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I am building a small Guard detachment to be allies for my Sisters of Battle. I am thinking of a Company command squad and a veteran squad or two to be back field objective holders and maybe pack some anti-air the Sisters are lacking (I know flack missiles are overpriced, but I am wondering if two would be worth it if nothing else to make the flyers jink.) Also I want a heavy of some type to provide some of the long range fire. The Manticore looks like a good option, 1 to 3 big templates of strength 10 at long range four times a game looks nice. I don't think the 4 shots is a real disadvantage, because before too long the Sisters will be up close and personal with the enemy and I may not want to fire and risk hitting them. The minimum range should not be a problem ether, If you are too close for the Manticore to shoot you should be in the sweet spot for the Sisters of Battle. Besides I think I can convert one from a Chimera I am trading for so it would be easy on the pocket book.

Anyone have experience using the Manticore? How does it perform?

In small games, a lucky T1 barrage can end the opponent.

In medium games, its a worrying threat.

In large games it's going to be a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX for the first turn, and will either die, or let you down with the Ap 4.
Alternatively, it might just feth their day up.

I'd take it.

Manticore is not a safe bet but, hell, that's the funniest ordnance of the Guard. One turn you can end up with one shot and kill one guardian because of scatter. Next turn, you can wipe several squads of motojets. Always nice to witness !

The question is what is your list lacking? A sisters list probably doesn't benefit that much from S10 with bad AP.

I have faced against it with a Tau list (admittedly not a Tau player so it didn't perform well and my dice were rolling badly anyway).

It didn't do much, LR did more and were more of a concern.

While the s10 is nice, the ap4 isn't very impressive. Eldar jetbikes and marines shrug it off, and considering how expensive it is, it doesn't quite deliver in my opinion.

I would rather take two Wyverns and have points left over, or if you're up for FW, Thudd Guns, Earthshakers or Medusa Batteries.

Mavnas wrote:
The question is what is your list lacking? A sisters list probably doesn't benefit that much from S10 with bad AP.

I want something to punish them for staying away and not engaging the sisters. Sisters are a up close game, if people come up and play I have a chance. If they just stay away and shoot with long range guns it is really hard. As it is now only my exorcist and maybe the avenger strike fighter do that. I want something scarier.

That is why my knight I got for an ally option is a crusader.

 SQRT(-2) wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
The question is what is your list lacking? A sisters list probably doesn't benefit that much from S10 with bad AP.

I want something to punish them for staying away and not engaging the sisters. Sisters are a up close game, if people come up and play I have a chance. If they just stay away and shoot with long range guns it is really hard. As it is now only my exorcist and maybe the avenger strike fighter do that. I want something scarier.

That is why my knight I got for an ally option is a crusader.

Yes, but what are you punishing? High-AV vehicles? Maybe? Multi-wound T5 or less things? Certainly not MEQ who can spread out and don't need cover against AP4.

If the answer is not one of those two, you'd be better off with one of the Russ variants or a wyvern.

On the other hand, if you want to force your opponent to come to you out of sheer fear, maybe a Deathstrike?

Earthshaker artillery carriages from FW would be excellent. Inexpensive (at least in points) T7 that have the same shooting profile as bassies.

It's hit or miss.

My favourite story is back in 6th. I play Eldar and have never used them. I puppet mastered my opponents Manticore. I managed to have it explode two Hydras and itself after it scattered back onto itself. Good stuff!

I think for hard hitting long ranged firepower, its worth using any of the leman russ variants, wyverns, or basilisks instead, leman russes provide a more survivable and more varied pool of different tanks to choose from to fit your needs. Wyverns turn hordes to liquid and even make TEQs shudder with having to roll that many saves. Basilisks make all people w/ a 3+ armour also feel threatened because although S10 is pretty great, AP4 does nothing against things that will need S10 to really hurt (centurions, meganobz, or any multi-wound TEQs), against necron warriors, it will do awesomely, but thats against one (admittedly OP) unit, and unless to tailor against them, it wont work.

if you want something to scare the living crap out of your opponent, just for the lolz. Bring a deathstrike, and basically use a combined platoon squad of like 20 guys with a priest, and bubblewrap it. Then T2 hopefully put down SD 10" blast. But if your opponent really wants it dead, it will be. But without him dedicating a ton of different units to kill it, or force him to spread out his forces.

This is from what I know about guard tactics, and general tactical advice, of course, I might be wrong, as I am VERY new to guard, so take what I say with a grain of salt, and have a happy time wargaming,

-Mikey

Well, What 'Russ would you use?

What opponents are you facing?
We kinda need to know.

Honestly the standard battle tank Leman Russ would be the one for harrassing the opponents back end with its 72 inch range. But its very much a middle of the road option and needs line of sight as it's Ordanance and not Barrage, I'd go with the Basilisk over as you specifically want to harrass the back end, it has a more powerful shot and it's not entirely useless below minimum range. As Gummyofallbears says it won't do much to Ceneturions and TEQs but I'd argue that they're rarely going to be in the back end of the opponents deployment zone.

I found that the main problem with the Manticore is that anything that the Manticore can hurt is going to be closing the distance fast, not to mention it's very unreliable. I turned mine into a Deathstrike. Now it may not exactly be an improvement in the reliability department but I've found it more useful and better at the job of making your opponent panic and not castle their forces together.

Also anti-air, here's an idea I've had but haven't ever needed to try. Instead of Flakk missiles, give both your vet squads autocannon heavy weapons, then use your CCS to give them both the 'Bring it Down' order when firing against flyers. Yeah, snapfiring and it may not mean much against the likes of a Helldrake but it's better than a flak missile. Consider looking into some forge world anti-air units as well.

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Manticore is not a safe bet but, hell, that's the funniest ordnance of the Guard. One turn you can end up with one shot and kill one guardian because of scatter. Next turn, you can wipe several squads of motojets. Always nice to witness !

Deathstrike!

If you do take a manticore, take the FW variant.

Not only is it cheaper, but it instead comes with a str 9 ap 2 7" blast manticore rocket rather than storm eagle ones.

Does a tank commander work? I could take a tank commander, a veteran squad and a 'Russ to get two tanks.

Take something like:

Pask [70 pts]
-Punisher w/Multimeltas, Lascannon, Dozer Blade [175 pts]
-Executioner w/Plasma Cannons, Dozer Blade [190 pts]


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
Does a tank commander work? I could take a tank commander, a veteran squad and a 'Russ to get two tanks.

That would be three tanks, as the commander has to take two in a squadron.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But again: WHAT OPPONENTS DO YOU FACE?

Take the imperial armor manticore.

Str 9 ap2 massive blast!

 Selym wrote:
Take something like:

Pask [70 pts]
-Punisher w/Multimeltas, Lascannon, Dozer Blade [175 pts]
-Executioner w/Plasma Cannons, Dozer Blade [190 pts]


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SQRT(-2) wrote:
Does a tank commander work? I could take a tank commander, a veteran squad and a 'Russ to get two tanks.

That would be three tanks, as the commander has to take two in a squadron.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But again: WHAT OPPONENTS DO YOU FACE?

I dunno about the Punisher, as he says his Sisters have the mid-range covered. I'd argue that the Vanquisher with its long range would be better in this position. Although I just think that VanqPask needs more love.

The Vanq is a waste of points, unless you plan on strapping plasma cannons onto it, and bum rushing an MC.

Generalist long range fire can be found in the standard LRBT, but it isn't what I'd pick, as it's ineffective against armour, and cover saves will be a pain in the ass. That and I have a bias against it due to never being able to kill Tactical Marines with it.

Seriously. Once took me 7 shots to score a single kill.

Back on topic, I like taking exterminators when I can't decide.

I'd take executioners with sponsons and something to give them rerolls.

Primaris psyker granting rerolls, and give the Executioners HB or Plasma sponsons, and a Lascannon hull.

I've not played mine much but it has always done something significant and paid its points back in damage. It hits like a Razorwing Jetfighter shooting off all its missiles, but does so for four rounds even if it can be random. I've wiped out bad news like a trio of War Walkers in one shot. Also, it's the exact sweet spot to murder a lot of Necron models, being S10, AP4 and Barrage; limits cover saves, often ignores armor and reduces Reanimation Protocols to a 5+ on most things in the army. Also being Barrage it reduces the ability of your opponent to tank on a special character since you're hitting from blast center. The number of times I've plastered Necrons with missiles or blasts, seen them take twenty plus wounds and only two casualties is tragic. It hurts squadrons of mid-light vehicles pretty readily too.

Well, first who do I play? Eldar, Grey Knights, Guard, Various Space Marines, Chaos Demons and Space Marines, and there is Tyrinids and Tau represented locally.

I think I am going to try a plain 'Russ, for it sounds like a well rounded option and I was able to trade for one.

I think I am going to do the Manticore conversion if for no other reason the fun of the build. Besides I want the Guard to be their own army for the next league, so I need options.

Good call, I say. Although the GK will probably require that you bring an Executioner sooner or later.