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Would you use augmented reality in tabletop games if it was available? Or is the manual nature part of the charm? How much use (if any) is appropriate? Units? Terrain? Effects? More that I'm not thinking of?

I am not sure how I would feel if it became widespread in tabletop gaming. For something like instant-terrain, I think it could be really cool (think smoking buildings, maybe destroyed effects on vehicles.) At the same time, I think it takes away from the 'soul' of the hobby. Painted tables and terrain are just as important as minis.

Thoughts? Ideas on how to implement? General discussion?

Thanks for entertaining my scatter-brain, dakka.

Augmented how.. like that new minecraft goggle thing? or table display?

I think it would be pretty cool to use laser projectors to put down templates and mark destroyed vehicles or ongoing effects.

We already do fog of war using vapes

The hands-on aspect is why I game.

Without that - it's just a video game, and they bore me. Pushing pixels isn't the same as doing stuff with your hands.

I like carpentry - even though I CAN buy stuff ready made - the DIY aspect has a quality all of its own, though.

I have seen some technology that essentially looks like miniatures on a table, and you move little plastic markers that then move the "miniatures."

The Augmented Reality automatically maps out the region where the piece can move, by displaying a highlighted area of terrain, anywhere inside of which the piece may move (automatically taking into account terrain). In addition, it automatically displays firing solutions, and lines of sight to enemy positions.

But.... It is just a technology demonstrator, and not a product aiming at the general market.

It was built for architects, but the GUI was easily reprogrammed to re-create a WWII game (or a "sort-of" game, since it had no resolution effects, and just demonstrated a few possible effects).

I would not wind such a technology as a compliment to miniature gaming. And play some games this way.

But I would still be interested in retaining actual physical miniatures for play.

One thing that was mentioned, though, was an AR projection system, like the NFL uses to display things like the Line the ball is on, the first-down marker, and annotating plays during replays.

That could make for an interesting addition to actual miniature games.

MB

I always thought that the use of RFID could really work well in miniature games.


You could have a computer readout of exactly how far two miniatures are from each other so there is no disagreement over it. If weapons are in range, charges are in range... that sort of thing.

It would be reasonably easy to put an RFID chip in the base of each mini and it could be programmed as needed (based on the system).

 chromedog wrote:
The hands-on aspect is why I game.

Without that - it's just a video game, and they bore me. Pushing pixels isn't the same as doing stuff with your hands.

I like carpentry - even though I CAN buy stuff ready made - the DIY aspect has a quality all of its own, though.

I totally agree with you. The-hands on aspect is definitely important. Would you play with your own painted minis on a blank table, but glasses allow you to see terrain? How about dice tools?


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hammeyaneggs wrote:
I always thought that the use of RFID could really work well in miniature games.


You could have a computer readout of exactly how far two miniatures are from each other so there is no disagreement over it. If weapons are in range, charges are in range... that sort of thing.

It would be reasonably easy to put an RFID chip in the base of each mini and it could be programmed as needed (based on the system).

I hadn't thought of a chip in the base. That might allow your minis to have muzzle flashes, they can 'talk,' etc. Makes me curious for sure.


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 Desubot wrote:
Augmented how.. like that new minecraft goggle thing? or table display?

I think it would be pretty cool to use laser projectors to put down templates and mark destroyed vehicles or ongoing effects.

We already do fog of war using vapes

I was specifically talking about glasses kind of like the minecraft thing, yeah. Something that doesn't actually exist, but you can see through the device. I watched a demo of a different device where people were playing a board game. The board game had effects, and my mind immediately sprang to wargaming.

There is a game called "Golem Arcana" that uses stylus pen and your tablet or phone to enhance your gaming experience, while reducing the amouth of time spent learning the rules and trying to keep them all in your head.
http://golemarcana.com/

But I'm not sure would I like to see it in Warhammer. Collecting minis and assembling/painting them, looking at some famous terrain pieces and trying to make your own, fielding your army and making the narrative follow your battle is... Irreplaceable!

 zgort wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Augmented how.. like that new minecraft goggle thing? or table display?

I think it would be pretty cool to use laser projectors to put down templates and mark destroyed vehicles or ongoing effects.

We already do fog of war using vapes

I was specifically talking about glasses kind of like the minecraft thing, yeah. Something that doesn't actually exist, but you can see through the device. I watched a demo of a different device where people were playing a board game. The board game had effects, and my mind immediately sprang to wargaming.

No thanks then

I wouldn't be interested. It is basically a computer game then, but without the convenience of being compact.

I would pay a lot of money for certain enhancements, like for example being able to show unit rules in the air next to units and other stuff to help speed up play.

 zgort wrote:

I totally agree with you. The-hands on aspect is definitely important. Would you play with your own painted minis on a blank table, but glasses allow you to see terrain? How about dice tools?

I don't even use dice rolling APPS - I've coded my own for android - just to see if I could, but unless they properly reseed the RNG algorithm, it's about as random as a badly made die. Besides, you can throw real dice across the room when they fail you. Tossing your phone or tab is a bad idea.
The real thing or go home. I wasn't of the generation born with a dualshock controller in their hands. I'm much older than that.

hammeyaneggs wrote:
I always thought that the use of RFID could really work well in miniature games.

I'm honestly surprised that they don't use this system for the Disney infiniteeee type console games already. It's not like it couldn't be used - the tech is ready to go. It's no different to other P2P "collectible" games ...

Minecraft? Sheesh. I grew up with graphics like that - I thought the world had moved on from 8bit to be honest. I don't miss those days at all.

 Desubot wrote:

No thanks then

Yeah I think I'm with you. The one advantage I could see is for effects like smoking terrain, background noises, music, etc. Things that generally increase atmosphere, add to the minis, not replace them.

Also, if you were a new player, it would be nice to play with digital terrain before your minis are complete. Digital terrain is better than books/coffee cans until your collection gets going.

Nothing can replace those minis though.

For games that have AOE weapons, a laser marker showing the affected table space would not be unwelcome.

 chromedog wrote:

 zgort wrote:

I totally agree with you. The-hands on aspect is definitely important. Would you play with your own painted minis on a blank table, but glasses allow you to see terrain? How about dice tools?

I don't even use dice rolling APPS - I've coded my own for android - just to see if I could, but unless they properly reseed the RNG algorithm, it's about as random as a badly made die. Besides, you can throw real dice across the room when they fail you. Tossing your phone or tab is a bad idea.
The real thing or go home. I wasn't of the generation born with a dualshock controller in their hands. I'm much older than that.

hammeyaneggs wrote:
I always thought that the use of RFID could really work well in miniature games.

I'm honestly surprised that they don't use this system for the Disney infiniteeee type console games already. It's not like it couldn't be used - the tech is ready to go. It's no different to other P2P "collectible" games ...

Minecraft? Sheesh. I grew up with graphics like that - I thought the world had moved on from 8bit to be honest. I don't miss those days at all.

Kids today don't really care about graphics, it's more about creativity and freedom... Which is pretty awesome imo. Us old guard are the ones obsessed with the newest and shiniest.

This is becoming a monthly thing it seems.

My answer, again, is no as it takes away the point of it all for me which is the hobby first.

 Coldhatred wrote:
This is becoming a monthly thing it seems.

My answer, again, is no as it takes away the point of it all for me which is the hobby first.

Is there a way to keep the hobby first and still have AR play a part?

hammeyaneggs wrote:
I always thought that the use of RFID could really work well in miniature games.


You could have a computer readout of exactly how far two miniatures are from each other so there is no disagreement over it. If weapons are in range, charges are in range... that sort of thing.

It would be reasonably easy to put an RFID chip in the base of each mini and it could be programmed as needed (based on the system).

RFID doesn't work that way, it is simply a electromagnetic induction coil that emits the same unique block of bytes when induced. I.E. it needs no battery. Though it is a proximity inductor it provides no way of generating position whatsoever, that is most easily done with 3 to 5 fixed cameras and software to work out the moving items relative location. It would be hard to make a system like that robustly useable.. if you used gps it would be far too imprecise

That's the first thing I thought of too when I saw the augmented reality minecraft demo. I'd love to have a go of a virtual 40k!

You could command the units by tapping on the board with a stylus and the graphical miniatures could be animated. All the dice rolls would happen behind the scenes so if you command a unit to fire at an enemy you'd see your guys shoot and the enemy unit would suffer casualties at the same time. It would probably be too impractical but a man can dream!

 Flashman wrote:
For games that have AOE weapons, a laser marker showing the affected table space would not be unwelcome.

Already exists, just needs the app made for it.

MB


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 zgort wrote:

 Coldhatred wrote:
This is becoming a monthly thing it seems.

My answer, again, is no as it takes away the point of it all for me which is the hobby first.

Is there a way to keep the hobby first and still have AR play a part?

Yes, as I already mentioned.

Sort of like how they project stuff onto the field on a TV for NFL games.

MB

Mymearan wrote:

Kids today don't really care about graphics, it's more about creativity and freedom... Which is pretty awesome imo. Us old guard are the ones obsessed with the newest and shiniest.

You misunderstood me. I DGAF about modern computer games EITHER. I can be blocky and creative with lego - and then leave the pieces on the floor for people to stand on.
Minecraft CAN'T do that. :p

 Jimmy_Sip wrote:
That's the first thing I thought of too when I saw the augmented reality minecraft demo. I'd love to have a go of a virtual 40k!

You could command the units by tapping on the board with a stylus and the graphical miniatures could be animated. All the dice rolls would happen behind the scenes so if you command a unit to fire at an enemy you'd see your guys shoot and the enemy unit would suffer casualties at the same time. It would probably be too impractical but a man can dream!

If Hololens could make a Warhammer or Mordheim-type game I don't think I'd ever leave home. I don't mind using AR minis - the instant gratification of playing with a fully painted and animated army, cool terrain, etc. is a big plus. No need for storage and you can play people all over the world at any time. Given that I'm pressed for hobby time as it is, I think this would be fantastic.

Golem Arcana, unfortunately, I think is a poor substitute. I wanted it to work but, having played Ex Illis, knew in the back of my mind that it wasn't going to take off. The problem - using an app to be the bulk of your game draws your attention away from the board too much. You and your opponent are both just staring at the screen for the most part, the miniatures are almost superfluous. Prepainted wasn't a draw either, but one could easily repaint them if you really wanted. Golem Arcana is better than Ex Illis was, which unfortunately was a bad video game

 Swan-of-War wrote:


If Hololens could make a Warhammer or Mordheim-type game I don't think I'd ever leave home.

It is surprising that GW has not tried to cash in on a digital version of their tabletop games. I suppose that would really hurt model sales for people that love the game and don't care for the hobby. We have all seen enough plain plastic armies to know that there are plenty. On the flip side, making a video game opens you up to millions more customers.

That is a bit off topic though - I like the idea of things just projected like the NFL 'first down' line. I don't think eliminating the tape measure would take away from the spirit of the game. Templates and tapes can get downright annoying sometimes, and AR could help the game move along much faster.

 Swan-of-War wrote:

Golem Arcana, unfortunately, I think is a poor substitute. I wanted it to work but, having played Ex Illis, knew in the back of my mind that it wasn't going to take off. The problem - using an app to be the bulk of your game draws your attention away from the board too much. You and your opponent are both just staring at the screen for the most part, the miniatures are almost superfluous. Prepainted wasn't a draw either, but one could easily repaint them if you really wanted. Golem Arcana is better than Ex Illis was, which unfortunately was a bad video game

That is true.

I can't wait for the day this is possible.

The process of painting and modeling would simply be replaced with digital equivalents.