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Context:
A wraith knight is charging a target unit encompassed by, but not in base contact with, barricades. The knight must end its movement atop a barricade to be in base to base contact with the target unit. The charge succeeds.

Question:
At what initiative step does the Wraithknight swing?

References:
BRB 55: "Move Initial Charger"
BRB 65: "JUMP UNITS"
BRB 67: "MONSTEROUS CREATURES"
BRB 70: "GARGANTUAN CREATURES"
BRB 168: "MOVE THROUGH COVER"
C: Craftworld
C: Stronghold Assault

Thank you for your time. I will reserve my opinion.

He charged through difficult terrain, so he fights at Intiative 1.

 insaniak wrote:
He charged through difficult terrain, so he fights at Intiative 1.

And based on the above notes, has Move Through Cover which means he's not slowed by difficult terrain, and the paragraph on difficult terrain that starts with "slowed by difficult terrain" is the one that has the initiative penalty.

Doesn't Move Through Cover USR state that they still fight at Initiative 1 when charging through terrain?

rollawaythestone wrote:
Doesn't Move Through Cover USR state that they still fight at Initiative 1 when charging through terrain?

No, but the rules for charging do.

 insaniak wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:
Doesn't Move Through Cover USR state that they still fight at Initiative 1 when charging through terrain?

No, but the rules for charging do.

There ya go, the rules for charging seperate "slowed by" and initiative 1 even if MtC doesnt.

Not sure what you're saying, there.

What it means is that a model with MtC still fights at Initiative 1 after charging through terrain, even though he isn't slowed by it.

I'm saying BRB makes (at least in the electronic book) it look like the I1 penalty is part of "slowed by" which may be what gave rise to this question, but as you pointed out, the rules for charging separate "slowed by" and I1 using the same phraseology that makes MtC look like it ignores the I1 penalty.

Breton, Insaniak, you're both right. Does this help?

Page 47: "Charging Through Difficult Terrain"

"Slowed by terrain" refers to the minus 2 inches. That's in the bold print on the first paragraph under "Charging Through Difficult Terrain".

The Init 1 issue is addressed two paragraphs down, that one's bold print:

"if at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charging move, all of the models attack at Initiative step 1 ... regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain."

Oh, and doktor_g, you might have also cited page 47.

Knowing exactly where the rule is helps next time you're holding the RB across the table during Turn 2.


@Insaniak
Did any of that come across as being a Smart-Aleck? I hope not.

Breton wrote:
I'm saying BRB makes (at least in the electronic book) it look like the I1 penalty is part of "slowed by" which may be what gave rise to this question, but as you pointed out, the rules for charging separate "slowed by" and I1 using the same phraseology that makes MtC look like it ignores the I1 penalty.

How are you seeing that as allowing MtC to ignore the initiative penalty?

The penalty is applied if a model moved through difficult terrain. MtC means that a model doesn't cop the reduced movement that would normally apply, but the model still moved through difficult terrain, so still fights at I1.

How are you seeing that as allowing MtC to ignore the initiative penalty?

I'm not, I explaining I think I'm seeing why this was a question.

In the electronic book, difficult terrain "slowed by" starts a single paragraph/entry that includes both the movement and Initiative penalty.

Move through cover says you are not "slowed by" difficult terrain

It's not until you get to the move chargers part that you can see "slowed by" and the initiative penalty as separate.

Does it matter at all that it also has the "jump" rule?

No, not according to the rules

 NightHowler wrote:
Does it matter at all that it also has the "jump" rule?

If it used its Jump Pack to charge, which you can only do if you don't use it to move more than 6" in the movement phase, it could potentially jump over difficult terrain and make it into base contact without ever touching the terrain. However if it has to land in terrain to actually be in base contact (keep in mind it has to move the shortest distance to the closest model), then it would still count as charging through terrain.

 NightHowler wrote:
Does it matter at all that it also has the "jump" rule?

No, because the OP mentioned he had to balance on the barricade, ending it's move in difficult terrain no matter how it moved there.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 NightHowler wrote:
Does it matter at all that it also has the "jump" rule?

If it used its Jump Pack to charge, which you can only do if you don't use it to move more than 6" in the movement phase, it could potentially jump over difficult terrain and make it into base contact without ever touching the terrain. However if it has to land in terrain to actually be in base contact (keep in mind it has to move the shortest distance to the closest model), then it would still count as charging through terrain.

It is a jump gargantuan creature though and gargantuan creatures can move 12 without a jump pack.

In either case, (using Jump or GargCreature Movement) it's gonna be Init 1 on the charge.

The only thing GargCreature moving 12 does, is allow the 'jump' mechanism to kick on the charge ... allowing for a re-roll on the charge distance. The -2 inches is ignored, but the WK is still gonna be swinging at Init 1.