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I was working on this idea to deal with all the alpha/beta strike evil thats floating around. I really like seer councils, its my thing even as it fades from god tier as the meta evolves, that said please critique this build as I'm thinking its a pretty stout TAC list for a very competitive meta. It comes in at 1830 and im uncertain how to juggle points around: I would especially like some input on that.

Sky runner seer council formation:
2 jetseers and 5 warlocks

Inquisitorial detachment:
Coteaz
5 servitors with plasma cannons

CAD
Jetseer
Autarch with banshee mask, jet bike and the shard of anaris
3x5 Scatbikes
2x5 warp spiders
Wraith knight with d cannons

Im weak vs flyers, but aside from coteaz and crew I feel like my mobility can really minimize the power of flyers while I play the game and win the mission

Unfortunately this list will get torn apart by skyhammer.

You can at least buy spears for all your farseers to use up 20 pts.. this is a bad list..

Actually mobility is not what you need since you cannot move in his go anyway... the best list probably contains wraithguard with dscythes, and wraithblades with axes (of all things!) and an avatar and a wraithknight.. this may seem an odd choice but they are tough as nails and sort of "castle up" a bit... and all of them ignore the psychology stuff... the dscythes absorb a charge so much that if you charged a full squad its an auto suicide.. no one would attempt it.. the wraithblades can taken a charge fine and the the avatar buffs even gun toting wraithguard so much they become lethal in the charge

Another option is storm guardians.. they get fearless and have 4 attacks str 4 in assault if charging near an avatar. A steal for 9 pts each

Wraith units are poor against Sky hammer as they get nailed by 40 twinlinked Grav shots. Interceptor, horde and bubble wrap are the best ways to absorb the Sky hammer alpha strike. Eldar don't have access to any of that. So MSU spam and spreading is your best bet backed up by Flyers so you've kept a lot of points off the board. Or wrap your army with a big invisible council though that relies on first turn and Baharroth for H&R.

You can "only" take 3 heavy weapons on the servitors with coteaz. You could take 3 acolytes with plasma guns though, and that'd actually be cheaper since they're 14 points each with a plasma gun instead of 20 for the plasma cannon servitors.

While coteaz is great, unless you're pretty spot on with your placement, the skyhammer is still going to be able to charge your toys and ensure you have a bad time in the 1st turn.

The other question is, what's the skyhammer bringing with the other ~800 points he has access to, 'cause that's what you've got to deal with as well.

Oops on the 3 heavy per type, thx for the correction.

I've faced Skyhammer once, thus far, so as a Space Elf player ....

Ahem.

2 full units worth of guardian bubble wrap. Take that, grav-gun devastators!

* ... ducks and runs before anticipated vitriol begins ... *

If I was gonna run a Jetseer, I'd go big or go home; which means at least 7 warlocks for ML3 and max singing spears.

As for supplementary units to combat Gladius/Skyhammer, just go as MSU as possible. If you get bottom turn, you're going to be playing from way behind anyway, so just force them to nuke a few small units and move on.

 The Shrike wrote:
If I was gonna run a Jetseer, I'd go big or go home; which means at least 7 warlocks for ML3 and max singing spears.

As for supplementary units to combat Gladius/Skyhammer, just go as MSU as possible. If you get bottom turn, you're going to be playing from way behind anyway, so just force them to nuke a few small units and move on.

The thing is, to not serve up something juicy and points costly ... like a WraithKnight. One grav-gun dev can remove it, even with 5++ and FNP.

I managed a miracle 9 FNPs (outta 13 wounds) after 15 wounds, and only 2 successful Invulns. He had to 'waste' the 2nd dev unit on the Wrathknight.

Skyhammer (more accurately, 2 Drop Pods of Grav-Ampped, relentless Dev squads) is a nasty, hard answer to WraithKnights and the rest of the Aspects.

Pray for Cover Saves.

If you go with coteaz then I would pick the following:

HQ Coteaz
HQ Inquisitor + servitor skulls

Elite: Henchmen
- 3 multi melta servitors
- 8 acolytes with 3 plasmaguns
- 1 psyker

defence line with ammo dump.

coteaz and that single psyker could try to go for 'the gate' but the can always stay back behind the defence line + reroll plasma overheat (ammo dump) to make sure that anything that lands within 12 get shot in the face.

You can upgrade this unit a bit further but it gets expensive really quick. Thats why I would leave the plasmacannon servitors out. Also possible to give that inquisitor 2x plasma pistols but thats another 20 points.

This list would be hard to sky hammer:

STORM GUARDIAN BATTLEHOST

3 x 8 Storm Guardians with 2 Flamers and 2 power swords in Wave Serpent with Holofields and Underslung Shuriken Canon

636

1x farseer on foot in a stormie squad
1x warlock on foot in a stormie squad

135

1 x Vyper with extra Shuriken Canon

50

1x D-Canon Vaul

55

SUB TOTAL 876

FAST ATTACK
3 x 3 Hornets with 2 Pulse Lasers

585

SUB TOTAL 1461

plus get rangers and illric with the rest or karadras plus striking scoprions

Two farseers 32 scar bikes a wraithknight and Crimson hunter formation. He can only take out two units Mac on the first turn them both dev squads die

Facing marines take the starcannons. With 6 ap2 shots a piece after you have fun targeting vehicle and fliers take out some elites. With centurions or something you may want to go right for them

jakejackjake wrote:
Two farseers 32 scar bikes a wraithknight and Crimson hunter formation. He can only take out two units Mac on the first turn them both dev squads die

Facing marines take the starcannons. With 6 ap2 shots a piece after you have fun targeting vehicle and fliers take out some elites. With centurions or something you may want to go right for them

Why only 2 units? Twin linked Devas should kill 4 including the Knight comfortably, plus whatever the ASMs assault (at least 2 either units) plus whatever else they have arriving by drop pod. Then you have the DAs who can drop in with 70+ Grav shots at 6-8 targets plus melta and flamer all on turn 1. Your list seems like a good way to die.

Wait what? So two dev squads are either going to kill just the wraith knight or maybe the wraithknight and a windrider unit. The assault squads might "almost" kill two windrider units. They should be able to place their models so that with terrain you aren't guaranteed assaults at all and so it's very likely two squads total. It's 4 squads so it's 4 units max, possibly only 2

Combat squads is a thing. So that's 10 twin linked Grav shots at 2 units and another 13 twinlinked Grav shots at each of two other targets. That's 4 dead units (13 Grav shots kills the Wraithknight). Plus the assaults (again combat squads could be a thing and multi assaults) plus whatever else they have arriving by pod which is about 1000 points of stuff.

Yes but ten shots will on average no kill ten models with four up saves and again that's assuming they didn't depoy in a way where you can't get that close to available targets besides a couple

Obviously a strong formation. Marines are crazy right now. This is probably their best formation

24" range, should kill a unit of 4-5 bikes, should kill a Wraithknight with the 13 shot. I'm not saying they always kill everything they hit. I'm just saying an army of Scat bikes and a Wraithknight plays into their hands. Remember there will be 6 storm bolters to help finish stuff off from the drop pods probably another 12 melta shots and the assaults that you some how avoid with 32 scat bikes plus other shots from whatever pods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's not even get into what the Dark Angel version of the list does to you with 70+ Grav shots... Plus meltas and flamers.

8 hits on the wk, five wounds that get a five up so 1-2 saves followed by another on average means the wraithknight shouldnt die often to the ten shots. It should die pretty consistently towards the 13

I play a scatt bike army and I've played against the skyhammer formation and I haven't lost yet. sure the turn 1 drop is scary and can put a hurt on a few units. But it's not as great as it sounds against eldar. Let's say you take 1 skyhammer, that's maybe 4 units you can kill first turn, and if you take 2 skyhammers you can kill maybe 7-8 but that's if your opponent doesn't know how to deploy. I have 5 units of 3 bikes and 3 units of 1 d-cannon. You deploy the bikes in the corner and then your creat and wall with the D- cannons in front of them bubble wrapping the unit. If he shoots the d-cannons then awesome my bikes are safe if he shoots the bikes yeah you'll kill maybe 4 units that's if I don't jink, after that turn I fly away and your stuck walking around and then hemlocks mop up those marines. The skyhammer is good don't get me wrong, but a smart player knows how to deploy against it to lessen the blow and then play around it after first turn.

jakejackjake wrote:
8 hits on the wk, five wounds that get a five up so 1-2 saves followed by another on average means the wraithknight shouldnt die often to the ten shots. It should die pretty consistently towards the 13

Your maths is off. But yes you'd put the 13 at the Wraithknight.

10 shots vs 3+ save = 8.89 hits and 7.9 wounds. Its touch and go whether that would kill the knight (average 5.2 unsaved wounds).