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So Tzeentch. I want a sorceror, and a cult troop so Tzeentch it is, and let's face it there fluff is awesome. So I am looking to build a 1000 point list during the next couple of months. Where I want to start is the sorceror and a squad of 1K sons. But I am not sure what unit to put with the sorc.

I have 3 options.

1. term sorc with terminators. Although in lower points where can the sorc go if I have no terms?
2. Divination sorceror with MoT chosen, Flanders and the icon for some objective clearing. If I get forewarning the squad has a 3++
3. Sorc in the 1k sons squad and go divination again and buff them to the warp. Hopefully ignores cover , if not the two linked works alright


Which set up do you think would be best? Or do you ha e any other suggestions?
Note: not doing sorc in a cultist blob

So I'll do 3 lists featuring each option

List 1.

Sorc 157
MoT, 2 Psyker levels, terminator armour, combi-plas, force stave

5 terminators 226
MoT, heavy flamer, chain fist, 4 combi-plasma

1k sons 254
7 guys, sorc, rhino

7 chaos marines 141
Flamer, rhino

Autolas pred 115
Autolas pred 115

This list relies on the termi squad doing a lot when it comes down but once again a lot of pressure put on the opponent for what to shoot at, and still tricky for him to camp objectives or leave a unit stranded to the sons or terms.


List 2

Sorceror 150
MoT, bale star of Manson, 2 levels, force stave

8 chosen 190
MoT, 3 flamers, icon of flame

Rhino 35

Helbrute 105
Reaper auto

Helbrute 105
Reaper auto

5 1k sons 185
Rhino

5 chaos marines 115
Flamer, rhino

Auto las pred 115


Fewer bodies here but more armour. Chosen will be a huge threat to infantry and objective campers while the rest can focus on meq or tanks.

List 3

Sorc 150
Sigil, MoT, bale star, 1 extra level

Helbrute 105
Reaper auto

Helbrute 105
Reaper auto

8 1k sons 254
Rhino

8 chaos marines 154
Rhino, flamer

Auto las pred 115
Auto las pred 115

So this list has a bit more bodies in troops and has 2 pred 2 brutes 2 rhinos so threat priority will be tricky I think, the reapers are in brutes because I would prefer the chance of 4 str7 tl shots over 2 str8 shots from the missile launcher. Sorceror will try buff the sons while the sorc champ will hopefully get a decent power from the Tzeentch chart. Flamer in chaos squad to help contest objectives

So which option and list do you feel is better ? Really struggling to chose a unit for the sorceror to go with at the moment.

- Sorcerors always have ML3, no exceptions.
- If you don't have the balestar, you've got a Spell Familiar, no exceptions
- Not taking a sigil when taking MoT is only acceptable if you're taking terminator armour.
- Take Oblits instead of termies if you want some 2+ deep strikers to hang with.
- You have absoloutely no scatter mitigation (unless you ally in some daemons), think carefully about this and what rolling a 1 on the mishap table means
- Predators are generally bad, they're really bad when they're your only vehicles
- Chosen are pretty bad most of the time, MoT chosen are terrible.
- You can't cast anything but witchfires while in a transport
- Marines, even TSons, outside of their transport are 1 shooting phase away from being a memory
- Helbrutes are bad unless in their dataslate formation, then they are passable to OK
- You don't have a single Heldrake in any of those lists
- You have no AA, though the helbrutes might make a passable attempt at this points level

So, general stuff out of the way;

Your 1st list puts no pressure on anything. They will pop your transports and kill your troops before your termies come down, then focus the termies and your sorc down in 1 round before you can move.

Your 2nd list won't have the threat lelvel you're hoping for since you're relying on your transport to not get blown up 1st or 2nd turn, and given that it's a AV 11 box, that's not a great plan.

Your 3rd list is much better, but still not great, though there's not much you can do about that with the chaos dex.

Suggested option;

175 - Sorceror, ML3, Sigil, MoT, Balestar
259 - 8x TSons, Melta Bombs, Rhino
205 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma Guns, Rhino
170 - Heldrake, Baleflamer
78 - 1x Obliterator, MoT
78 - 1x Obliterator, MoT

965

Spend your remaining 35 points on whatever. I'd consider the 2+ armour and melta bombs for your sorc. The rhinos are there for mobility and to prevent your dudes from getting annihilated before they can make midfield, expect them to die turn 1 if you can't hide them out of LoS, turn 2 if you can.

In all honesty, I'd drop 1x TSon (despite meaning they'd no longer make a unit of 9 with the sorceror) and spend the remaining points on a unit of cultists, but you said you didn't want cultists.

thanks for giving such good feedback

For the sorceror i tried to keep him under 160ish points as he is just a 2 wound model in a 1000 point game
i agree with MoT chosen being the worst but wanted to try the forewarning for a 3++, had a cool conversion in mind for them but oh well
i prefer termis over oblits, so taking any it will be termis.
i can always give the termis the reaper auto and foot slog forward, using the rhinos and smoke? this would mean i can cast any of my spells
what is so bad about predators? I can understand helbrutes being frowned upon but i do like the models so they arent too bad plus i have heard they can perform really well in games
i dont have a heldrake in any of the lists because at our club we have a rule of no flyer under 1500 points. even then a lot of the players are still learning the rules so flyers are extremely rare if non existant.
i have no trouble with using cultists, but i dont want the whole cultist blob with hq thing. but i didnt take cultists as i would be left with 1 rhino and thats just feeding.
if i dont want oblits and cant take the heldrake, and if preds really are that bad, what would you suggest taking instead?
i was going to look into allying daemons at some point in the future then go Tzeentch daemonkin if it comes out, but no clue on how to field that, nor if it would be good to do in 1000 points
what about the forgefiend? i could drop the preds for a hades autocannon one and go malefic powers to get scorched earth?\




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay so wrote a list for a doubles tournament at my club in a couple of months time. I imagine I'll be allying with the other chaos player who uses khorne I think. Here's the list

Sorceror 155
2 levels, MoT, aura, spell familiar, which force weapon is best? Was thinking the stave

Helbrute 105
Reaper auto

Helbrute 105
Reaper auto

5 1k sons 185. (I could always take regular csm here and upgrade them later to save points?)
Rhino

13 cults 62

2 spawn 68
MoT

2 Spawn 68
MoT

I actually like the idea for the spawn as it can go with Tzeentchy fluff and I can use them to screen my 1k sons and help with Tzeentch's Melee problem.
But the helbrutes I love the models and don't see them to be as bad as people say so I'm going to keep them in and go to mayhem pack in higher points to increase effectiveness.

If I swap the 1k sons out for CSM then it gives me more models but not as powerful guns.

What do you think here? Bear in mind this is let a serious competition so semi optimal lists are okay.

spawns are not daemons so they only get a 6++ invul with MoT.

Yea I know but 4 points to give them a shot at taking a hard hit is worth it to me I guess