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"Supreme Fire Discipline: Unless Jinking, all models in this Formation that have the Grim Resolve special rule fire Overwatch using their normal Ballistic Skill characteristic"

When these models fire overwatch, are they still making snap shots albeit at full BS, or can weapons that cannot fire snap shots be used to fire Overwatch by these models?

Looking for the answer I re-read the snap shots and overwatch rules and I was reminded that only rules the specifically modify the snap-shot can change the BS they are fired at, which means the SFD rule technically doesn't do anything for the BS of a snap shot.

So, using only the RAW, which do you believe is correct any why?

When these models fire overwatch, they are still making snap shots albeit at full BS
When these models fire overwatch, they are still making snap shots at BS1
When these models fire overwatch, they are not making snap shots at all.

Then, HWYPI, and why?

I believe (RAW) is A) Snap Shots at full Ballistic Skill. Which is also HIWPI.

As for why, there are a few things to consider.

Overwatch is resolved as Snap Shots
Snap Shots are an unmodifiable BS1 (generalizing here).
Special rule says fire Overwatch at normal BS.
Special rule overrides BS1, but does not override resolve shots as Snap Shots.

RAW, because the rule does not "specifically state" that it can modify snap shots, it cannot. Overwatch is firing Snap-shots, but the BS can be modified under specific circumstances (i.e. Tau Markerlights), but is still snap-shots. Therefore it does nothing and is a pointless rule.

HIWPI (and what I believe the is the RAI) is that it can modify snap-shots for Overwatch, but was just written by the bemused janitor they replaced the rules-writing team with. Whilst there are almost certainly instances of rules that do nothing within the game, given that the only way to overwatch at anything other than BS1 involves modifying snap-shots, anything that states it modifies overwatch must modify snap-shots. Still no firing of Blast weapons though.

Yeah, that's how I'd play it too - just like Tau Markerlights, they fire at full BS, but those are still Snap Shots.

RAW: Technically, there is no such thing as firing Overwatch shots - there's firing Overwatch, which is done as Snap Shots. Since this is the case, "using their normal Ballistic Skill" can only mean that it's referencing the Ballistic Skill used to fire a Snap Shot as part of an Overwatch attack. That is as specific as the rule needs to be to override the rulebook.

However, the rules do state that Template and Blast weapons cannot be fired as Snap Shots. These are still Snap Shots, but fired with a different Ballistic Skill, and thus are not fired even though the models are using their "normal" ballistic skill.

HIWPI: Same thing. Fire at full ballistic skill, but it's still a Snap Shot, so no blasts/templates.

RAW: you are firing overwatch, therefore making snap shots, but the specifically alters the snap shot bs(to normal). You make snapshos but cannot fire blast, ordnance, or templates(well... Wall of death still since it is overwatch)

RAI: a case could be made that it was intended to resolve overwatch without any snapshots if that is an exact quote. But we really have no way of knowing their intention on this so the safest read is as an alteration of snap shots.

HIWPI: somewhere in between. Blasts ok, no ordnance, and wall of death for templates.

Relevant question:

How does grim resolve and overwatch targeting an invisible target work?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
RAW: you are firing overwatch, therefore making snap shots, but the specifically alters the snap shot bs(to normal). You make snapshos but cannot fire blast, ordnance, or templates(well... Wall of death still since it is overwatch)

RAI: a case could be made that it was intended to resolve overwatch without any snapshots if that is an exact quote. But we really have no way of knowing their intention on this so the safest read is as an alteration of snap shots.

HIWPI: somewhere in between. Blasts ok, no ordnance, and wall of death for templates.

I have a problem with your HIWPI.
Lets's say your HIWPI gets used, on a charging unit 12" away who managed to make the charge. Flame templates are 8", so they are now useless. And on the subject of blast weapon overwatch, are you resolving that with a scatter dice?

Wall of death can still be used no matter how far away the charging unit is 1" or 12".

Bullveye wrote:
Wall of death can still be used no matter how far away the charging unit is 1" or 12".

What is wall of death?

 Selym wrote:
What is wall of death?

It's the part of the Template rules that template weapons use when firing overwatch. As mentioned in the earlier post by Kommissar Kel.

The D3 hits part? Huh. I never realised it was called that.
I thought it was something else. Like a reference to template spam.

Overwatch is not the SOLE cause of snap shots.

The rule was worded the way it was so that moving Devastators weren't firing to full effect, etc.

It only modifies the Snap Shots taken as part of Overwatch, but does specifically mention SOME snap shots thus allowing it to modify the BS of THOSE snap shots.

So they fire overwatch at full BS, they can Wall of Death, but they can't blast, or precision shot, etc.

 juraigamer wrote:
Relevant question:

How does grim resolve and overwatch targeting an invisible target work?

Well as normal. You fire your snapshots at full bs due to your special rule, you can't wall of death as it isn't a snap shot and you can't fire blast weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the thread it is option 1 RaW. The rule specifically states it modifies Overwatch which is specific enough to override the snap shot rule as it calls out a specific subset of Snap Shots.