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Hello my fellow Fallen,

I'm new to 40k and new to Chaos. Just picked up my codex and bought of couple units of Chosen to start painting (I know they aren't "good," but they look cool and the fluff interests me more than competitive play). But as I'm looking to choose an HQ (Chaos Lord probably), my units (cultists), and elites (Chosen + chosen god's units), I'm stuck deciding on a route to specialize in. I do want a god themed army, Chaos undivided does not interest me for the fluff or even the rules.

Nurgle and Slaanesh are my favorites for the fluff, but as far as rules go I'm stuck between Nurgle and Khorne. It's not a matter of shooty vs charge for me, I'd like a balance and it seems to me that if not Nurgle, Havocs, and if not Khorne, Talons (?). Of course at higher points I could just double up, but for now I want to stay between 500-750 (maybe 1000 if I can afford it). For the time being I'll be primarily playing against my little brother. We're getting Dark Vengeance seeing as I'd like to play Chaos and he'd like to play Dark Angels. I know the Dark Angels are supposed to have a point advantage, so I'd like to just balance out the scales for starters.

I'm sure it would make sense to go Nurgle, especially with the aim of winning games, though Khorne doesn't seem like a bad choice either. Any input on the matter would be helpful.

Also, any input on a god which would create a more interesting dynamic with Dark Angels (specifically what is in the Dark Vengeance set) would be greatly appreciated.

If it's not too much to ask, general hobby advice would also be nice. I'm excited to be a part of the community.

Nurgle is by far the best rules wise, with Tzeentch right behind him and Khorne and Slaanesh fighting it out for last.

I'm just dipping my toes into chaos myself, and I seem to have gone Slaaneshi despite intending to go Tzeentch. (Hmm...)

Between Nurgle and Khorne, my understanding is that Nurgle is more competitive (especially the bikers), but Khorne can be pretty alright too if you use daemonkin.

Also, despite owning a squad of Blood Talons myself, my understanding is that they're not very good, but that could just be internet cynicism. I intend to try mine out as Slaaneshi talons and see if swinging before most enemies makes them any better if used as a non-deepstriking unit.

Edit @Jimsolo: My understanding was that Tzeentch was only "good" because of daemon factory lists. Is Tzeentch still especially competitive if you aren't churning out daemons all game?

Currently I think you're better off opting for Nurgle. Khorne has a desire for assault, and the new DA rules make them really good at shooting overwatch at charging units. DA will already have a few bonuses vs Chaos marines, no need to make it easier. Go Nurgle!

 bullyboy wrote:
Currently I think you're better off opting for Nurgle. Khorne has a desire for assault, and the new DA rules make them really good at shooting overwatch at charging units. DA will already have a few bonuses vs Chaos marines, no need to make it easier. Go Nurgle!

speaking of dark angels..... noise marines would be very handy when facing a ravenwing force

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nurgle is by far the best rules wise, with Tzeentch right behind him and Khorne and Slaanesh fighting it out for last.

Lolwot?

Tzeentch is easily the worst god in the CSM dex.TSons are terrible, tzeentch has the worst psychic lore (depite it being his major shtick), there is virtually no benefit from the mark of Tzeentch on normal troops, the MoT is, much like everything else in the codex, too bloody expensive for the paltry benefits it provides and to top it all off, the Tzeentchian banner is total trash.

Nurgle>>>>>>Slaneesh=Khorne>>Tzeentch.

The mark of Nurgle +1 toughness is easily the best, giving you T6 bikers and/or spawn, T5 oblits and the always solid fist/claw lord along with plague marines as troops who can take 2 specials at 5 men and camp objectives like no-bodies business. Also means you've got typhus and plague zombies available.

Slaneesh, although not having a good HQ choice, does unlock the option to take noise marines as troops. Ignores cover on a small blast battle cannon and your bolters? Why, yes, that is a worthwhile addition to your army. And they are fearless. And they can get FNP from their banner. Speaking of FNP, how about a biker lord in a unit of bikers with FNP and Initiative 5. Why not. Go check out the radness that is the best choice of psychic disciples (though unmarked is better since all the chaos powers are pretty gakky).

Khorne, apart from the much better daemonkin book, allows juggerlords and Kharn, 2 of the killiest things this side of a warlord titan. What's that? You've got 2 HQ slots so you can easily run them both? Nice. Kharne in a land raider with some berserkers and juggerlord with some bikes or spawn make for interesting choice as to what you need to throw your fire at. Support with a pair of maulerfiends and a heldrake and you're laughing. Better off running Khorne Daemonkin for everything but Kharn or a juggerlord, which you take as as an allied detachment.

Tzeentch? Congrats, you're forced to take a sorceror and lose one of his spell slots 2/3rds of the time (since doombolt is the only power worth casting from tzeentchs gakky table) to unlock your 23 point marines and their 58 point sargent. Yes, they get AP3 bolters, but cover makes that redundant. Yes, they have a 4++, but small arms fire kills them the same as 13 point marines, and a ruin provides a 4+ cover. You also can't run, overwatch or sweeping advance and you have no grenades on anyone but the sargent. Have fun with a 10 man squad with no upgrades costing 265 before you buy them a transport. Taking the mark of Tzeentch on your basic troops, cool, now you've got a 6++, but the cover you are undoubtedly standing in means you'll never get to use it. Yes, you can get a 3++ on your HQ, but you've given up more than it's worth compared to the other marks and the points cost. Ahriman has his moments, but costs the same as a land raider and is T4 without eternal warrior or a spell familiar and has a 50/50 shot at being doubled out by the 1st missile launcher or melta gun pointed at him.

The only place that Tzeentch comes out ahead on a daemon prince is in a meta overflowing with ignores cover skyfire where a 3+/5++ re-rolling 1's is better than a 2+jink save from Nurgle for your mobile daemon summoning platform.

The few shining lights in the Chaos dex are T5 Oblits, Kharn, Juggerlord, Typhus & Zombies, ML3 unmarked casters with spell familiar and the Heldrake. None of those things are Tzeentch (nor slaneesh, but at least noise marines aren't terrible and ignores cover, Str 8 AP3 can forgive a lot!). The entire rest of the chaos book needs to be consigned to the warp, because virtually everything else is total trash. Princes and Belakor can be better run out of the daemon book.

Yeah Nurgle>>>Slanessh>/=Khorne>>Tzeentch
's fluff but are choosing between Nurgle or Khorne for rules.
Slannesh comes slightly ahead with noise marines vs berserkers as. Steed of slanessh is also no juggernaut but it allows you to outflank a unit and its reliable with acute senses.

If you want to play Tzeentch, you're much better off looking into the Chaos Demon codex which has a number of solid Tzeentch units (Fateweaver, Lords of Change, Tzeentch Heralds, Pink Horrors and Screamers).

Also, there's no need to stick to one god. Sure there is aesthetic value in having a mono-God army, but there's also plenty of both fluff and crunch value to be had in going Chaos Undivided and picking and choosing the best of each God.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Nurgle is by far the best rules wise, with Tzeentch right behind him and Khorne and Slaanesh fighting it out for last.

I feel like you must have some seriously sick Tzeentch-players in your gaming group, Jim.

MudraMan wrote:
Hello my fellow Fallen,

I'm new to 40k and new to Chaos. Just picked up my codex and bought of couple units of Chosen to start painting (I know they aren't "good," but they look cool and the fluff interests me more than competitive play).

I use my Chosen models from the DV boxset as Champions in other CSM units. I would never field them as Chosen with their weapon arrangements...

As for which god to mark them with, Chosen are expensive enough as-is to warrant throwing a mark on them. However, if you want them to escort a marked HQ, then you'll need a matching Mark.

I'd go with Nurgle for the staying power. However, if I were to use a Sorcerer, it would always be Tzeench.

Best of luck!

I'm just fine with Tzeentch, in friendly games. But the the question was nurgle or khorne.

I would have to say nurgle because you said you want them to be balanced in terms of shooting and melee. Khorne is pretty much all melee. It's too hard to get into melee if you don't take enough units that are charging forward. You can take dread claws and landraiders/spartans to somewhat alleviate the problem but your still going to need multiples.

Nurgle isn't exactly huge on melee but nurgle daemonprinces are pretty nasty in melee with a black mace. A lord is always killy and even a sorcerer can be ridiculously tough with the right powers and gear. Though I wouldn't bet on that.
Otherwise you only have our walkers, which can't be dedicated in the rules, but you could always model them as nurgle dedicated. Forge World has a few dreads that can though and they'll do just fine in melee.

Although I don't recommend getting into Forge World just yet. It's just something to keep in mind.

Also with Dark Angles the way they are now, you're already at a disadvantage. And that will be made even worse with khorne (although dirge casters will help a lot).
Fluffwise I can't think of any god that has particular beef with the dark angels. Black Legion would work as they hate Space Marines the most in general. Or the Cypher Dataslate, which is cool and all, but again, they are unmarked and probably not a beginners choice either.

Slaaneshi Cultists with CCW are dynamite against I3 and I4 units, that's about my experience.

 MudraMan wrote:

I do want a god themed army, Chaos undivided does not interest me for the fluff or even the rules.

 GoonBandito wrote:

Also, there's no need to stick to one god. Sure there is aesthetic value in having a mono-God army, but there's also plenty of both fluff and crunch value to be had in going Chaos Undivided and picking and choosing the best of each God.

Emphasis mine.

At the end of the day, if you're tossing up between Nugle/Slaneesh for fluff and Nurgle/Khorne for rules, well, only 1 god is in both lists, should be fairly obvisous what the answer is.

I'd also like to point out that nothing is stopping you from borrowing/proxying models before you spend money and slap on paint. You can always try out several playstyles to see which one fits you first.

Khorne is always good fun, if your not going super competitive.

See for me I wouldn't even go for making it competitive. I'd pick whatever speaks to me the most fluff wise and offers the best chances for interesting conversions. As it doesn't matter if you win its how you play. Personal preference for myself is khorne for the tradgedy of the world eaters dooming themselves but then there's nurgle with death guard being damned because of typhon. So I'd do an allied force of the two

my advise would be ton run mixed marks. obviously khorne is no use for a squad of havoks, but nurgle might be kinda nifty.

Personaly I go for chaos undivided, no marks or all marks used.

I find undiveded armies much more interesting, not focused on serving one god.

I'm just going to go with Nurgle/Khorne for the time being. Thanks everyone for your input!

List:
Chaos Lord w/ Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Mark of Nurgle
10x Plague Marines w/ Meltagun, Gift of Mutation
10x Cultists w/ Autoguns, Shotgun, Heavy Stubber
10x Cultists w/ Heavy Flamer
Helbrute w/ Multimelta, Twin-Linked Lascannon
6x Khorne Berzerkers w/ 3x Chain Axe, Icon of Wrath, 2x Chain Sword, Power Maul

All for 773 points vs the 770 points of Dark Angels out of Dark Vengeance.

I really appreciate the help everyone. This noob is much less overwhelmed by possibility.

Just in case your taking the two cultists to fill your troops requirements. The nurgle lord actually makes your plague marines troops. So you don't actually need two cultist squads,one and the plague marines would be enough. In which case you'd probably want to take those points and spend them on a transport for berzerkers.