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Made in gr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




As the title says, what are the advantages of the psilencer?
It seems the most useless of all the weapons. Any reason to pay the pts for it instead of a psycannon?
   
Made in au
Crushing Clawed Fiend






spartiatis wrote:
As the title says, what are the advantages of the psilencer?
It seems the most useless of all the weapons. Any reason to pay the pts for it instead of a psycannon?


Psilencer is by far the best weapon option for the Dreadnight.
12 shots with force is amazing.

It'd be a shame to get blood all over my nice new outfit...

--------------Harlequins---------------
-------Dark Eldar Wych Cult--------
-----Eldar Craftworld Warhost----- 
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Would not say "best", but it has its perks.

Ran the numbers a while ago, its rather decent at MC kills, with the odds being:

Slightly over 18% to kill riptide/dreadknight.
T6Sv3 or T5Sv2 have a 36% to die.
T5Sv3 have a 60% chance to die.

Add the fact pure volume makes it decent at horde management, and you get a nice, solid, gun-able to deal with both sides of the spectrum, but not great VS stuff in the middle.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

Whilst the Heavy Psycannon can provide hurt to vehicles @ range or put our decent VoF to compliment your mini-torrent heavy heavy flamer.

Whilst you aren't forced to spend warp charges to activate force.

And you can still charge into melee to force down those big threats @ Str10, making the most out of the entire turn.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

The psilencer is good for having that chance at insta-killing MCs or characters, but it isn't reliable enough for my tastes, as you have successfully cast Force, get a bunch of hits, and get one wound through. I prefer the Psycannon for its usefulness against all targets.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

Razerous wrote:
Whilst the Heavy Psycannon can provide hurt to vehicles @ range or put our decent VoF to compliment your mini-torrent heavy heavy flamer.

Whilst you aren't forced to spend warp charges to activate force.

And you can still charge into melee to force down those big threats @ Str10, making the most out of the entire turn.

I have been using this combo with the Teleporter with great Effect.
The trick is picking your targets. Use it on Units and not MCs and models will melt away.
My first time taking it out I wracked up 9 VPs all by itself and not in a Maelstrom Mission either.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

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IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The psilencer is good for having that chance at insta-killing MCs or characters, but it isn't reliable enough for my tastes, as you have successfully cast Force, get a bunch of hits, and get one wound through. I prefer the Psycannon for its usefulness against all targets.

You do know that you can take both the Psycannon and the Psilencer, right?

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge




What's left of Cadia

I think most people prefer taking the incinerator as one of the weapons

TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant Colonel






this is one of those "all three choices are good but I can only take two" moments pretty much. depends on who you are playing which is "best"

If you play GK magnetize the weapons and change it around if you like.

 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The psilencer is good for having that chance at insta-killing MCs or characters, but it isn't reliable enough for my tastes, as you have successfully cast Force, get a bunch of hits, and get one wound through. I prefer the Psycannon for its usefulness against all targets.


I would run a dreadknight with one because it's amazing against certain matchups. For example I play covens and at a tournament drew GK first round lol. He had a gatling psilencer and it made my but pucker every time he shot it at my grotesques. It made me stick to ruins and not deepstrike like I normally may have. It has similar effects on MC's and has better odds at hitting FMC's and wounding demon princes on a 5+ with ID isn't bad at all.

Honestly the psi canon and flamer are better in concert with a sword, but I feel in a 3 DK list one with a psilencer and heavy psi canon would make a good back field fire support unit that keeps multi wound targets of your edge which can be annoying for certain lists.

   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:
The psilencer is good for having that chance at insta-killing MCs or characters, but it isn't reliable enough for my tastes, as you have successfully cast Force, get a bunch of hits, and get one wound through. I prefer the Psycannon for its usefulness against all targets.

You do know that you can take both the Psycannon and the Psilencer, right?

SJ


Yes, I am fully aware of that extraordinarily obvious fact, thank you, but my preference is for the Psycannon and Incinerator. I simply do not like the extremely luck-reliant nature of the Psilencer.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator





You must have a psycannon, always, since shooting better than str4 is hard for GKs to get. Between the incinerator and psilencer, saving points is my preferred option, meaning incinerator if I can afford it, or no second gun if I can buy something better elsewhere by skimping.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Dreadknights already have Force on their melee weapons and the Psilencer is mathematically not pleasing. The other two range weapons fulfill their functions really well in the first place. Ergo, you ignore the last one.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 BoomWolf wrote:
Would not say "best", but it has its perks.

Ran the numbers a while ago, its rather decent at MC kills, with the odds being:

Slightly over 18% to kill riptide/dreadknight.
T6Sv3 or T5Sv2 have a 36% to die.
T5Sv3 have a 60% chance to die.

Add the fact pure volume makes it decent at horde management, and you get a nice, solid, gun-able to deal with both sides of the spectrum, but not great VS stuff in the middle.


It's not good vs Spess Mahreens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Anpu42 wrote:
Razerous wrote:
Whilst the Heavy Psycannon can provide hurt to vehicles @ range or put our decent VoF to compliment your mini-torrent heavy heavy flamer.

Whilst you aren't forced to spend warp charges to activate force.

And you can still charge into melee to force down those big threats @ Str10, making the most out of the entire turn.

I have been using this combo with the Teleporter with great Effect.
The trick is picking your targets. Use it on Units and not MCs and models will melt away.
My first time taking it out I wracked up 9 VPs all by itself and not in a Maelstrom Mission either.


Yeah.... I don't let this happen, for this exact reason.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 23:34:30


 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dreadknights already have Force on their melee weapons and the Psilencer is mathematically not pleasing. The other two range weapons fulfill their functions really well in the first place. Ergo, you ignore the last one.


Actually the stock power fists do not have force anymore, in order to force out MC's you need to buy the hammer or sword. They now simply have generic power fists.

   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Razerous wrote:
Whilst the Heavy Psycannon can provide hurt to vehicles @ range or put our decent VoF to compliment your mini-torrent heavy heavy flamer.

Whilst you aren't forced to spend warp charges to activate force.

And you can still charge into melee to force down those big threats @ Str10, making the most out of the entire turn.

I have been using this combo with the Teleporter with great Effect.
The trick is picking your targets. Use it on Units and not MCs and models will melt away.
My first time taking it out I wracked up 9 VPs all by itself and not in a Maelstrom Mission either.


Yeah.... I don't let this happen, for this exact reason.

To be honest, I did not plan it. My plan was just to hang around the edges of the table and pick off targets. Then it happened.
Turn-0: A spore mine scatters into my DreadKight and pulls off a wound.
Turn-1: Some Genestealers Infiltrated close and I just shot and torched them.
Turn-2: I found myself near some Warriors so I shot them up and Assaulted them. I fished them off on his Assault Phase.
Turn-3: After Consolidation I found myself close to a second set of Warriors so I Shot them up and assaulted them and finished them off in His Assault Phase once more.
Turn-4: I assaulted the Tervegaunt Killing it with some incredible Rolls and its Gaunts Roll and ran away. His Assault Phase Some more Gaunts Assaulted me and I caught them in a sweeping Advance.
Turn-5: I Assaulted another group of Genestealers and lost my Second Wound. Finished them off one his Assault Phase.
Turn-6: I assault...I forget what, it was a big bug and killed it off.

My opponent said aftwards he had been tabled on Turn one and felt like he had not been beaten this bad.

My Army ended up with an 11 to 2 Victory and the Dreadknight was responsible for 9 of them.


Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





A neat trick with the psilencer/heavy psilencer is rolling for divination on one of your librarians/captains and fishing for Misfortune for the rending effect. Cast it on one of those nasty big things you don't like and give your NDK re-rolls to hit with prescience & force and I'd say you have a pretty decent chance at taking out just about any thing non-vehicle. It takes a bit of work and little luck but with 12 shots you should manage a couple sixes?

I don't usually take three NDKs but my third one is kitted out with a Psycannon/Psilencer and I took him against Space Wolves, he did really well against a Thunderwolf Cavalry star.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/09 02:18:11


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Red Corsair wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dreadknights already have Force on their melee weapons and the Psilencer is mathematically not pleasing. The other two range weapons fulfill their functions really well in the first place. Ergo, you ignore the last one.


Actually the stock power fists do not have force anymore, in order to force out MC's you need to buy the hammer or sword. They now simply have generic power fists.

I thought we were paying for the Sword anyway for a Master Crafted weapon. Good call on the fists not being Force though as I didn't notice that.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge





Commoragh (closer to the bottom)

If you want to really use it to the max effect, try getting misfortune and shoot something that has misfortune on it... Will wreck and MC/GMC. I was able to use it to chop away wounds on a WK. Such a wonderful moment.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






The heavy incinerator is too good not you use IMO. Ignore cover str6 auto hits are PRETTY good.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps




Phoenix, AZ, USA

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

That is until a Riptide goes poof on a single failed armor save. No one is saying the Heavy Psilencer is the ultimate weapon. What we are saying is that it is useful enough to be the second weapon on your second NDK.

SJ

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 jeffersonian000 wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

That is until a Riptide goes poof on a single failed armor save. No one is saying the Heavy Psilencer is the ultimate weapon. What we are saying is that it is useful enough to be the second weapon on your second NDK.

SJ

It's possible to kill the riptide? Yes, but pretty unlikely. Will a heavy incernator remove a 70% of a firewarriors squad or wipe an entire squad of pathfinders? Every time.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





 jeffersonian000 wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

That is until a Riptide goes poof on a single failed armor save. No one is saying the Heavy Psilencer is the ultimate weapon. What we are saying is that it is useful enough to be the second weapon on your second NDK.

SJ


Someone mathhammer that, its probably like a 0.1% chance

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WrentheFaceless wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

That is until a Riptide goes poof on a single failed armor save. No one is saying the Heavy Psilencer is the ultimate weapon. What we are saying is that it is useful enough to be the second weapon on your second NDK.

SJ


Someone mathhammer that, its probably like a 0.1% chance

12 shots at BS4 (2/3) * 6+ to wound then a 2+ armor save

Plugging in all the variables into a binomial calculator gives a 20% of doing any wounds to a Riptide. Meaning 80% of the time it will do nothing
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






WrentheFaceless wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

That is until a Riptide goes poof on a single failed armor save. No one is saying the Heavy Psilencer is the ultimate weapon. What we are saying is that it is useful enough to be the second weapon on your second NDK.

SJ


Someone mathhammer that, its probably like a 0.1% chance

Its not that bad but odds are it's only going to have to make 1 save. 2+ then 5FNP. Thats a 10.5% chance at a kill. If hes gotta make 2 saves its 21% chance. Still is still not that great.
You also gotta get force up which is gonna requier at least 2 dice which results in a 75% chance of activating.
This drops your chances down to having a 21% chance only 75% of the time if you roll 2 dice for force! THESE ARE NOT GOOD ODDS. I do like it for shooting TWC though but the Incinerator isn't bad on them ether.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





Main point being its not reliable to kill a Riptide or any multi wound value of worth

Sure itll mow down multi wound low toughness daemons, but thats about it

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Rampaging Carnifex





Fredericksburg, Virginia

 Xenomancers wrote:

Its not that bad but odds are it's only going to have to make 1 save. 2+ then 5FNP. Thats a 10.5% chance at a kill. If hes gotta make 2 saves its 21% chance. Still is still not that great.
You also gotta get force up which is gonna requier at least 2 dice which results in a 75% chance of activating.
This drops your chances down to having a 21% chance only 75% of the time if you roll 2 dice for force! THESE ARE NOT GOOD ODDS. I do like it for shooting TWC though but the Incinerator isn't bad on them ether.


Force also ignores FNP.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
 jeffersonian000 wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Psilencier is by far the worst ranged weapon on a DK

Low Str, no ap, and casting force isnt a guarantee, the amount of shots doesnt make up for it

Use the Psycannon or Flamer

That is until a Riptide goes poof on a single failed armor save. No one is saying the Heavy Psilencer is the ultimate weapon. What we are saying is that it is useful enough to be the second weapon on your second NDK.

SJ


Someone mathhammer that, its probably like a 0.1% chance

Its not that bad but odds are it's only going to have to make 1 save. 2+ then 5FNP. Thats a 10.5% chance at a kill. If hes gotta make 2 saves its 21% chance. Still is still not that great.
You also gotta get force up which is gonna requier at least 2 dice which results in a 75% chance of activating.
This drops your chances down to having a 21% chance only 75% of the time if you roll 2 dice for force! THESE ARE NOT GOOD ODDS. I do like it for shooting TWC though but the Incinerator isn't bad on them ether.


Can't FNP against force but you also have to consider the chance to actually cast force which is not 100% unless you start risking perils. Still a 22% chance to kill if you have force on and on 3 dice you have a 12.5% chance to fail to cast force. That's 19% chance to get force (ignoring any deny attempts) and shoot to get a wound vs a riptide. Psycannon doesn't even have that much of a chance to get past the riptide's defense so punching it to death is clearly the better option.

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I would think the Psycannon would have a higher chance, wounding on 3's, ap 2 on 6s

But yea, best way for a DK to take out a Riptide is to punch it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/10 20:25:52


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