can say is that Tzeentch better be getting some sexy buffs to the psychic phase.

This formation was already in the hands of dark Angels, it's actually incredibly points top heavy after you start tricking out your librarians and the logic of using it falls apart.

Using the DA one you got exactly the same thing you could get from this one except you got Ezekiel instead of tigs.

This is as much a curse as it is a blessing. Tbh tigs is actually the most affordable part. As stuffing librarians into squads bare of upgrades is stupid and empty and this is just going to have them get killed so now your buying shields, and armor, and bikes, and other shiney baubles and what starts out as a 340ish base cost formation erupts into a nearly 500 point formation. And spending 500 on a bunch of grox that happens to be good at magic is still buying into a bunch of grox.

This is a fun formation for black Templar or sisters but it holds no practical weight in an army of conventional marines.

Yea I don't like running them msu style, upgrading the libs so they be strong/durable while accompany Tac squads, scouts or whatever is no better than just running regular GK strike squads or purifiers.

Best way for me is to use them as part of draigo star, getting invisibility off with as a few dices so you enough for the killy stuff like hammer hand and force and extra sanctuary wouldn't hurt. Also you make the 2 attached libs rolled on biomancy, now Tiggy can possibly get endurance, iron Arm and warp speed on himself and unit.

Its so points heavy im not sure its worth it.

Though 2+ to cast might make things worth it.

Its definitely something i want to try

(any fun Power that normally doesn't get used because high cost?)

All the malefic powers provided you can still roll on it xD

Man being able to throw 1 dice to cast many many many powers sounds fun.

How does this work with multiples of the same witch fires?

no book atm

I would take three Librarians all mounted on bikes. They can attach to a biker command squad with stormshields.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I would take three Lubrarians all mounted on bikes. They can attach to a biker command squad with stormshields.

Make em iron hands for 4+ FNP

 Desubot wrote:
Man being able to throw 1 dice to cast many many many powers sounds fun.

How does this work with multiples of the same witch fires?

no book atm

A Psyker can't cast the same power twice
Two different psykers can cast the same power twice
Two psykers in the same unit is yet another example of poor rules writing.

 ionusx wrote:
This formation was already in the hands of dark Angels, it's actually incredibly points top heavy after you start tricking out your librarians and the logic of using it falls apart.

Using the DA one you got exactly the same thing you could get from this one except you got Ezekiel instead of tigs.

This is as much a curse as it is a blessing. Tbh tigs is actually the most affordable part. As stuffing librarians into squads bare of upgrades is stupid and empty and this is just going to have them get killed so now your buying shields, and armor, and bikes, and other shiney baubles and what starts out as a 340ish base cost formation erupts into a nearly 500 point formation. And spending 500 on a bunch of grox that happens to be good at magic is still buying into a bunch of grox.

This is a fun formation for black Templar or sisters but it holds no practical weight in an army of conventional marines.

Heresy.

You can run 3 lvl2 Libs on bikes but you might not get invisibility. And remember only one of them can cast spells, so I think its a waste of the formation special ability on a LVL2 psyker... Tiggy should be auto take and put him in a death star.

I would run it as tiggy and two others, tiggy rolls on telepathy, one divination, and one biomancy. Get the shooting/best primaries powers and tiggy can cast all of them as well as being from the best tree. Add that to an allied detachment and grey knights, new cent star

Now I just need to find alternate scout bike models that I actually like.....

I mean the formation may cost points, but when tiggy (who now has daemonology along with librarians) takes summoning or just lets another lib take it and has a near 100% chance to summon a unit of demons for 3 dice every turn it seems pretty cheap. Actually looking at it more it seems pretty crazy. For 295 points you get a single formation with tig and 2 basic librarians. One lib takes daemon summing, then the other and tiggy roll on telepathy for invis. Clearly you throw them all into the same unit (maybe just a simple grav cent unit) and each turn you get your 5 + D6 dice assuming these are your only psykers. 3 or 4 are used to summon a 90 point daemon unit and the rest can be thrown at invis or used for part of the daemon summoning etc. This is of course at the lowest cost.

I mean even if you take 3 basic libs and have them sits in the backfield with an obsec unit summoning a daemon unit per turn its pretty awesome since you make the formations entire cost back with 2 summons.

SilverSaint wrote:
I mean the formation may cost points, but when tiggy (who now has daemonology) takes summoning and has a near 100% chance to summon a unit of demons for 3 dice every turn it seems pretty cheap.

I probably wouldn't use tiggy to cast though

Might be risking Perils but who cares if it will help you win the game haha.

Also you can just re roll the four dice you used if it got a double. I can see daemons allying it in for the lolz.

Still it is hard to fit it in points wise if you want some of the other goodies, well done in that regard GW. I would only ever take the three to keep the points down

This formation is insane as an ally for AM and such. For less points I'd spend on a nemesis strike force I get the same amount of rolls on t telepathy and a better chance of punching my spells through. You do get slightly worse odds of getting that one spell you really want but it's still a fair amount of rolls on the table. (3x2 as opposed to 2x3)


And the kicker? They'll be white scars, giving hit & run to my blob(s) of choice.

Does strike me as interesting with a bike command squad - but far from guaranteed Invisibility if you go that route. The question being whether the 300+pts investment (for the cheaper end of the formation) is worth it, given that risk. It's, what, (1-((5/6)*(4/5)) = 1/3 for a given librarian to get it, so we're talking 19/27 - or circa 70% - for at least one to roll it. You also then potentially get other useful powers, and get D6+6 warpcharge, and the librarians add force weapon attacks in melee - but you lose out on a bunch of support for the rest of your list, and/or on a key chapter master. Risky, even if it does have a lot of potential when it works.

(EDIT to correct typo in the maths - my results were correct, but I put one of the intermediate numbers down wrong when transcribing it.)

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Man being able to throw 1 dice to cast many many many powers sounds fun.

How does this work with multiples of the same witch fires?

no book atm

A Psyker can't cast the same power twice
Two different psykers can cast the same power twice
Two psykers in the same unit is yet another example of poor rules writing.

There's nothing poor about it. Multiple psykers with the same power in the same unit are just wasted. This is intentional.

Of course, the real flaws in this formation is that someone with an assassin can just shut it down and now many of your points went into psykers instead of into tricked out grav cents and MSU lists are going to laugh as you remove 100ish points a turn with your death star while they ignore you and pick off the rest of your army.

The way that the DA could run it, was to have as many libs in a Land Raider as possible and put a measly level 1 lib on a bike with a PFG. Keep it next to the raider, and enjoy all of the powers coming from inside. With a 4++ and AV 14 goodness.

dress up your conclave librarians as chaos wizards… boom!

Mavnas wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Man being able to throw 1 dice to cast many many many powers sounds fun.

How does this work with multiples of the same witch fires?

no book atm

A Psyker can't cast the same power twice
Two different psykers can cast the same power twice
Two psykers in the same unit is yet another example of poor rules writing.

There's nothing poor about it. Multiple psykers with the same power in the same unit are just wasted. This is intentional.

Of course, the real flaws in this formation is that someone with an assassin can just shut it down and now many of your points went into psykers instead of into tricked out grav cents and MSU lists are going to laugh as you remove 100ish points a turn with your death star while they ignore you and pick off the rest of your army.

Or you know out position it.. its 1 model (IIRC unique?) 6" movement 12" anti psyker bubble, with T4. enough snap shots into it will kill it.

 Desubot wrote:
Or you know out position it.. its 1 model (IIRC unique?) 6" movement 12" anti psyker bubble, with T4. enough snap shots into it will kill it.

Right so the turn it comes down in a drop pod, nerfs your invisibility and gets your psyker heavy star killed due to the enemy army shooting it... or even just the attacks the assassin itself gets by being that close to so many psykers.

You know that the 3+ pyskers dont need to start off in a single unit together. and that they can be in different units and in vehicles too right?

Love the digital dex. Got it last night 11:30 CST.

Anyway you are all "we are happy for ya"

So the new formation, Gladius, requires a core which is the demi-company and an auxiliary. The librarian formation is a command formation. Which stinks because I really wanted to make the company for all the free OS units and use it but in a 3 source format you cannot.

The fact that all SM librarians have access to Divinity makes the formation a little easier to use as you don't have to worry about not having the re-roll to hit power. Also if you use the demi-company you get access to the combat doctrines. Each gives the ability to re-roll 1's to hit the whole army and all misses to the support choice that it is used.

That being said grav cents will get two shooting rounds of re-roll all misses and re-roll all 1's without the use of divinity. You can therefore roll more often on the non-divinity charts and even take a chance on Sanctic for Gate of Eternity. You can manifest it on 2+. Less chance of perils on three dice.