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Europe is in the middle of a refugee/immigration crisis at the moment. There have been astonishing scenes this week with hundreds of migrants attempting to storm on to lorries and ferries bound for the UK through Calais, which is the main crossing point for both sea ferries and the Channel Tunnel. The situation has been made worse by strikes causing long delays in departures, leading to queues up to seven miles long of lorries waiting to board their trains or ferries.

The Calais local police chief has blamed Britain for the problem, though since it is all happening on French soil his logic is is difficult to understand, as we have no jurisdiction there.

The solution is simple. The UK should take back Calais and operate border control around the port and Eurotunnel terminal. Residents of the town would not even have to change nationality, since they are EU citizens. The police and local government would have to be replaced with British systems, though.

I find the reactions of the Calais authorities staggering, to be frank. The immigrants are illegal in France as well as Britain, and on French soil. We could quite legitimately say, 'Not our problem', but we put in a fair bit of money and resources to help out.

As far as I'm concerned, the logical thing to do is to select a more obscure spot on the French coast as a designated transit point, build in as much security as possible, and then transfer the transit point there.

But then, I'm sure all the Calais officials wiould whinge just as much once they saw all that lovely traffic/tourist revenue drying up.

Problems at Calais.
What we should say is not our problem, and by EU law they should claim asylum in France, as its the first nation visited.

the French claim the UK cannot change their EU treaty membership but must continue under current rules. Current rules are not actually being applied.
If they were the UK can DNA tag every one of those migrants and if they appear in the UK kick them out and say quite rightly under EU law they are France's problem.

Calais itself.
As for invading Calais, its ours anyway, until the incompetent whiny idiot queen Mary Tudor was stinking up the throne room. We held it longer than the French did, they haven't even had it five centuries yet, and are slacking. Time to reclaim the city.
I am always up for a bit of Frog bashing, it's been centuries since we last invaded, 1944 doesnt count as De Gaulle was apparently on our side, yeah right.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Europe is in the middle of a refugee/immigration crisis at the moment. There have been astonishing scenes this week with hundreds of migrants attempting to storm on to lorries and ferries bound for the UK through Calais, which is the main crossing point for both sea ferries and the Channel Tunnel. The situation has been made worse by strikes causing long delays in departures, leading to queues up to seven miles long of lorries waiting to board their trains or ferries.

The Calais local police chief has blamed Britain for the problem, though since it is all happening on French soil his logic is is difficult to understand, as we have no jurisdiction there.

The solution is simple. The UK should take back Calais and operate border control around the port and Eurotunnel terminal. Residents of the town would not even have to change nationality, since they are EU citizens. The police and local government would have to be replaced with British systems, though.

What your saying is it's all the fault of Henny II of France, and all we need is a few hundred longbowmen to sort it out?

 Orlanth wrote:

I am always up for a bit of Frog bashing, it's been centuries since we last invaded, 1944 doesnt count as De Gaulle was apparently on our side, yeah right.

Could you imagine the Queen in full battle regalia today? Actually that thought makes me giggle a bit. But, IMO, you're not thinking this all the way through.... Ya'll should be pushing for your "true" ancestral lands. I'd say you need to push for the map to look more like it did in 1428 when you had quite a bit of "Burgundian" lands as well

Don't bother with it. The French will just go on strike.

 Orlanth wrote:

I am always up for a bit of Frog bashing, it's been centuries since we last invaded, .

I love it. On Dakka the N word is forbidden, but my family can be called Frogs. Love the even enforcement. Not mad at you, Orlanth, there's quite a bit we agree on.

Funnily enough, one of the French slang words for British is "grenouille" meaning frog, and that isn't baned either.

And jock's thrown about constantly when talking about the Scots...

Pom however results in mod warnings. =P

From what I've seen about the situation it comes across as though the French authorities are swamped there and instead of dealing with the issue on their end they just wait for the British to pick up the illegals. The law's odd in that Calais can be filled with tons of these people, and yet the French don't just lift the lot of them and put them in centers like the Italians. ...That is if someone wants to pay for such places that is.

So how is the matter of not being able to deport someone because they don't have a known country of origin sorted out? Just leave these people to wander about freely, even though they're known to be in the country illegally, or throw them into a prison indefinitely?

Would-be asylum seekers can have official papers (for example, valid Libyan passports) and still seek asylum based on the legitimate reasons of persecution and so on. They have to declare their claim to immigration officials as soon as possible after arriving in the EU.

From that angle, all the immigrants are Calais are by definition illegal as they have entered the EU somewhere and made their way to Calais, and are trying to get to the UK, and haven't made an asylum claim.

I don't know what happens if they have no passport and refuse to give their actual nationality. I should have thought that experts in culture and languages could tell if you are Somalian, Libyan, French or whatever, even if you don't have a passport. Perhaps they could then be deported. It all takes time and money, of course.

I do have sympathy for the people in North Africa, which, given the events in Tunisia yesterday, chillingly reminiscent of the Egyptian massacre in Luxor (1997) and the Mumbai attack a couple of years ago, looks like much of the northern part of the continent is sliding into anarchy, sectarian violence and increasing poverty.

However it is obvious that Europe cannot take in millions of people from north Africa. The crisis has to be solved by making their home nations habitable -- stable, safe, well-governed and prosperous.

Rescuing thousands of boat migrants and taking them into the EU, while humanitarian, will only encourage others to follow. Ironically, the people trying to emigrate probably are the kind of normal families, would-be hard workers and so on who would much rather stay in their homes and build a better life their if it was not for the disruption caused by factionalism.

Relapse wrote:
On Dakka the N word is forbidden, but my family can be called Frogs.

That is quite different. We French people did not have to suffer from English domination and enslavement and institutionalized racism and all that for centuries. Therefore, if Orlanth want to call us Frogs, well… that will not make me look like a bubbling idiot.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Funnily enough, one of the French slang words for British is "grenouille" meaning frog, and that isn't baned either.

That slang must not be very popular because I never heard of it. Rosbif is the usual slang.

Relapse wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

I am always up for a bit of Frog bashing, it's been centuries since we last invaded, .

I love it. On Dakka the N word is forbidden, but my family can be called Frogs. Love the even enforcement. Not mad at you, Orlanth, there's quite a bit we agree on.

And Australians are called Aussies, Americans Yanks, Germans Kraut, and so on. They've evolved into something more resembling affectionate national nicknames by this stage of the game. When looking at a word, it is important to examine what (if any) malice is behind it, by the user and others in contemporary times. Here, there is quite clearly none by anyone (unlike the 'n' word).

I mean, I could get upset if Hybrid above chose to call me a Goddam, but quite frankly, it would amuse me and I'd assume he was joshing around.

Wyrmalia wrote:From what I've seen about the situation it comes across as though the French authorities are swamped there and instead of dealing with the issue on their end they just wait for the British to pick up the illegals. The law's odd in that Calais can be filled with tons of these people, and yet the French don't just lift the lot of them and put them in centers like the Italians. ...That is if someone wants to pay for such places that is.

So how is the matter of not being able to deport someone because they don't have a known country of origin sorted out? Just leave these people to wander about freely, even though they're known to be in the country illegally, or throw them into a prison indefinitely?

It does feel somewhat from the interviews I've read on the BBC, as if the French authorities regularly pick them up and then release them again to spare themselves the trouble of having to deal with them, in the hope they make their way to Britain and become our problem. Which is a little bit cheeky.

I honestly think the Daily Mail is blowing this out of proportion. As usual!

 Ketara wrote:
I mean, I could get upset if Hybrid above chose to call me a Goddam, but quite frankly, it would amuse me and I'd assume he was joshing around.

A Goddam ? Never heard that expression. Slang for British?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
I mean, I could get upset if Hybrid above chose to call me a Goddam, but quite frankly, it would amuse me and I'd assume he was joshing around.

A Goddam ? Never heard that expression. Slang for British?

That one was in a book I read once. I think it comes from the Hundred Years War.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
I mean, I could get upset if Hybrid above chose to call me a Goddam, but quite frankly, it would amuse me and I'd assume he was joshing around.

A Goddam ? Never heard that expression. Slang for British?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_goddams

Pretty obscure today, but I've had a French history student address me as such before. I then proceeded to buy him a pint.

Eh, it is funny: there is no page for this on French wikipedia, only on English wikipedia ^^.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Relapse wrote:
On Dakka the N word is forbidden, but my family can be called Frogs.

That is quite different. We French people did not have to suffer from English domination and enslavement and institutionalized racism and all that for centuries. Therefore, if Orlanth want to call us Frogs, well… that will not make me look like a bubbling idiot.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Funnily enough, one of the French slang words for British is "grenouille" meaning frog, and that isn't baned either.

That slang must not be very popular because I never heard of it. Rosbif is the usual slang.

And we are not upset to be called Rosbifs by the Frogs, its part of the old rivalry which predates the current climate of hair trigger fragile sensiblities., and we need those like a hole in the head.

French are called frogs not due to the letter F connection, but because its a descendant of the term crapaud, meaning 'toad' and was the colloquial name for the fleur de lys, but both French and English alike. Which appeared from a distance to be a row of splayed toads. The fleur de lys of course also featured on some English royal banners, but that was different, those weren't crapaud.
Toads over time became frogs, mostly due to frogs legs a supposedly common item in the French diet.

Rosbifs means 'roast beefs' and is directly a mild culinary insult, but again over time is just means English. It helps that the rosbif connection is not seen as a deep insult either. In fact the Yeoman Guard of the tower are still referred to as 'beefeaters'. Beef was the stereotypical English diet, especially of John Bull.

Both Rosbif and Frog are quasi complementary and they are plays on mild cultural stereotypes which were acceptable features of each others national character. Being compared to the stereotypical obese beef eating John Bull was not an actual insult to the English., and Crapaud was a common enough term.
This isnt to say we were buddies, some satire was intentionally inflammatory, but the name calling had a dignity to it. When insulting each other, common acceptable phrases were used, the insult came in condemning what each other was doing.


The national character was never seen as sleek and handsome. Vanity was not an applied virtue in the cartooning of the age.


John Bull got a makeover, but never lost his gut.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ketara wrote:
I mean, I could get upset if Hybrid above chose to call me a Goddam, but quite frankly, it would amuse me and I'd assume he was joshing around.

A Goddam ? Never heard that expression. Slang for British?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_goddams

Pretty obscure today, but I've had a French history student address me as such before. I then proceeded to buy him a pint.

Not so, its has evolved. Due to chav holidaymakers and their exceptionally low behaviour standards the name has changed to les feth offs.
In Europe the English have a well earned reputation of consisting of both the most gentlemanly of people and also the most rudely uncultured. with very little in between.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

I am always up for a bit of Frog bashing, it's been centuries since we last invaded, 1944 doesnt count as De Gaulle was apparently on our side, yeah right.

Could you imagine the Queen in full battle regalia today? Actually that thought makes me giggle a bit. But, IMO, you're not thinking this all the way through.... Ya'll should be pushing for your "true" ancestral lands. I'd say you need to push for the map to look more like it did in 1428 when you had quite a bit of "Burgundian" lands as well

It can be done. First by ignoring the politicians, they are all either too soft, grasping, lazy or blundering to get anywhere; Her Majesty only needs to cast her royal eyes over the current map of France, remark its extent is displeasing to one, and a ten thousand clones of Matty will leap up and headbutt their way to the gates of Paris. We will win of course, but through general incompetence not be able to keep hold of the territory recovered for long. It was always the problem with invading France, the blighters only need to win once and kept on coming back after every defeat, often decades later; those cheating underhand snail-munchers.

 Orlanth wrote:
Toads over time became frogs, mostly due to frogs legs a supposedly common item in the French diet.

Not common, but certainly quite unique to it.

 Orlanth wrote:
In Europe the English have a well earned reputation of consisting of both the most gentlemanly of people and also the most rudely uncultured. with very little in between.

But Americans have a much stronger reputation of swearing a lot. Like the Smurf language, except replacing smurf by some word that dakka filter will replace by feth.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
In Europe the English have a well earned reputation of consisting of both the most gentlemanly of people and also the most rudely uncultured. with very little in between.

But Americans have a much stronger reputation of swearing a lot. Like the Smurf language, except replacing smurf by some word that dakka filter will replace by feth.

We like to get creative with our swearing over here in the states. It keeps the mind sharp.

My dad used to work in immigration in Rosslare, where there is a ferry connection to Cherbourg and Le Harve. He used to say similar things about the French immigration guys, but I think it's probably the usual grousing that goes on in these places. I'm not sure his co-workers were really all that much better.

The strikes though, those were another thing. Growing up, my image of French people was pretty much defined by rude tourists, and the suffering of the animals in the big transporter lorries waiting in the summer heat to travel across to France when some blockade or strike was on.

In a way, I can respect their dedication to maintaining their working conditions etc. But in another, it was bloody inconvenient, inhuman and unpleasant to be on the other end of.

On national cat-calling, I think it mostly depends on how acrimonious the history was and the relative power of the factions involved. I get called a Paddy a fair bit, less often a Mick, and neither of those annoy me overmuch. Being called a Taigh makes me raise an eyebrow, but it's not so bad. I hate potato jokes though and consider them to be in extremely poor taste and not funny at all. I mostly respond by calling my co-workers brits, I never use Sassanach as I consider it a bit offensive.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
In Europe the English have a well earned reputation of consisting of both the most gentlemanly of people and also the most rudely uncultured. with very little in between.

But Americans have a much stronger reputation of swearing a lot. Like the Smurf language, except replacing smurf by some word that dakka filter will replace by feth.

However the average uncouth American moron never bothers to get a passport, the English morons however do so to follow the football teams or go to their breeding grounds in Ibiza. It's like unto an animal migration in many ways though Bison andWildebeest smell less, think more and have milder tempers.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
In Europe the English have a well earned reputation of consisting of both the most gentlemanly of people and also the most rudely uncultured. with very little in between.

But Americans have a much stronger reputation of swearing a lot. Like the Smurf language, except replacing smurf by some word that dakka filter will replace by feth.

However the average uncouth American moron never bothers to get a passport, the English morons however do so to follow the football teams or go to their breeding grounds in Ibiza. It's like unto an animal migration in many ways though Bison andWildebeest smell less, think more and have milder tempers.

Have a exhalt, best thing I've read all day.