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Not sure which forum I should put this in, since it will contain questions that I could see fit into 3 separate forums (general, YMDC, tactics), but since tactics is the main component I figure here is best.

Quick introduction: not played at all since 5th, been looking over the different 7th codices of factions I played or been interested in playing (Eldar, DE, harlequins, Orks) and just not really felt super excited about any list I've come up with (Harlequin codex is soooo restrictive, DE codex feels very shallow unless going for the coven stuff which I'm not super interested in, Eldar codex is solid and seems to allow a lot of builds, but I enjoy being a special snowflake and I've never liked the Eldar vehicle aesthetic overly much, preferring the slick DE style). Overarchingly I've felt an annoyance at how streamlined a lot of unit entries have gotten.
Anyway, I finally stumbled across Corsairs. They existed when I last played, I think, but the attitude towards FW back then was really dismissive compared to now so I never really looked at them...

... But holy gak this is exactly what I want from a 40k army! As sleek, fragile and predatorily hardhitting as the DE, tonnes of options for customization and sweet as hell jetpack models.

OK, so questions:

Rules:

1) Most up to date rules? IA11 + FAQs? Do I use the updated vehicle options from IA:A 2013 or the ones in IA11? Been checking out the rules from various sources but would like to know which ones are actually current before I buy a ton of books that turn out to be not the latest set of rules.
2) When something refers to Codex: Eldar (for example it says I need codex: eldar to use them right at the very start of their rules), does that mean I need to use the 6th edition codex, or do I just use the new Eldar Craftworlds book? IIRC this is a similar rules issue to the Iyanden supplement, no? Does that mean technically corsairs aren't even legal anymore? Tried searching for this but nothing has come up (presumably because they are a really niche army).
3) Does this mean if I take a unit of harlequins from this book, they would have the old automatic Veil with a SS?

Unit selection/composition

The prince is quite expensive, I wonder if in a list with so much inherent access to deepstrike (now that all jetpack/jump stuff can do it), for smaller points games he might not be worth it? Still, void strike is sweet and lots of options.
Retinue seems not great? Fusion pistols just mean they'll blow themselves up with the vehicle, and they can't really take anything that seems scary in HTH or at range, cant assault after deepstrike so cant even hide in combat... Missing anything?

Voidstorm Squad: 6x with double fusion guns and jetpacks seems like an OK use for them? Melta bombs or hw grenades? (102 pts, 117 if you take melta/hw grenades) Might it be that taking a unit of firedragons from the Outcast 0-1 selection option and nominating them for deepstrike via the prince is more reliable thanks to battlefocus?

Corsair Squad
So many options available to the basic corsair squad.... 5 man w jetpack and up to 1 flamer or fusion gun and 1 EML or SC... 10 man with up to twice that. In a dedicated venom, or a dedicated falcon..... Given that the cost of upgrading them with jetpacks is static (25 pts for the squad regardless of size), it would seem that if we take them with jetpacks we get a bigger return on our investment the bigger the squad is. However it's still a really fragile squad, I worry that if its that big it might have a hard time efficiently hiding?

Not feeling the venoms, feels like its either between small squad in a DT Falcon, with a fusion gun, or bigger squad with jetpacks and SCannon? Comparing their output to Windriders they obv fall short, but it's still not a bad bit of dakka on a mobile troop choice :x
Since they don't get the new assault 3 lasblasters (assault 2 instead), I guess it's a bit closer between whether we want to trade them in for a shuriken catapult or not? I feel like they don't really want to get within 12" of most enemy units even with their 2d6 jetpack movement.

Wasps - scatterlasers or shuriken cannons? 10 pts for 2 shuriken cannons is pretty damn cheap (180 pts for 18 s6 ap5 bladestorm shots vs 255 for 24 s6 ap6 with scatterlasers). They seem like a really solid troops choice, to the point that it makes me wonder if 5 man corsairs isnt the way to go even with jetpacks just to unlock additional wasps.

Hornets loadout I guess depends a lot on whether I get to use the IA11 pointvalues or the IA:A ones... If it's the latter, 10 pts for 2 pulse lasers seems really hard to beat, otherwise scatterlasers? I assume we aren't sticking 35 point holofields on them, or is that incorrect? Feels like they start getting expensive for their fragility quite fast.

This is getting quite long and I could just keep asking questions because all the remaining units I've got like no idea about, but I think I'll leave it here for now and hope some people who are either just more 40k experienced than myself (shouldn't be hard to find ) or Corsair players themselves, stop by and drop some knowledge.

Finding these guys is like christmas come early, it's 100% what I want out of this game in both modelling, fluff and gameplay terms

1. The vehicles did get an update in IA 2013; good news for hornets, bad news for Warp Hunters. You'd need both books to have all the rules for all units.

2. Corsairs suffer from lack of updates, some of the rules are definitely outdated compared to the current Eldar codex. As they never were updated we have no official source telling us what codex to look at. The Eldar codex doesn't even have that name anymore, Codex Eldar Craftworlds. The most logical way is to take the latest rules available IMO.

3. No updates, so there's no official stance. Personally I'd go for the newest rules for all other codexes. Thats unfortunate as I think the old harlequins were at least easier to play.



Jetpackes as basic troops is fun to play with and not totally useless. It does become expensive fast for for fragile troops. A 5 man team with a missile launcher is still cheapish for 60 points but that's no longer a fun unit.
Prince is awesome for Nightlight & Deep Strike rules.
Hornets with Pulse Lasers are cheap now, good unit.
Wasps are good.

Most of the other units are not competitive compared to Eldar or other armies. They really need an update.
Compared to Eldar they now lack battle focus and rending basic guns to name just 2 things.

Corsairs aren't "competitive". Might some tricks, but too little for too many points.

That said, they look awesome and are fun.

If the book refers to another codex for rules, they actually mean the book before last. That said, RAW, it could be argued that they'd use the latest (newest Craftworlder book).

Unfortunately, the things that'd matter most (ShuriKats, LasBlasters) are in the IA11 book. So RAW, you must use those. And those are terrible. RAI and reasoanble-homerules, though, could arguably use CWE's most recent book. Which helps a lot. (IIRC, FW said to use the CWE book last edition via email)

Either way, they pay too much for everything. First, note that Corsairs are just Guardians. Without battle focus. And possibly without Blade storm too. For the same points.

Also note that you pay a flat fee to give the *unit* jetpacks. So you pay less per model giving a 10man unit jetpacks than a 5man. I still usually field 5mans, though.

Thanks for the replies, was worried it would be a completely dead army by now.

Jetpackes as basic troops is fun to play with and not totally useless. It does become expensive fast for for fragile troops. A 5 man team with a missile launcher is still cheapish for 60 points but that's no longer a fun unit.

With a transport then, right? Since you said no longer a fun unit I assume that means no jetpacks at least

Prince is awesome for Nightlight & Deep Strike rules.

Any tips on how to kit him out? His ranged options aren't very impressive compared to an autarch, but they dont have much melee in the entire list for him to go with. Some kind of counter assault small blade sworn squad? Or just keep him cheap?

Also note that you pay a flat fee to give the *unit* jetpacks. So you pay less per model giving a 10man unit jetpacks than a 5man. I still usually field 5mans, though.

Yes I noticed that, ROI much better on a bigger squad. Seems like unlocking more squads of the wasps would be more important tho? Even though the impact of the points efficiency is probably bigger at smaller points levels which would be an argument for the reverse...

There's some potential good news though. IA11 is no longer for sale - recently they've removed old versions and released a 2nd edition for them so, with any luck, IA11 2nd Edition will be released later this year/early next...

The 60 point squad would just be a dull objective camper that could still shoot a missile.
I'd keep the prince cheap and put him in a squad that could make use of his LD value by leaving out an exarch. If you run allies there's plenty of options where he would be useful for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:
There's some potential good news though. IA11 is no longer for sale - recently they've removed old versions and released a 2nd edition for them so, with any luck, IA11 2nd Edition will be released later this year/early next...

Thats hopeful, thanks

Adding a Prince to an Aspect squad will cost you Battle Focus, and often another Aspect trait.

The best way to do Eldar Corsairs is not to use the Corsair rules.

Use an Eldar CAD with jetbikes, jump infantry and skimmers, Allie in Dark Eldar with plenty of skimmers (but avoid using heamonculi coven type units)

Much more variety and better rules.

Plus this:
http://glennsgwmodels.blogspot.com/search/label/Eldar%20and%20Dark%20Eldar

@Galef
Very cool, very different from the direction I wanted to head (you retained a lot of the Aspect warrior feel, while I wanted to go more in the guardian/kabalite warrior direction in terms of looks) in but still really cool (especially like the harlequin conversions).

My plan was to try to use both rules --- I.E build it up in a way that it could be used as a regular Eldar or DE force with minimal additions/magnetizing, since I reckon that many places wouldnt let me use that list anyway.


Edit: the starweaver / raider conversion is sweet!

Bharring wrote:
Adding a Prince to an Aspect squad will cost you Battle Focus, and often another Aspect trait.

I was thinking of DE troops with ld8 or beasts and grotesques.

What a coincidence

Oh. My. Yes.

You just made my day!

 zedmeister wrote:
What a coincidence

Wonderful news ! Hope they remain as flavourful as they currently are.