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Had a chance to thumb through the new SM codex today..
... Exactly as I predicted. More of the same garbage as what other factions are suffering through, only worse.
Sure, all the rules are in the back of the book, that's great because for all it's worth you might as well tear the book in half and chuck the first part.
I picked up the Orks codex shortly after it came out, and I put it right back down a little while later, gave it away in fact, because after I realized I didn't want to paint a million Orks I also realized the book had no entertainment value either.
This new Space Marine book is exactly the same for me. I'm not going to even bother stealing the .pdf haha!
I'm not even concerned about the rules because frankly that just doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is quality. This codex looks and feels like something designed for a 14 year old. Maybe if the codex was say... $35, then I'd suffer the bad rules just to stay current. But for a whopping $70, which may as well be $100, this book simply isn't worth it.
They could give IH an army wide 3++, RG could get Shrouded for the whole darn game and I still would not pay $70 for this abomination.
Books everywhere shuddered with embarrassment the day Codex: Space Marines was published.
alex87 wrote: Cool thread... I give it two pages. replies
Ftfy
"If you wait a few months, they'll pick one of the worst codexes and they'll nerf almost everything, its an abstract sort of balance, but it's the sort of balance gw likes... "
alex87 wrote: Cool thread... I give it two pages. replies
Ftfy
Wouldnt say that.
Im fine with the book. I Really dont need sweeping changes to everything. but added formation and prices changes here and there. all the squadron and squadron bonuses?
Its not D weapons paloosa so at least i wont get hate for playing them like eldar or harvest crons
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 00:32:32
That's the beauty of not buying right out of the gate. You saved 70 bucks by previewing someone elses book. *shrug* I'm not sure why the lack of 'quality' surprises you since all the books have been following this trend. Not sure why SM is the breaking point.
Edit: Though I still don't get the idea that each new book needs to be a sweeping change to the entire faction, when that isn't often needed. GW often misses what needs a fix and what doesn't. But mostly the new books just need to adjust point costs, maybe add some new wargear, add a few new options. But an entire overhaul? Why?
Edit 2: Though I can understand the anger about losing fluff/art and overall having a 'smaller' book for the same price. That should change.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/24 00:42:03
Melevolence wrote: That's the beauty of not buying right out of the gate. You saved 70 bucks by previewing someone elses book. *shrug* I'm not sure why the lack of 'quality' surprises you since all the books have been following this trend. Not sure why SM is the breaking point.
Edit: Though I still don't get the idea that each new book needs to be a sweeping change to the entire faction, when that isn't often needed. GW often misses what needs a fix and what doesn't. But mostly the new books just need to adjust point costs, maybe add some new wargear, add a few new options. But an entire overhaul? Why?
Edit 2: Though I can understand the anger about losing fluff/art and overall having a 'smaller' book for the same price. That should change.
For such minor teaks maybe they shouldn't pump out new books every X number of months? If I was still buying GW rules I'd be pretty irate that by the time I got my faction updated a new book came out invalidating my prior builds. Especially since my armies tend to run large (5000+ points). I have no complaints but I can see why others might.
Melevolence wrote: That's the beauty of not buying right out of the gate. You saved 70 bucks by previewing someone elses book. *shrug* I'm not sure why the lack of 'quality' surprises you since all the books have been following this trend. Not sure why SM is the breaking point.
Edit: Though I still don't get the idea that each new book needs to be a sweeping change to the entire faction, when that isn't often needed. GW often misses what needs a fix and what doesn't. But mostly the new books just need to adjust point costs, maybe add some new wargear, add a few new options. But an entire overhaul? Why?
Edit 2: Though I can understand the anger about losing fluff/art and overall having a 'smaller' book for the same price. That should change.
For such minor teaks maybe they shouldn't pump out new books every X number of months? If I was still buying GW rules I'd be pretty irate that by the time I got my faction updated a new book came out invalidating my prior builds. Especially since my armies tend to run large (5000+ points). I have no complaints but I can see why others might.
I never said they should have such a rapid cycle. It's not good design. They wouldn't need rapid release cycles if they were good at writing rules. And I never said they were good at writing rules.
In a perfect world, the first Codex we ever bought would be sufficient with perhaps some FAQ down the line, or if there needed to be drastic change, then a new book comes out.
But that's a totally different discussion.
Edit: Also, we aren't talkiing about invalidated builds. The OP was talking about how much the rules didn't change, and the decrease in book content (Fluff and art) for the same price. My argument was the books shouldn't be changing much from book to book in terms of unit stats and rules (because in most cases, the armies don't need drastic changes), but I agree that the fluff/art shouldn't be cut if the price isn't going to drop.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 00:59:05
I'm having more fun with my droid army than my Eldar at this point. I custom made my codex and everyone has more fun playing it than my Eldar. I generally like the base 40K game. Its when you add too much where the game gets so complex. Boil away about 90% of the special abilities and you have a somewhat decent game.
The purpose of your thread is what, exactly? You felt compelled to spread gak on a public forum? You feel your opinion is somehow better or more valuable and we should all bow down to it and thank you for sharing it and imparting it to us?
News flash bud: Nobody cares.
I'm not a white knight on here, I call a spade a spade be it GW or Joe-random-poster No. 4. That said, It's vitriol like this which makes me happy I only play with a close group of friends who enjoy the hobby and fluff as much as we do playing games of 40k with each other.
And folks wonder why I've got a post count as low a I do despite joining this site in Fething 2006.
To each their own, but if you're going to get this upset about something, maybe you should avoid it all together?
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
Any person has the option of pausing their 40k and only playing 6th Edition for instance. Sure, you can do that, but if you showed up with the 6th Edition codex you wouldn't be across the table from me. So what that it's a rehash? So what if the fluff is boring? The fluff in codecies have been boring since the first one I picked up back in 3rd Edition when GW still had a sense of humor. These are rulebooks, not novels. Do you also read the instruction pamphlet on a video game and complain about the lack of story? Or on the side of a medicine bottle?
If you have no interest in 40k moving forward then play Oldhammer with whoever you can find that agrees, but 40k has shown itself to not care about quality these days. There are a lot of issues in the new SM codex that make it a hassle to play, but that's just how it goes now. Finding relaxed players that are willing to fudge the rules to make them work needs to be the norm, and if it is, then the rulebook does just fine. Not perfect by any means, but not bad enough to rustle my jimmies.
Mad at the declining quality of the codices? Yeah, but not in a life altering way.
I believe I present a valid point, and if I'm a hater for disliking the way my favourite codex turned out then I guess I'll just hate away.
@Red_Wings You ought to go into broadcasting eh? You have all the news. I'm so bad for talking gak in a house full of gak talkers aren't I? In a place meant for talking gak no less!
Why is codex Space Marines the tipping point? Who said it was? I'm just really disappointed that this codex, like all other new books before it, is a pile of junk. I can't say this makes me very excited for any other new books either. So what, wait around for a new Chaos book and have it turn out to be Codex: Spikey Marines? Can't wait to see all that old art get the colour wash!
Did I advocate sweeping changes with each codex? Hmm, no I don't think I did. But I did question the validity of paying $70 for the same rehashed stories didn't I?
And what on earth is wrong with writing new stories to go into the books? I'm not saying we have to be like comic book movies and constantly retell the origins story, but why do I want to read the exact same thing about each Chapter every new edition? What happens after Pedro gets his Chapter blown up? How do the UM finish off the Tyranids after the Battle for Macragge? Does Debbie do Dallas or is that just a saying?
Furthermore, why the hell did we need a new book anyways if the only thing they did was fiddle a few points here and there, add formations, and pour Gravy on everything? Couldn't all these "updates" have simply gone into a supplement?
What I don't get is why I'm the apparently the only person here who is disgusted by the obvious drop in quality in ALL the new codices.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 01:53:22
Not having seen this book, I'm finding it hard to understand from your posts what is wrong with it. You don't like it, and it is bad, it should feel bad. it's not as good as it could be..
Why?
I don't mean to say show us on the doll where the codex touched you...
I would just appreciate an explanation of what's wrong with it. The proofreading, the layout, the print quality? Contents, stats?
The formations that the new Space marine book has brought to the table are arguably more broken than what they gave Eldar and Necrons. People are just sick of the arms race at this point.
Mad at the declining quality of the codices? Yeah, but not in a life altering way.
I believe I present a valid point, and if I'm a hater for disliking the way my favourite codex turned out then I guess I'll just hate away.
@Red_Wings You ought to go into broadcasting eh? You have all the news. I'm so bad for talking gak in a house full of gak talkers aren't I? In a place meant for talking gak no less!
Why is codex Space Marines the tipping point? Who said it was? I'm just really disappointed that this codex, like all other new books before it, is a pile of junk. I can't say this makes me very excited for any other new books either. So what, wait around for a new Chaos book and have it turn out to be Codex: Spikey Marines? Can't wait to see all that old art get the colour wash!
Did I advocate sweeping changes with each codex? Hmm, no I don't think I did. But I did question the validity of paying $70 for the same rehashed stories didn't I?
And what on earth is wrong with writing new stories to go into the books? I'm not saying we have to be like comic book movies and constantly retell the origins story, but why do I want to read the exact same thing about each Chapter every new edition? What happens after Pedro gets his Chapter blown up? How do the UM finish off the Tyranids after the Battle for Macragge? Does Debbie do Dallas or is that just a saying?
To be fair, like others have said, stories and such belong in the novels. These are, after all, the RULE books. Not novela. I agree that the books NEED to be cheaper. While the books are often very well done, such as having beautiful bindings and cover art, and I love how smooth the pages feel and stuff, there isn't enough content to justify their prices. The books should have enough fluff to give you a sense of what the faction is, and their motives, and a little about their origins, but not their entire history as well as every detail of every battle/every war they have been a part of. You buy rule books for rules, not info that jacks the price of the game up.
If anything, GW should do the 'codecies' in two different books and cut their prices way down. Make one book that is JUST the rules for your faction, then make separate books with flushed out history/details/art of the codecies as a seperate book.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 01:54:50
Mad at the declining quality of the codices? Yeah, but not in a life altering way.
I believe I present a valid point, and if I'm a hater for disliking the way my favourite codex turned out then I guess I'll just hate away.
@Red_Wings You ought to go into broadcasting eh? You have all the news. I'm so bad for talking gak in a house full of gak talkers aren't I? In a place meant for talking gak no less!
Why is codex Space Marines the tipping point? Who said it was? I'm just really disappointed that this codex, like all other new books before it, is a pile of junk. I can't say this makes me very excited for any other new books either. So what, wait around for a new Chaos book and have it turn out to be Codex: Spikey Marines? Can't wait to see all that old art get the colour wash!
Did I advocate sweeping changes with each codex? Hmm, no I don't think I did. But I did question the validity of paying $70 for the same rehashed stories didn't I?
And what on earth is wrong with writing new stories to go into the books? I'm not saying we have to be like comic book movies and constantly retell the origins story, but why do I want to read the exact same thing about each Chapter every new edition? What happens after Pedro gets his Chapter blown up? How do the UM finish off the Tyranids after the Battle for Macragge? Does Debbie do Dallas or is that just a saying?
To be fair, like others have said, stories and such belong in the novels. These are, after all, the RULE books. Not novela. I agree that the books NEED to be cheaper. While the books are often very well done, such as having beautiful bindings and cover art, and I love how smooth the pages feel and stuff, there isn't enough content to justify their prices. The books should have enough fluff to give you a sense of what the faction is, and their motives, and a little about their origins, but not their entire history as well as every detail of every battle/every war they have been a part of. You buy rule books for rules, not info that jacks the price of the game up.
If anything, GW should do the 'codecies' in two different ways. Make two books, cut their prices way down. Make one book that is JUST the rules for your faction, then make separate books with flushed out history/details/art of the codecies as a seperate book.
Mad at the declining quality of the codices? Yeah, but not in a life altering way.
I believe I present a valid point, and if I'm a hater for disliking the way my favourite codex turned out then I guess I'll just hate away.
@Red_Wings You ought to go into broadcasting eh? You have all the news. I'm so bad for talking gak in a house full of gak talkers aren't I? In a place meant for talking gak no less!
Why is codex Space Marines the tipping point? Who said it was? I'm just really disappointed that this codex, like all other new books before it, is a pile of junk. I can't say this makes me very excited for any other new books either. So what, wait around for a new Chaos book and have it turn out to be Codex: Spikey Marines? Can't wait to see all that old art get the colour wash!
Did I advocate sweeping changes with each codex? Hmm, no I don't think I did. But I did question the validity of paying $70 for the same rehashed stories didn't I?
And what on earth is wrong with writing new stories to go into the books? I'm not saying we have to be like comic book movies and constantly retell the origins story, but why do I want to read the exact same thing about each Chapter every new edition? What happens after Pedro gets his Chapter blown up? How do the UM finish off the Tyranids after the Battle for Macragge? Does Debbie do Dallas or is that just a saying?
I assume Red_Wings is supposed to be a reply to me (Red__Thirst)? No harm, no foul there.
Now, that said, there's a difference in expressing your opinion on something that displeases you and just throwing Gak as you have. This is a place for discussion, not wanton whining and negativity. This isn't a place to just talk gak, and I don't have any news, just my opinions which you're free to dismiss or disregard, as I intend to do to your opinions after I finish this post, so we're clear.
Also, allow me one noble moment to provide you an example.
"Ya know, this recent Marine codex was a real let down for me. The rules are poorly written, there's no new fluff or stories to read & enjoy, and the art is mostly the same too. I just can't justify spending $70.00 on this book, and I also don't even want to spend the money on a digital edition either. I'm just really underwhelmed & disappointed wit this release."
Instead, you wrote you opening post, which... let's face it... makes you seem a tad bit, shall we say, immature?
If you don't like it, express your opinion, but do it constructively and you'll get a lot more quality replies & discussion, which I can only assume is the entire reason you stirred this proverbial pot here to begin with.
Remember: It's not what you say, but how you say it. If you keep that phrase somewhere you can see it while posting, and use it while expressing yourself, I think you'll find your experience here, and on the rest of the internet, will improve dramatically.
Having said all that, and as I said in my first reply, if it's bothering you this much. Maybe walk away from it for a time & come back later if you're curious to see what the direction is at that time, and if you can get behind it or keep away if it's still upsetting to you.
Just my two pennies. I suspect this thread doesn't have much life left in it, so with that I'll beg my leave.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 02:08:24
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
As for why the Codex is bad, well just look at it, lol.
I'm not really going to get drawn into a debate about subjectivity. The artwork in the codex is done by amateurs, the combined unit description with model pictures annoys me, the painting guide is unnecessary, the model showcase is lacking. The different chapter sketches are terrible, the templates all look like online space marine painter rip-offs, not to mention just how god awful the Centurions look.
Also not a very big fan of the cover layout. White is just a really dumb colour for something that's going to be in grubby mitts all day.
Plus it's all blue guys everywhere. I think it's awesome that GW has all these models laying around that they can just, you know, not take pictures of.
Remember the converted Eagle Warrior Marine in the showcase last edition? Yeah, I want a picture of that guy somewhere in the next book. He was badass, cool pose, cool paint. Why can't that mini be the one we use for the picture in the Tac Marine list entry?
No, let's use that same blue guy army we have been taking pictures of for 10 years!
Edit: Immature, Red_Wings?
:looksattoysoldiers:
:looksback:
... Well I wouldn't say I'm the only one who can be accused of that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 02:14:46
... Well I wouldn't say I'm the only one who can be accused of that.
Again, immaturity is not the hobbies I enjoy, or actions I partake in, but the mindset I keep and use to conduct myself.
I think C.S. Lewis said it best.
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales -
(40k in this instance , & the enjoyment of it as a setting & a game)
- in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
― C.S. Lewis
Once again, not what you're saying, but how you're saying it.
Also, good effort at a troll attempt with purposely getting my name wrong a second time. 1.2 / 10
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
I like that quote. Never really was into his books, having read them back in High School as part of the curriculum. Still better than what they have the kids reading these days I suppose.
So, why did you deign to respond in the first place if the topic seemed so immature?
Thanks for derailing my thread with your apparent need to serious up the place. Not everyone has to conform to your social viewpoint.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 03:14:46
I think the codex/es DO need to include story and fluff. The game does not provide any otherwise and there is no way to know what you are getting into without it.
The books ALSO need to get cheaper.
I compare it all to DnD books.
A DnD book is 35 dollars, well made, lots of beautiful art, a high density of rules, and lots of fluff mixed in. They are also twice the thickness (if not more) then a codex. So wtfGW?
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
What exactly is wrong with it? What art in particular is bad? Which rules do you disagree with? What page number is the upsetting material on? Everyone knows GW is overpriced, there is no purpose to only mentioning that.
Your comments are generic and incisive but lack substance. Your post is clearly designed to cause unspecific drama.
These are additions which would be included at best as theme lists in competitors releases.
How they've convinced their sycophantic fans that this is not only acceptable, but worth shelling out a fresh $50+ dollar expenditure less than two years since the last one is beyond me.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Bought the book sight unseen and although it is a good book in general, as a Space Marine Codex it is woeful, they must have spent all of a weekend designing the new codex.
I could design a better codex, I went through and estimated that there are at least 45 pages that are wasted with shiola, why couldn't we have gotten a more Founding Chapters as I found enough space to have at least all 190 covered that little book has and more.
The there is the Gallery section, could have expanded that at least another 10 pages.
Yeah I spent $90 bucks on it.
I read on a forum somewhere that this codex was designed by the staff for the staff and nobody but the staff of GW and fethed the rest of the GW community and it is a fair assumption.
Another GW Failure.
"Ultramarines are Wusses".... Chapter Master Achaylus Bonecrusher
I dunno, the chuckle I got out of thunderfires staying the same price but going up one ballistic skill was worth a few bucks at least.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
"
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 