Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The inquisition was originally founded, under the direction of the dying Emperor, to combat what he saw as the greatest threats to the Imperium - Aliens, Heretics, and Mutants?

Aliens, I can see. The Great Crusade was in equal parts an attempt to reunite Humanity, and a Xenocidal campaign of extermination. The Emperor was never a fan of Aliens. Heretics, I can also see. He was mortally wounded at the time at the hands of Horus, the arch-heretic, who'd managed to leave much of his life's work in ruins.

Now, taking into account the size and scope of these threats, where do mutants really rank? What existential threat to the Imperium have they ever mustered to put them at the forefront of the Emperor's mind at such a traumatic time, to the extent he ranked their threat up with Xenos and Chaos in his last moments?

I know Psykers are mutants, but if they were the prime concern, why not specify them? What makes mutants (in general) as grave a threat as evil gods and genocidal aliens?

Because mutations are sometimes caused by chaos, and you never really know until it's too late. The Imperium isn't entirely rational, and besides, it's not the first time that someone has tried to wipe out a minority ethnicity due to perceived corruption and inferiority.

To clarify - I know a lot of mutants end up in the service of Chaos, but that's mainly due to being persecuted, and not having anywhere else to turn. If they were more accepted, they likely wouldn't, and those that would are already covered in the proscription against Heretics.

They're no different than renegade Space Marines in that regard, who invariably end up throwing their lot in with Chaos as they run out of options, despite not originally being followers when they broke from the Imperium.

I understand the Imperium has irrational reasons to hate minority groups, but my question is why was that particular minority afforded such importance at such a crucial time to be ranked as grave a threat as Xenos and Chaos in the Emperor's final breaths, when their main risk (heresy) was already covered?

Humanity is the pinnacle of life and the sole inheritors of the galaxy in the eyes of the Imperium, and any corruption or deviation from ideal "humanness" is considered an impure abomination. Mutants must be purged to maintain the pureness of humanity.

This is why even stable abhuman populations like Ogryns, Ratlings, and Squats are/were viewed with raised eyebrows by the more puritan sects of humanity. Some abhuman populations have fallen so far out of favor with the general populace because of their physical deviations that they are actively hunted down and purged (see: Beastmen).

It is a core tenant of the Imperial Creed that the corruption of the body mirrors the corruption of the soul. This certainly can be true. However, pollution, radiation, genetic tampering and warp exposure can all cause similar mutation. Distinguishing one from the other is the job of the God-Emperor, not humanity. The fact that mutation is immensely wide spread across thousands of worlds, and especially on hive and feral worlds, in massive numbers, it is no surprise that the Inquisition sees them as requiring control and extermination.

Hierophant wrote:
To clarify - I know a lot of mutants end up in the service of Chaos, but that's mainly due to being persecuted, and not having anywhere else to turn. If they were more accepted, they likely wouldn't, and those that would are already covered in the proscription against Heretics.

They're no different than renegade Space Marines in that regard, who invariably end up throwing their lot in with Chaos as they run out of options, despite not originally being followers when they broke from the Imperium.

I understand the Imperium has irrational reasons to hate minority groups, but my question is why was that particular minority afforded such importance at such a crucial time to be ranked as grave a threat as Xenos and Chaos in the Emperor's final breaths, when their main risk (heresy) was already covered?

It isn't that a lot of mutants end up in the service of Chaos, but rather that a lot of mutants are caused by Chaos, and therefore already serve them even if unknowingly.

Maintaining racial purity and all that. Pretty standard stuff for a fascist totalitarian government. Heretics and Aliens are a clear and present danger to humanity, whereas mutants are more of an oppressed underclass. I always interpreted it as being a reflection of the attitudes irrationality and hatefulness within the Imperium.

Heretics and Aliens are a clear and present danger to humanity, whereas mutants are more of an oppressed underclass. I always interpreted it as being a reflection of the attitudes irrationality and hatefulness within the Imperium.

Mutants are not far from the threats your talking about. As they are often caused by Chaos or, almost as dangerous, xenos infections like Genestealer hosts, it is better to kill them all without distinction than running a risk of losing whole sectors. Imperium may be inhabited by superstition and hatefulness, it is above all a very pragmatic bureaucracy which does not have the time to discuss whether or not a given strain of Mutants is a danger. It is very rational IMO.

Mutation without is a sure sign of Corruption within.

Fascism is a specific type of totalitarianism. Other breeds of totalitarians have tried to exterminate minorities as aberrations or impure. So have authoritarian governments, bureaucratic regimes, military juntas and republics.

It's certainly true that totalitarians resort to it more quickly than others. In the name of maintaining order and enforcing the party line, ethnic purity or whatever it's easier for them to justify eliminating the 'other'. But that kind of 'cleansing' has long been a feature of human regimes of every stripe.

The kind of hate spewed on the internet should tell you just how much people hate, fear and mistrust 'not like us', and how quickly civility breaks down in the face of the smallest provocation or perceived threat.

This is not an indictment of the internet. The web is simply a largely unregulated look into the cesspool of human nature. GW just takes the demons within us to their illogical extreme.

My two cents.

I think people are missing my point. I know why the Imperium hates Mutants. That's not difficult to understand why.

My question is, why did the Emperor stress them as such a grave threat in his dying breath? What event triggered this level of concern, that he mentioned them in the same company as Xenos (who he'd launched a galaxy spanning, centuries long, genocidal crusade against) and Heresy (which has just ruined large portions of his empire, killed possibly trillions, and imprisoned him in a near-death state)?

Why are mutants ranked specifically as such a threat as to be mentioned in that company when founding the Inquisition? Yes, some turn to Chaos, but that's covered under Heresy already (and is partially due to their persecution, so is a chicken-egg situation).

To my mind, there's only two possible answers:
1) Some event in the fluff justifies this (and if so, what is it?)
2) No event in the fluff justifies this, hence it's bad writing.

Remember, Mutants used to be accepted in the Imperium in the older days. That changed, and this event seems to be a specific turning point. The only reference I can find is the 40k wiki mentions, unsourced, that Mutants fought mainly for the Traitor's side during the Heresy, so I'm mainly asking I guess as to where this information comes from, and why did they choose that side? Were they more susceptible to Chaos? Or did Horus promise them more equitable treatment? (remember, not all Traitors knew about Chaos, and a lot sided with Horus due to reasonable issues they had with the staus quo)

Has the fluff about Beastmen serving in the Guard definitively been retconned? Because I have a handful of Ungor heads on my Guardsmen...

I'm not sure. I think Rogue Trader fluff stated Mutants served in the Imperial Guard just fine (with some caveats).

Some fluff states they served during the Crusade, but the tide turned against them after the Heresy over the years due to the development of the Imperial Cult, and they were eventually outlawed.

This is why I think the third set of fluff about the Emperor being the one to proscribe them is just bad writing, borne of confused continuity, as he had always previously been portrayed as pragmatic towards Mutants during the Crusade, and to slip the line in during his instructions regarding the Inquisiton, and putting them up there with Xenos and Choas gives them an undue prominence that the story hasn't really justified.

The real reason is simply Beastmen got Squatted in the drive to differentiate 40k from WFB, and the timeline of their expulsion from the Imperium kept getting slid back from current, to sometime post-Heresy, to during the Heresy, but without any real story to back it up.

Isn't it that humanity mutating into a fully psychic race is actually the biggest threat to its survival?
Mutants include psykers, which are a pretty big threat to the Imperium if they don't learn to control their power.

Hierophant wrote:

I understand the Imperium has irrational reasons to hate minority groups, but my question is why was that particular minority afforded such importance at such a crucial time to be ranked as grave a threat as Xenos and Chaos in the Emperor's final breaths, when their main risk (heresy) was already covered?

Considering that the only minorities in 40k are females and mutants, and females are necessary for the human species to continue to exist, it actually kind of makes sense.

In response to OP: The Emperor's dying breaths were for the creation of the Inquisition to defend against Chaos, I highly doubt that mutants even became an issue until long afterwards, and I doubt that their creation had anything to do with xenos until shortly afterwards and they realized "hey, we get more power if we murder people who use xeno-tech and Chaos Cultists". I've read the Inquisition Codex, there was no mention of the Emperor decreeing that his holy inquisition must hunt aliens, chaos, and mutants, though it has been a while and I may have forgotten.

Edit: In conclusion, mutants came long after the Emperor's version of the Inquisition was a thing of the past and the Imperial Cult took over.

 Lord Corellia wrote:
Has the fluff about Beastmen serving in the Guard definitively been retconned? Because I have a handful of Ungor heads on my Guardsmen...

Check out the fluff section of your brb triple pack.

It goes into different abhumans and their different level of authorisation.

Beastmen are essentially straddling the divide been authorised and unauthorised, with their certification moving towards unauthorised (it's almost as if the imperium is realising they aren't 'real' abhumans, but a common type of chaos mutant ).

If I remember correctly they are allowed to exist, but they aren't allowed to be transported between planets. But, of course, in the Imperium of Man rules are always second fiddle to practicality and the whims of those in power.

As a response to the OP, many top secret imperial reports sent from warzones to Malcador and the Emp' during the Horus Horus were mentioning the presence of mutations among the ranks of the Traitors. In a HH book, cant remember which, rememberances of early Noise and Plague Marines are represented and they obviously enter in the category of mutants. The Emperor certainly understood that mutation was one of the most visible manifestation of Chaos corruption, which could have triggered his decision to put them under the juridicition of the Inquisition.

 RazgrizOne wrote:
As a response to the OP, many top secret imperial reports sent from warzones to Malcador and the Emp' during the Horus Horus were mentioning the presence of mutations among the ranks of the Traitors. In a HH book, cant remember which, rememberances of early Noise and Plague Marines are represented and they obviously enter in the category of mutants. The Emperor certainly understood that mutation was one of the most visible manifestation of Chaos corruption, which could have triggered his decision to put them under the juridicition of the Inquisition.

Thanks! That's the kind of information I'm mainly looking for. Why the change from accepted to proscribed was made, and why the Emperor made it himself at the end of the Heresy.

Linking Mutants and Chaos for the first time during that period makes sense. Without that link, it kind of comes out of nowhere.

Even then, it is largely unfair. Chaos mutates people, but people mutated due to other reasons (radiation, environement, etc) aren't really any more susceptible to Chaos unless the Imperium persecutes them and leaves them with nowhere else to turn, which is the same thing that happens with normal citizens and even Space Marines.

A distinction should have been struck between the Mutant and the Mutated, but I guess that's a hard distinction to prove, and what is the Imperium if not an organisation that uses a hammer instead of a scalpel?

Here you got the picture, HH Book Two "Massacre", p.223.

Innocence proves nothing.

Except that the Emperor has nothing to do with the Inquisition. It was founded after he was already enthroned and Malcador was dead. In reality, it was most likely the Imperial Cult that would make the proclamation of mutation=heresy. Either that or the hatred of mutants is something far far older than the Imperium, considering there was plenty of mutation to go around during the Age of Strife.

As for it being unfair, there are gross inequalities in our own world, and many of those inequalities are thousands of times more pronounced in 40k. Racism and fear of the unknown are no exception, especially when there's at least a decent chance that those fears and hatreds are warranted.

Except that the Emperor has nothing to do with the Inquisition

Maybe you should read some articles on 40k wikia/Lexicanum about the GK and the Inquisition. Even better, respective codexes of these armies.

The Knights Errant are not the Inquisition. Nor are they the Grey Knights. Whatever the Emperor wanted to put in place went to hell the moment he was enthroned.

Page 9 of the Inquisition Codex, IPAD Edition, 2013 :

"What almost all the legends agree on, however, is that the Inquisition was founded by Malcador the Sigilite at the Emperor’s instruction. As the story goes, in the final days of the Horus Heresy, Malcador brought four men and women before the Emperor, individuals of unblemished loyalty, determination and strength of mind, who would serve him well in the years to come."

^ That.

The reason the Inquisition wields as much power as it does is because the Emperor, or the Voice of the Emperor (Malcador, who spoke with his authority), gave them the remit to go anywhere, do anything, command anyone, in their pursuit of purity and their persecution of the heretic and the xeno.

There's no writ by the High Lords or quibble by a Primarch that can overrule the Word of the Emperor.

 Psienesis wrote:
^ That.

The reason the Inquisition wields as much power as it does is because the Emperor, or the Voice of the Emperor (Malcador, who spoke with his authority), gave them the remit to go anywhere, do anything, command anyone, in their pursuit of purity and their persecution of the heretic and the xeno.

There's no writ by the High Lords or quibble by a Primarch that can overrule the Word of the Emperor.

Except for Guilliman who reversed the order on Librarians...

jareddm wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
^ That.

The reason the Inquisition wields as much power as it does is because the Emperor, or the Voice of the Emperor (Malcador, who spoke with his authority), gave them the remit to go anywhere, do anything, command anyone, in their pursuit of purity and their persecution of the heretic and the xeno.

There's no writ by the High Lords or quibble by a Primarch that can overrule the Word of the Emperor.

Except for Guilliman who reversed the order on Librarians...

Yeah, virtually all of the Primarchs did that. The Lion didn't even follow it in the first place.

The ban on Librarians is a unique situation, as it was instigated due to the council of Nikaea, which was a consultation with the Primarchs and assorted marines, with a vote taken that influenced the Emperor's decision.

The Lion did obey the decree - he only changed his mind after a Librarian saved his life during a demonic attack. Gulliman likewise only changed his mind due to being attacked by demons summoned by the Word Bearers. Only Magnus has been briefed prior to the Heresy to the true nature of the warp (and was the first to disobey) Once the others gleaned the same information, their views evolved. Traitors, in order to exploit the warp, and loyalists, to defend against it.

Primarchs going against the decision could simply be considered simply revising their vote based on new information, while having certain votes invalidated, due to them now belonging to heretics. Essentially, the Heresy changed the votes of the loyal Primarchs (who were the only ones Nikaea applied to now) to virtually 100% in favour of Librarians, so reintroducing them wasn't really going against the Emperor, but pragmatically revising the vote of the council.

The Emperor too mainly banned Librarians as he wished to conceal the true nature of the warp. Now it was out in the open, his views will have been different too.

There's a big difference between going against a sole decree of the Emperor, and going against one he made in order to conceal something (that is now known) and in consultation with others, who have now changed their minds. The Heresy invalidated Nikaea on multiple levels.

Hierophant wrote:
The ban on Librarians is a unique situation, as it was instigated due to the council of Nikaea, which was a consultation with the Primarchs and assorted marines, with a vote taken that influenced the Emperor's decision.

The Lion did obey the decree - he only changed his mind after a Librarian saved his life during a demonic attack. Gulliman likewise only changed his mind due to being attacked by demons summoned by the Word Bearers. Only Magnus has been briefed prior to the Heresy to the true nature of the warp (and was the first to disobey) Once the others gleaned the same information, their views evolved. Traitors, in order to exploit the warp, and loyalists, to defend against it.

Primarchs going against the decision could simply be considered simply revising their vote based on new information, while having certain votes invalidated, due to them now belonging to heretics. Essentially, the Heresy changed the votes of the loyal Primarchs (who were the only ones Nikaea applied to now) to virtually 100% in favour of Librarians, so reintroducing them wasn't really going against the Emperor, but pragmatically revising the vote of the council.

The Emperor too mainly banned Librarians as he wished to conceal the true nature of the warp. Now it was out in the open, his views will have been different too.

There's a big difference between going against a sole decree of the Emperor, and going against one he made in order to conceal something (that is now known) and in consultation with others, who have now changed their minds. The Heresy invalidated Nikaea on multiple levels.

Have you read any of the Dark Angels HH novels? Both Fallen Angels and Descent of Angels have the Lion using Librarians, even after the Edict of Nikaea.

I agreed that he did break the edict - but only in response to being attacked by demons, as detailed in the HH anthology The Primarchs.

There's three things at play here;
1) Nikaea was a semi-democratic process, where the arguments and votes of Primarchs and marines had weight. If the loyalists votes were changed by circumstance, then it isn't really defiance.
2) The Emperor's prohibition of Librarians was mainly to conceal the true nature of the Warp from the Primarchs. At that point, only Magnus was aware. After being attacked by demons, that reasoning was no longer valid.
3) The Lion changed his mind only after a Librarian saved him from certain death. His reasoning was that by not using Librarians, he was risking his life, and his chapter's, and therefore putting the Imperium (and the Emperor) at risk, and if his oath to defend the Imperium was mutually exclusive to his oath to not use Librarians, then he would pick the latter of two evils and face the consequences later.

At no point was it something he chose to do lightly, and only did so as he believed it was something that would be in accordance with the Emperor's will.