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I was in GW o the weekend and was playing a few small games (750-1000pts). The first one I played was against this guy's Space Wolves. The first problem was the fact that he insisted that he was running a CAD, despite the fact that he only had one compulsory troops choice. After a confrontation, he finally gave in and agreed to run it as an unbound list. The second thing I noticed was that his army was quite large for a 750pt list. I suspected that his list may be larger than 750pts and (kind of passive-aggressively) said "Your list is kind of large for 750". He then said that he wasn't putting any upgrades on anything and I thought nothing more of it. This was until he began running upgrades on all his units (Including thunder hammers and storm shields on all 6 of his Thunderwolves). Although I got more objectives than him (5-4), he tabled me, meaning he won. I became very suspicious after this and asked the guy who was playing him after me to ask him to read out his list. As he read out his list, I was sat behind him putting it into Battlescribe, expecting it to be 100-300 larger than 750pts. I was completely shocked by the truth. This motherf*cker was running a 1500pts list, twice as much as the game's point limit! I'm not sure how to deal with it, as it sort of makes me seem like an uptight, sore loser to point it out. However, he has to be called out on this bs, because as we speak, he continues playing games with a list that is twice the point limit and also continues to insist that his list is bound, despite it not being bound.

You don't play him again, period.

We had a player like that at my local GW. only played him once. i added up just the basics he had, which was 1000 points more than me.

you can either let everyone learn their own lesson, put the word out to people, or play him again and confront him at the start of the game.

A word with the store manager might be appropriate? If it's actually in a GW.

Why didn't you ask for his list before the game?

Shouldn't that be the first step after you even agree to a game?

You were probably playing eldar and deserved it.

If he was running a list that was twice the size of what you agreed on, there is no way you'll seem like a sore loser. He's cheating hugely.

I get that you want to vent and all, but what's the point of threads like this? Surely you would be able to work it out for yourself that you simply don't play cheaters without needing the internet to back you up.

Blacksails makes a really good point too. Going over lists pre-game is pretty much Warhammer 101.

It does seem pretty open and shut, don't play him again, have a word with the manager, and check lists beforehand in future. Job done.

 Frozocrone wrote:
You don't play him again, period.

This. Tell everyone why you won't play him. When he asks for a game, tell him no and then tell him why.

Problem solved.

[MOD EDIT - Not even as a joke. - Alpharius]

 natpri771 wrote:
As he read out his list, I was sat behind him putting it into Battlescribe, expecting it to be 100-300 larger than 750pts. I was completely shocked by the truth. This motherf*cker was running a 1500pts list, twice as much as the game's point limit!

Even our worst cheater/TFG didn't usually go over by that much. Are you sure the guy heard he agreed to a 750 points game?

agree to play him.
let him deploy first. then concede the game and play someone else.

do this as many times as he will let you. He obviously needs the confidence boost.

Cheating in this type of game bewilders me.

[MOD EDIT - No. Just...no. - Alpharius]

Tell him that you know he doubled points on you, and then tell everyone else in the store what he does. So not only will he never play you again, but, depending on your reputation in the store, he will probably not get many games in at all unless he starts actively turning his style around.

He will probably have to start showing his lists before he gets anymore games in.

I'd have called him out right as you put it into Battlescribe when it happened. Next time ask for his list and check it beforehand.

Rosebuddy wrote:
If he was running a list that was twice the size of what you agreed on, there is no way you'll seem like a sore loser. He's cheating hugely.

No such thing as cheating when one plays against someone using eldar or necron.

Isn't there a SW formation that gives free stuff to WG and TWC, that is CAD and requires no or only 1 grey hunter unit, by the way. Champions of Funris or Fanris , something called like that. Could be FW though.

 deviantduck wrote:
You were probably playing eldar and deserved it.

Makumba wrote:
No such thing as cheating when one plays against someone using eldar or necron

I love it when people say nonsense like this so I know to disregard them forever on all other issues.

OP, you need to make everyone aware of this behavior. If this guy has done it to you, he's done it to others. Let the store manager know. Everyone needs to be warned that he's TFG and if you ever want to play him again, you need to make him show you his list, codex, and all other rules sources - so you can verify that he's actually following the rules. He's made it clear that he cannot be trusted to play fairly without oversight. I would personally try to get him barred from playing at the store.

 natpri771 wrote:
... The second thing I noticed was that his army was quite large for a 750pt list. I suspected that his list may be larger than 750pts and (kind of passive-aggressively) said "Your list is kind of large for 750". He then said that he wasn't putting any upgrades on anything and I thought nothing more of it.

This was your mistake. If you suspect your opponent isn't playing by the established parameters of the game then you are fully capable of asking him to produce his list. If he doesn't have a written list, then ask to see his book and go through it. If you've "proven" his list to be illegal then you have a choice to either go ahead and play anyway or not.

How could you look at 1500 pts of any marine variant and not know right away it was over 750. I could see if maybe it was your first game against like admech, but marines are pretty easy tell usually.

Australia still has GWs?!

If he be cheating then just dont play with him. simple.

Learn from it and trade lists.

wow, so many troll answers...

Before ruining this guys reputation, get a list of SW formations and make sure that he actually did cheat. I've seen some pretty recent ones come out that give a boat-load of stuff.

 Filch wrote:
wow, so many troll answers...

To be fair, other than "don't play him", there isn't much to say. Also my previous question stands. The op seems a little like trolling or click bait. Not saying it is, but it does smell of it.

Next time you play him put out everything you own on the table. I mean everything. Make it obvious that you are way over points but say nothing.

If he says "We are playing 750pts." respond by saying "I'm not using any upgrades". Await response.

If he still complains point out that if he can be a dick and doesn't need to abide by the chosen points limit then why should you?

Why go through all the legwork of adding up his list if you weren't going to call him out on it?

Considering his list was at 1500pts....isn't it possible he thought it was a 1500pt game?

Not trying to cover for the guy...I'm sure he wan't a pleasure to play with. Just asking some questions.

Upon rereading your original post, I see you did ask him if it was a 750 pt list. Sucks he feels he needs to cheat/win to have fun, but you really should have called him out on his crap. Or was it Chuck Norris? I could undrrstand not calling out Chuck on some shady crap. Who wants a roundhouse to the face? Not this guy...

 pwntallica wrote:
How could you look at 1500 pts of any marine variant and not know right away it was over 750. I could see if maybe it was your first game against like admech, but marines are pretty easy tell usually.

You say that, but my 1500 CSM list has a Land Raider, Vindicator, Rhino, Daemon Prince, and 20 infantry models, all of which start off in the transports.

Nvm.

 -Shrike- wrote:

 pwntallica wrote:
How could you look at 1500 pts of any marine variant and not know right away it was over 750. I could see if maybe it was your first game against like admech, but marines are pretty easy tell usually.

You say that, but my 1500 CSM list has a Land Raider, Vindicator, Rhino, Daemon Prince, and 20 infantry models, all of which start off in the transports.

I fail to see your point. It is rather easy to just look at your tanks and dp and see you are over 750. Even if they start in their transports, unless you go out of your way to hide that from your opponent, they should still be aware they are part of your army.

If in the op's case, if it was hidden off the table models combined with the claim of "no upgrades, lol jk here are th/ss suprise", maybe I could see it. But realistically, baring higher point formation shinanigans, it should be easy to see if an opponent is packing double the points of a well established popular faction.

This is why I like hard copy lists. And for those who like to build lists "on the fly" Its easy to have 15 different lists in a small binder with say the awesome 7th ed reference sheets by Arbitorlan and some scratch paper for notes/score keeping.