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Some people really need to dial down the ridiculousness in here, please!

I appreciate a good joke - but let's stay on the right side of good taste, OK?

Anyway...

Some people REALLY need to win.

You usually find this out the first time you play them.

Then you know not to play them again.

 -Shrike- wrote:

 pwntallica wrote:
How could you look at 1500 pts of any marine variant and not know right away it was over 750. I could see if maybe it was your first game against like admech, but marines are pretty easy tell usually.

You say that, but my 1500 CSM list has a Land Raider, Vindicator, Rhino, Daemon Prince, and 20 infantry models, all of which start off in the transports.

That makes sense, but if I saw all that stuff in an agreed upon 750 point game, I think it would be obvious something was amiss. Also per your sentence structure, how'd you get a Daemon Prince and a Vindicator in a transport?

 Icculus wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 pwntallica wrote:
How could you look at 1500 pts of any marine variant and not know right away it was over 750. I could see if maybe it was your first game against like admech, but marines are pretty easy tell usually.

You say that, but my 1500 CSM list has a Land Raider, Vindicator, Rhino, Daemon Prince, and 20 infantry models, all of which start off in the transports.

That makes sense, but if I saw all that stuff in an agreed upon 750 point game, I think it would be obvious something was amiss. Also per your sentence structure, how'd you get a Daemon Prince and a Vindicator in a transport?

It wasn't easy, kind of like moving a couch down the stairs, but it eventually worked out

Well when you are newer its harder to tell. and when an army is new or revamped things can look a bit different but eventually you should be able to see something is amiss the more you play it.

NOTE: I've already deleted more than a few 'joke' posts referencing actual physical violence.

In short - don't.

Too bad, I arrived late to the party. Seem like the mod already deleted all the fun (troll) answer lol.

But seriously dude, when you play someone who have double point, you shouldnt come to internet to find out what to do. Just call him out, and stop playing this guy.

I ran into the same situation in a doubles game that was supposed to be 1k each but my opponanta friend brought a 1500 pt eldar army for his "1k" army.

I asked the guy about it since I was doing the math in my head and I had told him that excluding like 3 his units he was already at 1k and that was without wargear.

Needless to say my opponent (who is also a friend of mine) insisted it was an accident and that he wouldn't intentionally cheat.

Either way the best way is to ask for written lists up front or on battle scribe, refuse to play people you are unfamiliar with won't provide the lists, and don't be scared to ask someone to show you specific rules they are using that you are unsure of.

Once you establish a few people you enjoyed games with you can be a bit more lax with these rules. I have friends I play games with that we never bother checking lists because we honestly only play to drink scotch and escape our women for a short time.

 Icculus wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 pwntallica wrote:
How could you look at 1500 pts of any marine variant and not know right away it was over 750. I could see if maybe it was your first game against like admech, but marines are pretty easy tell usually.

You say that, but my 1500 CSM list has a Land Raider, Vindicator, Rhino, Daemon Prince, and 20 infantry models, all of which start off in the transports.

That makes sense, but if I saw all that stuff in an agreed upon 750 point game, I think it would be obvious something was amiss. Also per your sentence structure, how'd you get a Daemon Prince and a Vindicator in a transport?

With great difficulty. I let the Daemon Prince drive his Land Raider (Daemonic Possession, right?) and I use my tactical genius skills to hide the Vindicator in the cupola of the Rhino.

you know there have been times where I have cheated on accident. I forgot that I don't have this upgrade or unit that I normally use. But It has never been a huge point advantage type accident. But almost 1k points more ? How can you not notice you are playing 1k more than everyone else? lol

I always make sure that my opponent reviews my army list. Last time I played, my opponent pointed out I had shorted myself a Chaos Sorcerer.

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
you know there have been times where I have cheated on accident. I forgot that I don't have this upgrade or unit that I normally use. But It has never been a huge point advantage type accident. But almost 1k points more ? How can you not notice you are playing 1k more than everyone else? lol

It was done intentionally, in all honesty it is easy to slip up on a piece of wargear especially when you usually equip it, but fielding double the points is just such a huge discrepancy that it must be intentional.

Wait...how did you not know he was doing this? Like, a dude cheating and taking free upgrades a couple times is one thing but double the point limit? How...?

And this is why you exchange lists ore game.

 Desubot wrote:
Australia still has GWs?!

If he be cheating then just dont play with him. simple.

Learn from it and trade lists.

Australia still has 3 man stores :p

I'm more surprised that someone else didn't call him out. In my area we usually have a lot of guys observing games when they're aren't prepping for their own or painting.

I've even done it a few times. Someone who is newer will ask a rules question to a guy that is notorious for misinterpreting rules. We're almost sure he does it intentionally, but might just be negligence on his part. I'll just casually interrupt and tell them where it's at in the rule book, so he doesn't just take the guy's word on it.

Had it happen to me, even in local tournaments. A guy will come up just to watch and ask what the rules for the tourney is because he didn't think the guy's army was legal.

When I originally implemented the "no list, no game" rule, I got a lot of flak, but I made the rule at our flgs to stop certain people from doing exactly this, it also stopped pre game list tailoring, which is one of the most annoying things ever.

The only exceptions are new people to the game, where we help them if they ask to make a.list and play other new people, and dropouts but then we make a list and throw names into a hat, Bob is playing Greg, random kind of thing.

Okay I am a SW player, mostly, but everytime I hear about blatant cheaters, it seems to be SW players?

Its important that there's at least some kind of list of what's in an army. I had a friendly game a few weeks back, and he just did his off memory. When I put the army into battlescribe he was around 300pts over. It wasn't so bad because he likes fun lists and I lost due to tactical errors, but mistakes happen.

 Formosa wrote:
When I originally implemented the "no list, no game" rule, I got a lot of flak, but I made the rule at our flgs to stop certain people from doing exactly this, it also stopped pre game list tailoring, which is one of the most annoying things ever.

The only exceptions are new people to the game, where we help them if they ask to make a.list and play other new people, and dropouts but then we make a list and throw names into a hat, Bob is playing Greg, random kind of thing.

The only people who could possibly have an issue with that rule is people who were going to cheat... I don't see any other reason to complain about 'no list, no game'. It's just common sense.

It did occur a few times specially with new players that they've counted something twice or that for some reason they din't count a particular unit, even though it is listed on the list and so on.

But usually its eiter an upgrade on a Sarg or a Rhino.

more then 700points thats a bit much for a mere " oversight"...

Maybe he heard 1750?

This seems a little ridiculous... surely you just call him on it at the time?

I'm afraid in these circumstances, there is only one course of action.

 jokerkd wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Australia still has GWs?!

If he be cheating then just dont play with him. simple.

Learn from it and trade lists.

Australia still has 3 man stores :p

And 3 man prices!

Keep playing it. Make it your strategy to give him the most ridiculous, hugest wins ever.

If you play tactical objectives take lots of weak characters/psykers/flyers/fortifications to help him score points.

Position weak low imitative units near objectives so he can move/assault/step up/consolidate on to that objective from a great distance. Invent tactics that are designed to give him maximum benefit (instead of just letting him faceroll, help him faceroll).

Make a game of seeing how big a win you can give him. I think it could be entertaining.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Australia still has GWs?!

If he be cheating then just dont play with him. simple.

Learn from it and trade lists.

Australia still has 3 man stores :p

And 3 man prices!

HEY-OOOOH!

Play a 1000+ point game. Use Ultramarines. Take the following core:
1 Captain
1 Chaplain
6 Tac squads
2 Assault Squads
2 Dev Squads
3 Scout Squads

Then take a free Razorback for every unit that can take one.
At 1000 points, you are legally fielding 1545 points.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
When I originally implemented the "no list, no game" rule, I got a lot of flak, but I made the rule at our flgs to stop certain people from doing exactly this, it also stopped pre game list tailoring, which is one of the most annoying things ever.

The only exceptions are new people to the game, where we help them if they ask to make a.list and play other new people, and dropouts but then we make a list and throw names into a hat, Bob is playing Greg, random kind of thing.

The only people who could possibly have an issue with that rule is people who were going to cheat... I don't see any other reason to complain about 'no list, no game'. It's just common sense.

Even for last minute pickup games I always insist on a list. Just jot some crap down!

 Jimsolo wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
When I originally implemented the "no list, no game" rule, I got a lot of flak, but I made the rule at our flgs to stop certain people from doing exactly this, it also stopped pre game list tailoring, which is one of the most annoying things ever.

The only exceptions are new people to the game, where we help them if they ask to make a.list and play other new people, and dropouts but then we make a list and throw names into a hat, Bob is playing Greg, random kind of thing.

The only people who could possibly have an issue with that rule is people who were going to cheat... I don't see any other reason to complain about 'no list, no game'. It's just common sense.

Even for last minute pickup games I always insist on a list. Just jot some crap down!

Most people carry around a few lists anyway.

Unless I know the point value, mission, and any special restrictions/modifications, I never bring a pre-made list. That is because the rules require you to first determine your mission, then build your army. As such when doing pick-up games, I generate my list after we roll for mission.

I still have it written down of course.

 Happyjew wrote:
Unless I know the point value, mission, and any special restrictions/modifications, I never bring a pre-made list. That is because the rules require you to first determine your mission, then build your army. As such when doing pick-up games, I generate my list after we roll for mission.

I still have it written down of course.

Wait, so you actually don't use an army you made for a previous game because it would RAW be against the rules?

I guess if you're hanging out at a club waiting for a table to free up you can make your list while waiting. I just find it eats into play-time myself.

I love that people are trying to justify this guy's blatant cheating. "Maybe he thought it was"..... Bullgak. How would you not notice that your army was vastly different in cost to your opponet's? "Well, it sure looks like my SMs outnumber his (insert army here). Surely he must have every upgrade imaginable." The OP should have asked for a list, or at the very least called him out on it. I would have said saomething quietly at first, then if he didn't own up and apologize, I would let every other player know this guy is twenty pounds of crap in a ten pound bag. There is never any excuse for cheating. This is supposed to be a friendly game, even at tournement level. If you need a win that bad just play a video game with cheat codes.