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Not to be confused with the Confederate flag discussion..

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/06/24/farrakhan-i-dont-get-debate-over-confederate-flag-we-need-to-put-the-american-flag-down/

Farrakhan: I Don’t Get Debate Over Confederate Flag, ‘We Need to Put the American Flag Down’

Louis Farrakhan stated “We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag” in remarks before the Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, DC on Wednesday first reported by DC’s WMAL.

Farrakhan said, “White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city, they don’t give a damn about them nine.”

He added that when the police took suspected shooter Dylann Roof to Burger King they were saying “You did a good job. Kill all them [bleep.]”

Later, he declared, “I don’t know what the hell the fight is about over the Confederate flag. We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag,” comments that were meant with cheers and applause. He added, “Who are we fighting today? It’s the people that carry the American flag.”

So should we take down the US flag? This symbol of oppression? Discuss.

No, we shouldn't.

Farrakhan said, “White folks march with you because they don’t want you upsetting the city, they don’t give a damn about them nine.”


There is a term for people like this. What is it? Ah yes, racist donkey-cave.

feth you, Farrakhan.

Without opening a big can of:


Everything that kronk said.

Very great numbers of people find the CSA flag offensive and objectionable. That is not true of the US flag, so Farrakhan's concept is doomed to failure.

F is also off the charts racist so his statement is less than nothing.

The fact someone thought sharing his idiocy was worthwhile blows by mind.

 Ahtman wrote:
The fact someone thought sharing his idiocy was worthwhile blows by mind.

Agreed..Not sure if this thread was an attempt at humour.

But in case it was serious, I'll bite.

While it certainly can be argued that the American Flag is symbol of oppression, Same could be argued about just about any current 1st world National Flag. Due to Imperialism and Colonialism of the 17th,18th, and 19th centuries.

However what is the defining difference, is this. Most 1st world countries are at least trying to improve on past mistakes, and acknowledge that wrongs were done, and make attempts at improving things for all their citizens.

The confederate battle flag represents an era of not trying to help anyone but one select group...I.E. Southern Whites.

So while I can certainly agree that the US Flag hasn't always stood for the greatest principles, and we have been hypocrites at times, such as Manifest destiny, and the American Indian, Not outright freeign the slaves after the revolution, treatment of Asian immigrants, heck treatment of most immigrants...

I think we get it right more than wrong?

GG

The difference between Confederate and the USA flag is that the confederate flag was NEVER a national flag.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The difference between Confederate and the USA flag is that the confederate flag was NEVER a national flag.

Also the Confederation flag people think of today isn't anything they used as a claim-to-nation flag. It's an army battle flag

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Very great numbers of people find the CSA flag offensive and objectionable. That is not true of the US flag, so Farrakhan's concept is doomed to failure.

I'd venture to say north of a billion people find the US flag objectionable(Middle east and Asia). Way more people than have ever seen a confederate battle flag.

Don't bypass the language filter like this.
Reds8n

Breitbart → Nero/Milo Yiannopoulos → full of gak.
Discuss.

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Very great numbers of people find the CSA flag offensive and objectionable. That is not true of the US flag, so Farrakhan's concept is doomed to failure.

I'd venture to say north of a billion people find the US flag objectionable(Middle east and Asia). Way more people than have ever seen a confederate battle flag.

Don't bypass the language filter like this.
Reds8n

Since they do not have the vote in the USA, their views are unlikely to affect the issue. Unlike the CSA flag.

The US flag represents the US and it's people from beginning to now, today.

Other countries opinion of it depends on how we treat them. We can change it's image for the better by becoming better people. Or we can change it's image for the worse by continuing to start wars and breaking the conventions we've agreed to. Today most countries do have a poor opinion of us.

We could change the flag, but the opinion of it would be the same.

America was founded on lofty ideals, the confederacy rejected those ideals and founded itself on white supremacy.

Is the guy arguing we should take down the American flag on American soil because it could offend others? Feth that, and feth him. Guy is an idiot. If you argue that a nation (any nation) can't fly its own colors on its own soil, you belong in a straight jacket.

Or, is he arguing they should take it down in other countries? In which case, sure, why not. If other countries are offended by it, AND it causes legitimate issues, then sure, it should come down. Except at an American Embassy. Just like all embassies should fly the flag of the country it represents. That's just common sense. I would expect all Iranian embassies to fly the Iranian national flag, all Japanese embassies to fly the Japanese flag, etc. You can't cherry pick which embassies are okay to fly flags, but others can't.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Since they do not have the vote in the USA, their views are unlikely to affect the issue. Unlike the CSA flag.

So their opinions don't matter because they don't have a vote? By the same logic, unless you can vote in one of these former confederate states, your views should not affect the issue.

As for all those that hate the American flag, they need to stop putting their countries so close to our military bases.

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Since they do not have the vote in the USA, their views are unlikely to affect the issue. Unlike the CSA flag.

So their opinions don't matter because they don't have a vote? By the same logic, unless you can vote in one of these former confederate states, your views should not affect the issue.

...

I will thank you not to dishonestly put words into my mouth.

The USA destroyed the CSA and reincorporated it into the body politic, so any US voter would the right to vote on use of the CSA flag in the US if such were held on the issue.

However, whatever your opinion on the US flag, if you are not a US citizen you will not have a vote on its use in the US.

sirlynchmob wrote:
The US flag represents the US and it's people from beginning to now, today.

Other countries opinion of it depends on how we treat them. We can change it's image for the better by becoming better people. Or we can change it's image for the worse by continuing to start wars and breaking the conventions we've agreed to. Today most countries do have a poor opinion of us.

We could change the flag, but the opinion of it would be the same.

America was founded on lofty ideals, the confederacy rejected those ideals and founded itself on white supremacy.

I very much agree with that. Even if the US flag is a symbol of oppression for many people, it is still the US flag, and as long as the US exists you can't do away with it. A flag is just a symbol, if you replace it with another symbol with the same meaning, it doesn't change anything.
Also, yes. The US could do a lot to improve its (very poor) reputation in most of the rest of the world, but changing your flag won't accomplish anything apart from confusing people (and probably make most Americans really angry)

This is not a clever a thread.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
However, whatever your opinion on the US flag, if you are not a US citizen you will not have a vote on its use in the US.

Doesn't look like we are having much voting on the matter.

I love how many "We hate America" threads I see in here on a regular basis. Its ironic isn't it that according to you over 1 billion people hate the American Flag and the country it symbolizes. And yet, every time a country invades its neighbor, or a huge environmental catastrophe occurs, those same countries who slandered the US are crying for her help.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I love how many "We hate America" threads I see in here on a regular basis. Its ironic isn't it that according to you over 1 billion people hate the American Flag and the country it symbolizes. And yet, every time a country invades its neighbor, or a huge environmental catastrophe occurs, those same countries who slandered the US are crying for her help.

But who comes to aid a country that the US invaded?
Who's going to aid Iran when the US finally decides to invade them?

so how is that aid for the Ukraine going?

Yep, america is leading the fight against climate change the next coming environmental catastrophe, oh wait ...
Did hurricane Katrina ever get cleaned up?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

dereksatkinson wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Since they do not have the vote in the USA, their views are unlikely to affect the issue. Unlike the CSA flag.

So their opinions don't matter because they don't have a vote? By the same logic, unless you can vote in one of these former confederate states, your views should not affect the issue.

As for all those that hate the American flag, they need to stop putting their countries so close to our military bases.

Maybe they start to hate us because of how we act in their country, and they get to meet a lot of us because of the base?

It takes a truly unique kind of crazy to have no-one on dakka willing to defend you. So congratulations Mr Farrakhan, you are in rare company.

Saw Breitbart link, instantly suspicious.

dereksatkinson wrote:
As for all those that hate the American flag, they need to stop putting their countries so close to our military bases.

Exactly! I mean, what the hell is up with that anyway?

Again, one must look at the Foundational Causes behind the founding of both the USA, and the CSA.

As well as looking at the Ideologies held by both groups.

The USA was founded upon the Principles and Ideologies of the French Enlightenment (Secular, Championing of Reason over Faith, and the Equality of all mankind).

The CSA was founded upon a Rejection of the Enlightenment, that some "people" are created by God as being inherently better than others, and that some "people" were created as "Lesser beings" by God, some of who were both created and destined for slavery, in perpetuity.

That both did despicable things is not in question (although a deeper examination of this shows much of the despicability to originate in the South due to the overall influence of this rejection of the Enlightenment being largely historical (and present from the days of the Founding of the USA).

But what is ignored by some is that the USA's Founding Characteristics and Ideology allowed it to understand it has committed some form of wrong, and try to make amends for it, while the CSA's Founding Characteristics have been largely to try to pretend it never did anything wrong, and to avoid any and all responsibility for those wrongs.

Farrakhan is a bit of an extremist, who is simply looking for a way to inflame things even further.

He has every right to be angry about the treatment of Blacks in the USA, but rather than work to correct that treatment, his attitudes fall almost directly in line with the attitudes of White Supremacists (to wall of Blacks in their own communities where Whites are not allowed).

He represents the exact same rejection of The Enlightenment that is found in the Southern States.

MB

Not knowing the original source (whilst knowing enough about American media to know you don't click a breitbart link unless you want your eyeballs assaulted by toxic sludge) it's difficult to work out if this is the serious opinion of a racist or an attempt at irony by .... a racist.

Either way it isn't unknown for countries to change their flags for various reasons. The flag of the UK changed many times as the union grew stronger. Germany's flag changed with the fall of the Berlin wall. Currently New Zealand is debating whether to adopt a new flag which better represents the country instead of keeping on looking like a small offshoot of the British empire and Australia's weedy little neighbour.

South Africa's flag would be the one that matches the statement in the OP the closest. The SA one was replaced as it was considered to be representative of the apartheid era, much as the confederate flag is.

As for the national flag being replaced because of everything else the country has done ... that's barely worth the time arguing about. Half the countries in Europe would have to change their flags, Japan would have to ditch the Hinomaru and let's not get started on the middle east and Africa.