Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Working on the last 3 Tactical Squads of my Battle Company, and I want to see if I can make them more effective.
So, my current squads are: 2x Flamer + ML and MM, meltagun and combi-melta.
I want the squads to be at full 10 man size, but I'm not too bothered what they're armed with. Of course, I use UM tactics, possibly with Sicarius to act as a buff for them. Not overly fond of grav-cannons, but I'm open to persuasion.

I avoid heavy weapons on my Tacticals, that is what Devs are for. I run two squads of 10 with a Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, and a Meltagun each. I have run and got a lot of mileage out of a Combi-Plasma, Melta Bomb, and Plasmagun squad as well. Flamer squads aren't the worst, but they are the one spot I break my No-Heavy rule, since I run a Combi-Flamer, Melta Bomb, Flamer, and Heavy Flamer in my BA army.

Basically, run a Combi-Weapon paired with its regular special weapon and skip the Heavy Weapon.

My two Tac Squads are: Melta, Combi-Melta, Multimelta and Plasma, Combi-Plasma, Grav Cannon.

See I think heavy weapons make the tacs worth it. Get a good plasma cannon shot out of a rhino, or land a nice volley of grav cannon, and life is good.

DA tend towards shooty though...

The most flexible squad is melta and missile, then you can fight vehicles well - but it's not my favorite.

My favorite is plasma, plasma, and some extra plasma, but I fight lots of meq.

Grav is really an amazing choice, too, because you can move and still shoot heavy weapon twice at full BS. That's huge.

Depends on what the squad is for, really. It's probably wise to have a good mix of special weapons and change them out when you make new lists.

 zgort wrote:
See I think heavy weapons make the tacs worth it. Get a good plasma cannon shot out of a rhino, or land a nice volley of grav cannon, and life is good.

DA tend towards shooty though...

The most flexible squad is melta and missile, then you can fight vehicles well - but it's not my favorite.

My favorite is plasma, plasma, and some extra plasma, but I fight lots of meq.

Grav is really an amazing choice, too, because you can move and still shoot heavy weapon twice at full BS. That's huge.

Depends on what the squad is for, really. It's probably wise to have a good mix of special weapons and change them out when you make new lists.

QFT. I don't use tactical marines a lot (I have yet to run a Lion's Blade), and when I do, I often don't use the full 10 men. I also tend to pick their weapons based on the rest of the army to help fix any deficiencies.

You da man, Zerg

Every time I bring a MM in a tac squad, I end up regretting it. It just doesn't do the damage I want it to. If I take something heavy, I typically keep it in the back field (after putting the other 5 in a razorback or something) so as to use it as best as I can (and tank an objective).

I also find that people fear plasma cannon bearing marines more than they should, which they really shouldn't, but it's often an effective fire magnet. At least where I've played.

If you really want to use a 10-man Tactical Squad, spend the extra 35 points on a Grav Cannon to go with your Special Weapon. Grav Cannons are pretty good against most targets, even with horde opponents.
Other Heavy Weapons aren't worth it because Tactical Squads are expected to be on the move. Salvo takes care of this issue, which is funny as Salvo is an undesirable rule normally.

Could a squad be combat squadded to have a lascannon backfield? That would leave a combi/special weapon combat squad to go upfield into a better range?
If grav-cannons are taken, which transport is best to suit? I'm looking at Rhinos for the tactical flexibility.

The only ones a 10-man squad fits in are Rhinos and Drop Pods so those are your choices.

5 man with grav cannon.
If 10 man, grav cannon and combi assualt weapon of your choice and try to go ham.

^What do you mean "ham"?

'Hard as A Mofo'

To approach a situation with extreme enthusiasm and fearlessness.


I like Flamer + Heavy Bolter for anti-infantry, Plasma Gun + Missile Launcher for more static squads, and Melta gun + Grav Cannon for anti-tank. Combi weapons to match if I have the points. Lascannon definitely have a place in static squads.

Plasma Gun and Graviton Cannon.

Both are absolutely the best option in their respective choices.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Could a squad be combat squadded to have a lascannon backfield? That would leave a combi/special weapon combat squad to go upfield into a better range?
If grav-cannons are taken, which transport is best to suit? I'm looking at Rhinos for the tactical flexibility.

You could do this, yes. Another common approach is to combat squad 10 tacs into a rhino. You can then drop 5 on an objective if resistance is light, or drop all 10 and have 3, count em, THREE super scoring units. Your opponent has to completely destroy all 3 to shift you off. Very flexible, and helps saturate the board with targets.

I like rhinos for tactical squads. I would save razorback for devastators or shooty command squads

Sorry, this is a bit too late for the original poster, but it might be helpful for just general discussion...



I think you need to evaluate the role of the squad to decide what will fit best within the army as a whole.

I like full squads for assaulting and kill points mission. Combat squads for being assaulted, (where I just feed small squads to the enemy to gain more shots). Bolters are good against troops, so since the squad is mostly bolters, I want to fire mainly at troops.

For a good generalist squad I like flamer, combi-flamer and plasma cannon.

On offense, the flamers give a good little alpha burst (hopefully at a choke point), before they are consumed, and the plasma cannon hits grouped up models as well (perhaps after a low enemy consolidation roll, or exiting a vehicle). Supporting tank shocking vehicles can squeeze enemy models together. The plasma cannon has enough range so that the squads can support each other. With the re-roll doctrines, there is much less chance to Get Hot.. The plasma cannon has a chance against light vehicles, should that be the best or only target.

On defense, the flamers are great in overwatch. Combat squads can inter-space and force a disordered charge, denying the +1 charge bonus.

The issue with trying to fit them out with something is that they won't do it in a decent manner.

You wanna take out a dangerous vehicle? Bikers will catch them with Grav/Melta and you can do a Sternguard/LotD suicide attack. You can alternatively do a Multi-Melta Storm with a Combi-Melta and Melta Bomb Scout Sergeant.
Wanna get close and put the hurt on infantry? Scouts and Storms got a boost and can get REALLY close, as can Bikers.
You have dangerous MC's to deal with? Tie them up with Scouts or shoot them with Grav Bikers.

Basically, Bikers (who are going to end up as your troops anyway) and Scouts can easily do specific roles, and Tacticals do a less than mediocre job doing them. They're honestly NOT that flexible of a unit, and people calling them that clearly never been to a more competitive area.

So if you really want them, you can do one of few things:
1. Plasma Gun, Grav Cannon, Combi-Grav, Drop Pod or Rhino
2. Grav Cannon OR Plasma Gun, Razorbacks with Assault Cannon

Rhinos aren't really great, especially with the rise of Scatterbikes and Tau now on the way, since they'll pop them before you can deliver the cargo.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The issue with trying to fit them out with something is that they won't do it in a decent manner.

You wanna take out a dangerous vehicle? Bikers will catch them with Grav/Melta and you can do a Sternguard/LotD suicide attack. You can alternatively do a Multi-Melta Storm with a Combi-Melta and Melta Bomb Scout Sergeant.
Wanna get close and put the hurt on infantry? Scouts and Storms got a boost and can get REALLY close, as can Bikers.
You have dangerous MC's to deal with? Tie them up with Scouts or shoot them with Grav Bikers.

Basically, Bikers (who are going to end up as your troops anyway) and Scouts can easily do specific roles, and Tacticals do a less than mediocre job doing them. They're honestly NOT that flexible of a unit, and people calling them that clearly never been to a more competitive area.

So if you really want them, you can do one of few things:
1. Plasma Gun, Grav Cannon, Combi-Grav, Drop Pod or Rhino
2. Grav Cannon OR Plasma Gun, Razorbacks with Assault Cannon

Rhinos aren't really great, especially with the rise of Scatterbikes and Tau now on the way, since they'll pop them before you can deliver the cargo.

And yet,Tacticals are the bulk of a Demi-Company and at least a good chunk of a Gladius Strike Force. So if you want the Doctrines, and maybe the free transports, you ultimately need to make the most of them.

If you hate them, you can always min them out. But I don't think that adds well to the "tactical" (pun intended) discussion on how to best arm a full squad of Tacticals.


My personal feeling is that the basic marine is a pretty good deal for the 14 pts he costs. You get a lot of good stuff in just the basic power armor, wargear, and special rules. The basic marine is very flexible. Perhaps the best valued Swiss Army Knife of Warhammer 40K. If you can utilize that flexibility with various styles of play to oppose less flexible enemy armies, you can have a shot at a decent all comers list.


The new grav weapons are amazing with the doctrines. Movable, re-rollable hits and wounds on highly armored troops at AP2 and make them initiative 1 (and good on vehicles). But they cost a bunch of points, have short range, and you can't charge after firing.

The question is: Are they an auto include on Tacticals?



Is there a better choice to support your army as a whole? What is the best cheap and cheerful choice?

As is, for a full tac squad, the only viable heavy option is the Grav cannon. That aside, plasma, combi-plasma or melta, combi-melta would be my choice.
In my Gladius list, it goes 3 tacs with plasma, 3 with melta.

Tac marines for 14 sounds goog until you realize how inept they are at shooting and cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To me, the full squad doesnt even exist.

Martel732 wrote:
Tac marines for 14 sounds goog until you realize how inept they are at shooting and cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To me, the full squad doesnt even exist.

With either Bolter Drill or Raptors tactics massed fire can actually be pretty decent so Id consider it then.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Tac marines for 14 sounds goog until you realize how inept they are at shooting and cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To me, the full squad doesnt even exist.

With either Bolter Drill or Raptors tactics massed fire can actually be pretty decent so Id consider it then.

It's still only S4 shooting with Imperial Fists. Raptors are a little better off, but still inferior to Dire Avengers as a whole.

FW still meets to update their Tactics and Characters...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Tac marines for 14 sounds goog until you realize how inept they are at shooting and cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To me, the full squad doesnt even exist.

With either Bolter Drill or Raptors tactics massed fire can actually be pretty decent so Id consider it then.

It's still only S4 shooting with Imperial Fists. Raptors are a little better off, but still inferior to Dire Avengers as a whole.

FW still meets to update their Tactics and Characters...

Imperial Fists that get an HQ with Storm of Fire do fairly well. Giving them accurate Rending Bolters is pretty clutch. But even then, they probably shouldn't make up the bulk of an army. Especially when stuff like Sternguard exist.

I take 10-man squads all the time to absorb attacks and occupy space. The killing power of a basic Marine is pretty feeble but they do a good job at protecting the squad weapons and at controlling the battlefield just with their presence.

Think of it this way: something in your army is going to die, and die horribly. It might as well be the cheapest guys, not the expensive stuff that does the actual fighting. Use Tactical Marines en masses and maneuver them aggressively but intelligently, sticking in cover if you need to, and focussing on getting in the enemy's way.