Objective Secured

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**Frozocrone**

How important has it been to you in your games?

Reason I ask is because I'm tempted to switch from CAD to Ork Horde detachment for an additional HQ and OS has only really mattered in one game. In any other game I was either slaughtered or running away with VP that it didn't matter that I wasn't contesting.

**Trystis**

It depends on your local meta, but generally its superior to most formation bonuses (except some of the most recent ones that are crazy good).

its better for really mobile armies though.

**Xenophon00**

I played Necron recently using a decurion detachment. At turn 6 most high value objective were contested by both Necron and my army but managed to win thanks to the objective secure rule. 2 more turn and he would have table me but the CAD save my ass

**koooaei**

Ork horde detachment has no real benefits other than +1 HQ. And a major nerf in face of loosing obsec. You're always better off with 2-d CAD. Except for when you're playing small pt games and don't want to get an extra infantry squad for some reason. Or disallowed to go double cad by a stupid tourney homerule.

**Jimsolo**

I play Dark Eldar, and rarely use it. Only with my allied Windriders do I get any mileage from it.

**koooaei**

Orks are a whole different story. We don't have speed and amazing damage output. And our staying power relies on numbers and tarpitting. We can't just flat out to another side of the table at will with half the army. You can kinda do it with speed freaks but ork vehicles are less durable than dark eldar ones due to lack of jinks.

We're not winning by dealing damage and being fast or unkillable - we're winning due to positioning. And obsec is a big deal in this case.

**Crimson Devil**

It has come up once in the 18 or so games I've played of 7th.

**Slayer-Fan123**

It's so minimal I wouldn't bother worrying about it. You can take a poll here and see how little it contributes.

**locarno24**

It depends on how often your opponent also has it - which, as stuff like the Eldar, Necron and Khorne Daemonkin detachments and Blood Angel formation-based armies becomes more common, becomes rarer.

I've had success with it with Tyranids - termagant units are kind of irrelevant - theoretically the starting termagant broods have it but they rarely survive the game. A Scuttling Swarm Tervigon in a troops slot, though, is really useful, because a T6, W6, Sv3+ monstrous creature with a bubblewrap of lil' bugs is **** hard to dislodge from an objective if it doesn't want to leave.

On a couple of occasions I've beaten daemon prince-heavy nugle daemon armies when (thanks to biomantic psykers) I couldn't actually hurt any of the models left on the table...

**Frozocrone**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It's so minimal I wouldn't bother worrying about it. You can take a poll here and see how little it contributes.

Didn't think of that, thank you! Poll now included

I guess it does depend on your army that you're playing and how good your troops are..

**UnadoptedPuppy**

There should be a 'sometimes' option, between 'rarely' and 'often'.

I would say every 3 games or so it comes into play, but rarely determines who wins.

**vipoid**

I can recall winning one game thanks to Objective Secured. It was sometime last year.

I will certainly say that it was rather dispiriting to play DE against the new SMs.
"I'm using a CAD, so my troops have Objective Secured."
"I'm using the new SM formation, so y entire army has Objective Secured."
O_o

**Clan Lykos**

Am I playing the same game as everybody else? It comes up at least once a match for me.

**changemod**

I've had it even come up about once, and I was winning by a large margin at that stage anyhow.

I recognise it would matter more if bike troops or transport spam were more common around here though.

**jeffersonian000**

The only time ObSec seems to be necessary is for weak units that can't push enemies off objectives, and those enemies aren't also ObSec. So, rarely.

SJ

**Comrade**

I play Foot IG and orks, so Obj Sec comes in handy sometimes since I can grind it out over an objective while other armies units rely on the whole "Shock and Awe" against other small units.

on another point:

What does the ork horde detachment really do that 2 CADs wont?

**Loborocket**

Comrade wrote:

What does the ork horde detachment really do that 2 CADs wont?

Ork horde detachment gets Hammer of Wrath when rolling 10" or more charge distance.

**niv-mizzet**

It comes up super rarely unless I'm playing something like battle company. Generally if I only have a few obsec units, they don't live to the end to make use of it, or they'll be uncontested anyway because I'm winning by enough of a margin.

**Icculus**

I always run with the Ork Horde detachment. 3 HQs is just so awesome, and it doesnt exactly feel like you are taking a 3rd HQ because a Painboy used to just be a nob upgrade.

**Vector Strike**

I've read an interesting theory in another thread about ObSec: the less it is in the field, the more important it becomes. So, as the community change their list-building from CAD to decurion-style, Obsec stuff becomes more valuable. I agree with this point of view.

ObSec Crisis is one of the main selling points of Farsight Enclaves supplement, as buying Devilfishes for Fire Warriors. So, I'd say it matters for Tau. It usually comes up in my games, especially after turn 2

**Crimson Devil**

Clan Lykos wrote:
Am I playing the same game as everybody else? It comes up at least once a match for me.

Most of my games have been decided by or before turn 4 with one army destroyed, making objectives irrelevant.

**jakejackjake**

locarno24 wrote:
It depends on how often your opponent also has it - which, as stuff like the Eldar, Necron and Khorne Daemonkin detachments and Blood Angel formation-based armies becomes more common, becomes rarer.

I've had success with it with Tyranids - termagant units are kind of irrelevant - theoretically the starting termagant broods have it but they rarely survive the game. A Scuttling Swarm Tervigon in a troops slot, though, is really useful, because a T6, W6, Sv3+ monstrous creature with a bubblewrap of lil' bugs is **** hard to dislodge from an objective if it doesn't want to leave.

On a couple of occasions I've beaten daemon prince-heavy nugle daemon armies when (thanks to biomantic psykers) I couldn't actually hurt any of the models left on the table...

If Eldar doesn't have obsec then their list is bad. The windrider formation where it only works on shuriken is a nerf. I'd never take that. There should be a farseer and three units of windriders in ever list

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Clan Lykos wrote:
Am I playing the same game as everybody else? It comes up at least once a match for me.

If you play necrons or against them a lot it will. Or if you only play maelstrom it will come up as a necron player a lot

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vipoid wrote:
I can recall winning one game thanks to Objective Secured. It was sometime last year.

I will certainly say that it was rather dispiriting to play DE against the new SMs.
"I'm using a CAD, so my troops have Objective Secured."
"I'm using the new SM formation, so y entire army has Objective Secured."
O_o

Yeah if the new formation loses in a maelstrom game against a normal armies CAD they're doing it wrong. The board is flooded and it's all objective secured. The Obsec becomes a total game changer for them

**koooaei**

While obsec is not the most important thing in every army, orks benefit a lot from it. Besides, that ork horde detachment has more drawbacks than benefits. It provides HoW if you roll 10 or higher on the charge. That's generally a couple s3 HoW hits if you roll 10+. NOT worth loosing obsec. All you need to get that 3-d(and 4-th) HQ is to take 1 extra troop which can be just 35 pts for a rather useful bauble wrap and area denial tool. Or if you invest more, a fully operational squad of boyz. Why wouldn't you want moar boyz?

**Lance845**

I haven't played much with objectives yet. (my household is still building our terrain/board so our play space isn't exactly 4x6 yet) so we mostly just play to table. That being said, the few times we HAVE used objectives I have loved it and it always made a difference.

**ansacs**

It is extremely dependent on the type of unit it is on. ObjSec functions best on either mobile or durable units. Mobile units can steel objectives from other units and durable units can survive and avoid being contested on objectives.

The majority of people that will answer rarely usually fall into one of several archetype groups;
1) They play altar of war only. When you only score at the end of the game after pounding on an enemy for 5-7 turns then objective secured will become vastly less important. When you score objectives every turn the ability to score Obj becomes 5-7 times more important.

2) There is an extreme imbalance between the effectiveness of the player and list synergy. If none of your games are close then ObjSec will never matter as most games will find one side tabled or completely out of position. This is actually surprisingly common; case in point I am an above average player who has a W:L record well over 100 as I have lost 2 times in almost 20 years of playing (it used to be nearing a thousand but my 20 y/o bro rolled 12 6's in a row to hold an objective with an ObjSec unit...lol). However I don't play at GTs so my W:L ratio is meaningless and most of my games are me playing wonky joke lists or at a pts deficit against vastly less experienced and knowledgeable players. If I don't purposely take a weak list and play on an equal footing the games are not even close usually with a turn 3-4 tabling or the opponent being 2-3 turns of movement out from the objectives. ObjSec doesn't matter at all then.

3) Bias Reinforcement. This is actually a huge number of the X doesn't matter any in game or even population. These people benefit from X but don't realize it as they don't remember as it doesn't make an impact. Real world examples of these are EPA doesn't matter people who also go fishing on the Missouri river every weekend

In the game you probably see a lot of this with the "my dice are always cold" people as they only remember when the dice are bad and forget the dice performing well as that is "as expected". Many people that play CAD armies against CAD armies are constantly benefiting from ObjSec, however it will never register as they didn't score the Obj because of it they just didn't loose the Obj to the ObjSec opponent.

I totally agree with all the Ork players in this thread that are practically shouting out how ObjSec is a huge benefit to orks. Orks don't have the damage to table most enemies but they do have durable(ish) ObjSec units (and mobile if you use warbiker troops). There are uses for using the other detachments to add more of the great ork HQs to lists working in the ITC limitations of no 2+ CADs. The green tide is also pretty good for the synergistic abilities.

**vipoid**

ansacs wrote:
It is extremely dependent on the type of unit it is on. ObjSec functions best on either mobile or durable units. Mobile units can steel objectives from other units and durable units can survive and avoid being contested on objectives.

That's the thing though - it's all very well to talk about using fast units to steal objectives, but you're usually condemning those units to death in the process.

**DarknessEternal**

It's important to some types of armies are being used, for example Drop Pod Marines, but fairly trivial otherwise.

**DoomShakaLaka**

Obsec can be very handy if you follow the NOVA open format which has you scoring from turns 2-6.

Its won me about half my wins ( the other half I tabled my opponent) as most of my opponents don't run CADs and I do.

I like to try to use landspeedr storms and scouts to run up, aggravate the enemy and score objectives at the same time.

**ansacs**

vipoid wrote:That's the thing though - it's all very well to talk about using fast units to steal objectives, but you're usually condemning those units to death in the process.

Is trading a 51 pts jetbike unit for +1 victory point to win a game a bad thing? That is the minimum take of such a move as it is a maelstorm mission and assumes the opponent gets to react. In an altar of war mission this could mean snatching a 3 pts Obj from the opponent. That is a 6 pts swing, ie enough to usually win. Even with scatbikes in an ITC mission this is still only a 81 pts loss to gain 1/10 pf the total secondary pts. You could theoretically win the game with these trades totaling only 810 out of 1850 pts. That is cheap to win the game.

Also it is not always true that you will loose a unit. This is why white scars are good because they are durable, fast, ObjSec, and good in melee. You can often charge an opponent's unit on an Obj, take the Obj, kill some of the opponent, and hit and run out of the combat to shoot and gain extra movement. Another example of durable and fast ObjSec units is spawn in Heretics and Renegades Tz lists.

You can also play intelligently. ie when you go in to snatch the objective you can use powers, special rules, and target priority to your advantage. For example you can lower the units nearby BS down using nids power or skitarii infiltrators. You could also snipe out the special or heavy weapon, use cover to lower charge distances and shield the unit from firepower. Advance a much more dangerous threat in the same area and see if the opponent wants to die next turn or stop you from scoring. etc. ObjSec mobile units gives you tools to use, not having them means you lack those tools and so cannot use a whole subset of strategies and tactics.

**vipoid**

ansacs wrote:

Is trading a 51 pts jetbike unit for +1 victory point to win a game a bad thing?

But that assumes its sacrifice will win you the mission - something you can't possibly know in advance.

It could be that sacrificing units this way loses you the mission.

ansacs wrote:

Also it is not always true that you will loose a unit.

Speaking as a DE player, I've never come across a situation where sending in one of my ObSec units to contest an objective won't doom it.