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As the title says, what reliable ways does chaos have of giving eldar a tough time on the battlefield?

How do your chaos marines stand a chance fighting against the new Eldar?
What should i watch out for with the new Eldar?
What can reliably take out a Wraithknight with Scattershield?

I have a very large chaos marine army, including a knight. So pretty much all unit options are on the table. Cheers gents

Best option is for them to hide out in the warp until the next codex release. Unless the eldar player is specifically gimping their list to let chaos have a chance, they don't really.

Depends a couple weeks ago I didnt get tabled.

Usually its over by 2 or 3.

So no Chaos Marines dont compete with Eldar.

Its easier to tell you what not to watch out for with Eldar: Namely Wraithlord, Avatar, one or two named characters and howling banshees.

Heldrakes are good, nothing for Chaos is exceptionally good at killing Wraithknights, easier to try to tie them up with chaff like cultists. I dont use Forgeworld though.

It depends on whether the Eldar player is trying to keep friends.

I play Yriel, guardians, War Walkers and a handful of aspects in a few Wave Serpents. No jetbikes, no wraithknight, no seer councils. (Still a strong list)

And some times I will lose. Particularly against Nurgle.

May I recommend: Winged Daemon Prince with Black Mace, Heldrake, Plague Marines, Chaos Bikers with a Biker Lord, and a Chaos Relic Sicarian with Armoured Ceramite (That last one is really scary for Eldar - if your group allows Forge World and you can find something to field)

My group allows forgeworld, so i've been considering the use of decimators with conversion beamers, fortunately i have plenty of cult marines as well. But i typically field undivided chaos marines.

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
My group allows forgeworld, so i've been considering the use of decimators with conversion beamers, fortunately i have plenty of cult marines as well. But i typically field undivided chaos marines.

They can still be neutral colors but use Cult rules. You honestly think I would use those gash Plague Marine models or those terrible conversion kits for Noise Marines?

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
My group allows forgeworld, so i've been considering the use of decimators with conversion beamers, fortunately i have plenty of cult marines as well. But i typically field undivided chaos marines.

If your group allows FW it opens up some excellent options. Not enough to make it an even playing field but definitely enough to give you a solid chance.

Firstly I'd recommend taking your CSM's in a purge detachment. This gives you 4 HS slots, and your compulsory slots become 2 elites and 1 HQ. You also have 1 more HQ, 4 more elites (6 alltogether), 8 troops, 1 LoW, 1 fort, but no FA.
This detachment allows all flamers and frag missiles to become chemical weapons, which means they gain shred and gets hot.
Next there are a lot of units avaliable from IA:13 that I highly recommend.
The Sicaran is excellent against eldar. Keeping it base at 135pts is just a steal, and it doesn't care about jink saves.
Rapier batteries of all kinds are excellent, from insanely cheap quad heavy bolter batteries through very effective laser destroyers to the insanely brillant conversion beamer batteries... why insanely brilliant? Well because at 24" rather than 48" they become st10 ap1.
The hellblade is a very cheap effective fighter, of course you'd want to be upgrading its cannon though. It is outclassed though by the fireraptor which is the only CSM vehicle better than its C:SM counterpart.
Blood Slaughterers are another excellent option (I've been proxying DC dreads for them and despite the fact I have little control over them, they are extremly good when they hit the oponents line) they make dreadnoughts look terribad in comparison (rather than just poor). I imagine they work really well in conjunction with Maulerfiends but I don't have any Maulerfiends so I wouldn't know for definite.
The Spartan Assault Tank given ceremite armour gets a lot of thumbs up from many people too, if you're wanting to transport a big unit.
The non-LoW unit from IA:13 that I would recommend above all others, even the Sicaran and Fireraptor is the Dreadclaw Drop Pod. Don't be fooled - it is not a drop pod, to use it as such is a waste. It is a deepstriking, av12 allround, skimmer with the assault vehicle special rules. Put Abaddon and some termies or Kharn and some CSMs with MoK/Bezerkers in this bad boi and prepare to be amazed.
The unit which will give you the biggest edge back against Eldar is the Typhon. Probably the most undercosted unit avaliable to CSMs. For 370pts (with ceremite) you get an av14 all round superheavy with 6hp, immunity to melta, a 7" ignores cover st10 ap1 blast, and +1 to the thinderblitz table. Don't underestimate that last point. +1 to thunderblitz is amazing!
Outside of IA:13 there are 2 further recommendations I would make, the Deimos pattern Vindicator (a 3 shot laser destroyer tank if stationary for a mere 130pts) and the Chaos Knight... Chaos has now been granted the privilage of having Knights too.

Whatever you do though - don't get a decimator. They are garbage imo.

With the dex itself, I suggest BM DP and/or AoBF DP/CL on jugger. Or Be'lakor (data slate). Abaddon or Kharn for definite if taking a Dreadclaw.

Hope this helps.

Edit: When I say a 'solid chance', I mean in comparison to what you would have had... it will still be a massively uphill struggle against the new Eldar.

A typhon can lay the smack down on anything eldar bring, Killing everyhting outside of vehicles in one shot except for the avatar and wraithknight ofc. Their vehicles hate the main gun of the sicaran.
Though noise marines are pretty nice too with their blast masters, they also work well with biomancy possibly giving them relentless. And a crimson slaughter sorcerer with a force maul and the Slaughterer’s Horns that rolls iron arm can kill a wraightknight outright. That's 5 attacks (on the charge)at S10 Ap2 at iniative, instant death. Assuming you got force of anyway.
I'm not 100% sure about the knights stats, but at WS5 I think the sorcerer hits at 3+ and with a sigil the knight only has a 50% chance to hit and the sorcerer has a 50% chance to save, so should be fine since iron arm also gives him Tougness 7. If you get warp speed, all the better. If you don't then at least enfeeble makes the avatar vulnerable to being crushed by the typhon.

So if you find yourself running sorcerers a lot, keep that in mind.

They are in general not big fans of getting into melee with chaos, if you can catch them.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Firstly I'd recommend taking your CSM's in a purge detachment.

where are the rules for this purge detachment? this sounds most interesting...

 varl wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Firstly I'd recommend taking your CSM's in a purge detachment.

where are the rules for this purge detachment? this sounds most interesting...

The new Vraks book.

 varl wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Firstly I'd recommend taking your CSM's in a purge detachment.

where are the rules for this purge detachment? this sounds most interesting...

Imperial Armour Vraks

huh, didn't realize there were chaos goodies to be had in there. any other interesting bits in the vraks book worthy of mention for CSM?

For csm directly, I don't think so, jsut a slightly different flavor of rengade allies than IA13

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
It depends on whether the Eldar player is trying to keep friends.

I play Yriel, guardians, War Walkers and a handful of aspects in a few Wave Serpents. No jetbikes, no wraithknight, no seer councils. (Still a strong list)

And some times I will lose. Particularly against Nurgle.

May I recommend: Winged Daemon Prince with Black Mace, Heldrake, Plague Marines, Chaos Bikers with a Biker Lord, and a Chaos Relic Sicarian with Armoured Ceramite (That last one is really scary for Eldar - if your group allows Forge World and you can find something to field)

I play both factions, chaos is garbage compared to eldar but OP, the main thing to remember is to ignore anybody who says things about eldar and start with " if you want to keep friends", as these people know nothing. There are a dozen builds in the game very strong, eldar have a couple of them, as do marines, as do necrons as do skitarri/admech

 varl wrote:
huh, didn't realize there were chaos goodies to be had in there. any other interesting bits in the vraks book worthy of mention for CSM?

Not for CSM, the only thing for them in there is the Purge Detachment, but the Renegade factions in it are very good allies for CSM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stopcallingmechief wrote:

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
It depends on whether the Eldar player is trying to keep friends.

I play Yriel, guardians, War Walkers and a handful of aspects in a few Wave Serpents. No jetbikes, no wraithknight, no seer councils. (Still a strong list)

And some times I will lose. Particularly against Nurgle.

May I recommend: Winged Daemon Prince with Black Mace, Heldrake, Plague Marines, Chaos Bikers with a Biker Lord, and a Chaos Relic Sicarian with Armoured Ceramite (That last one is really scary for Eldar - if your group allows Forge World and you can find something to field)

I play both factions, chaos is garbage compared to eldar but OP, the main thing to remember is to ignore anybody who says things about eldar and start with " if you want to keep friends", as these people know nothing. There are a dozen builds in the game very strong, eldar have a couple of them, as do marines, as do necrons as do skitarri/admech

Eldar have the majority (not 'a couple') and the strongest however.

If this is the case then i may use chaos for friendly, narrative games and in the meantime before chaos get their new dex, play as renegade guardsmen using IG codex and dark mechancius using the Skitarii/Cult mech.

Otherwise, i'll be fielding anything nurgle for the time being. Furthermore, how would plague drones do against eldar? I'd love to try and field some

Don't use the IG codex for Renegades. Actual Renegades are FAR FAR better than IG! Unless of course you are planning to ally with Skitarii, then I suppose it will help prevent 'one eye open' rolls.

Roknar wrote:
For csm directly, I don't think so, jsut a slightly different flavor of rengade allies than IA13

There are some independent characters HQ's in the new Vraks books for Chaos Space Marines, as well as the Purge detachment

What can the renegades offer that normal guardsmen can not?

They are very very different lol.
They are the undisputed king of hordes for one and probably the same goes for pieplates. sooo....many....pies. I suppose spawn make better ogryns too. they still have their own version of ogryns mind you.

Pies they can shoot onto their own guys deliberately, which, iirc, causes no scatter. They even get to do the old conscript thing where they come back from reserves if you kill them.

They don't have orders and probably even worse morale.