The continuing story of Julian Assange...Wikileaks.

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**Gibbsey**

halonachos wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:My question is do you not agree that their may be cases where internal affairs may not want/cant bring a person to justice for comitting a crime, or a serious enought breach of human rights. And in such cases that the information should be released? It is irrelevant if it makes the country look bad, what matters is making sure the governments conduct is appropriate and does not violate any of our right, or anyone elses?

Also

Human rights don't include the right to information, speech is included there somewhere, but not information.

As to the quoted question, this is exactly what CIPA covers. Governments may have classified information that pertains to a murder trial and if so the courts will have to prove that the classified information is necessary for the trial. If it is necessary then it is shared with the legal personnel and only the necessary legal personnel(judge, ombudsman, etc) and not to the public. Similar to the HIPAA act that allows the release of some medical information(such as a potential epidemic) but prevents the release of most of the information.

An example would be this: John Doe comes to the emergency room suffering from a condition caused by taking cocaine, John Doe came on his own with no police officers. Well the cool thing is, the hospital personnel cannot call the police to tell them that a person has taken cocaine nor can the police break into the hospital and arrest the man. If the police bring the man to the ER then they already know and have probably arrested him(a side note, if your thinking about doing cocaine keep in mind that your heart rate will go up, your blood pressure goes down, and you get a catheter put into your urethra if you have a bad reaction. )

So yes, there are times when classification is removed for a court trial but the information is not released to the public only to the necessary people.

I see what your getting at. In this case civilians have died rightly or wrongly, Wikileaks seem to beleive that the people should have a right (Privilage, there is no such thing as rights (univeral ones anyway)

) to know who killed them, and while the bombings wre probebly justified (amazingly terrorists live with their families and going in on the ground would of been impractical and more people could of died) to say that the government has a right to lie to its people about something to me (and aparently wikileaks) is wrong.

Oh if you want to see what im talking about when i say univeral rights do not exist search for george carlin on rights, absolutely hilarious. His no rights/ unlimited rights argument is good "i beleive i have unlimited rights, that means i can do anything i want. But, if i do something you dont like, you have the right to kill me. Your not going to find a fairer deal than that"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Thats bs. He's redacting information that is illegally obtained and illegal to read.

He's already stated his motives and they are some knight's they are to harm the US. Take him out.

I dont really think that would help US foreign policy though....

This is an interesting talk on the previous documents:
http://journalism.about.com/od/ethicsprofessionalism/a/Wikileaks-The-Afghanistan-War-Documents-And-Journalism-Ethics.htm

Wikileaks thinks of its self as a news organization/ whistle blowing site, there are certain protection for Journalists where classified documents can be used even if they were illegally obtained.

Wikileaks could be charged if it was releasing agents names, or if its actions were to cause serious damage.

I don't care if they think they are space pope, they gave up military secrets. They are spies. СМЕРть Шпионам

Although "No single US law makes it a crime specifically to disclose classified government documents"

Измотанный, ваше веселое

**Frazzled**

You mean other than the Espionage act right?

**Gibbsey**

Frazzled wrote:You mean other than the Espionage act right?

Thats the one where they have to prove he meant to damage the US, and so far they are saying its unlikely they can prove that

**Frazzled**

Gibbsey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:You mean other than the Espionage act right?

Thats the one where they have to prove he meant to damage the US, and so far they are saying its unlikely they can prove that

Did you know this would harm the US?
Yes
Sweeps terminate him!

**Gibbsey**

Frazzled wrote:
Gibbsey wrote:
Frazzled wrote:You mean other than the Espionage act right?

Thats the one where they have to prove he meant to damage the US, and so far they are saying its unlikely they can prove that

Did you know this would harm the US?
Yes
Sweeps terminate him!

Frazzled your with team 1

**Frazzled**

The honor, is to serve.

**halonachos**

Okay, Michael Moore is supporting Assange now. Hopefully we can get two birds with one stone?

**Frazzled**

He's out on bail. Unleash the flying monkey troops!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESI19h4wDo

**efarrer**

halonachos wrote:Okay, Michael Moore is supporting Assange now. Hopefully we can get two birds with one stone?

So where is your outrage at a CIA opperative and the entire ring being unmasked for partisan gain against the agent's spouse.

Why are you not crying for the charges to brought against the villains who exposed an actual spy ring operated by your nation.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131682/Unclassified-Report-Valerie-Plame-WAS-covert-when-they-outed-her

**Ahtman**

efarrer wrote:
halonachos wrote:Okay, Michael Moore is supporting Assange now. Hopefully we can get two birds with one stone?

So where is your outrage at a CIA opperative and the entire ring being unmasked for partisan gain against the agent's spouse.

Why are you not crying for the charges to brought against the villains who exposed an actual spy ring operated by your nation.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131682/Unclassified-Report-Valerie-Plame-WAS-covert-when-they-outed-her

What are you talking about, there was a huge uproar. Politicians had to appear before judges, headlines were written, Sean Penn made a movie, ect ect

**Gibbsey**

Ahtman wrote:
efarrer wrote:
halonachos wrote:Okay, Michael Moore is supporting Assange now. Hopefully we can get two birds with one stone?

So where is your outrage at a CIA opperative and the entire ring being unmasked for partisan gain against the agent's spouse.

Why are you not crying for the charges to brought against the villains who exposed an actual spy ring operated by your nation.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131682/Unclassified-Report-Valerie-Plame-WAS-covert-when-they-outed-her

What are you talking about, there was a huge uproar. Politicians had to appear before judges, headlines were written, Sean Penn made a movie, ect ect

jury felt bad for they guy they prosecuted because they beleive he was the fall guy.....

**loki old fart**

He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

**WarOne**

loki old fart wrote:He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

So you have a known foreign-born terrorist walking the streets in your country. Or perhaps a martyred revolutionary now free. Either way,

How does it feel?

**loki old fart**

WarOne wrote:
loki old fart wrote:He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

So you have a known foreign-born terrorist walking the streets in your country. Or perhaps a martyred revolutionary now free. Either way,

How does it feel?

Feels same as ever

**Gibbsey**

WarOne wrote:
loki old fart wrote:He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

So you have a known foreign-born terrorist walking the streets in your country. Or perhaps a martyred revolutionary now free. Either way,

How does it feel?

Glad they're not in america? a little too much right wing crazyness going on here

**Kilkrazy**

WarOne wrote:
loki old fart wrote:He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

So you have a known foreign-born terrorist walking the streets in your country. Or perhaps a martyred revolutionary now free. Either way,

How does it feel?

It feels... good.

**Ahtman**

Kilkrazy wrote:
WarOne wrote:
loki old fart wrote:He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

So you have a known foreign-born terrorist walking the streets in your country. Or perhaps a martyred revolutionary now free. Either way,

How does it feel?

It feels... good.

**hemingway**

Frazzled wrote: СМЕРть Шпионам

I don't know what this means, but if it is "smiert spionem", we are pals for life.

You hear me? PALS FOR LIFE

**Gibbsey**

hemingway wrote:
Frazzled wrote: СМЕРть Шпионам

I don't know what this means, but if it is "smiert spionem", we are pals for life.

You hear me? PALS FOR LIFE

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%D0%A1%D0%9C%D0%95%D0%A0%D1%82%D1%8C+%D0%A8%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BC

**Peter Wiggin**

Destrado wrote:
Peter Wiggin wrote:Hi, that was me....at like page 3 I think.

After reading MANY articles and looking up past case information I think it really is just a strange coincidence....and the "ties" that the girl has to the CIA are laughable at best. I'm a conspiracy believer, but at least look at the facts before screaming about the Tri Lateral Commision. lol

Lol @ being told to check the facts by you, given I've read almost all your posts since the beggining of the thread...

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/

http://my.firedoglake.com/kirkmurphy/2010/12/04/assanges-chief-accuser-has-her-own-history-with-us-funded-anti-castro-groups-one-of-which-has-cia-ties/

Please, do share those articles. The ties might be laughable like you say... yet there she was, and funnily enough, it happened with her. After she consented. But then said she retracted. The case was filed, and then reopened. He's given an international arrest warrant. And you call yourself a conspiracy believer

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66P35Y20100726

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10746832 (this isn't wiki related, but still an interesting read)

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2010/07/wikileaks-and-the-war.html

I'd say most posters here only care about the image of their country given what's hot in the news. And absolutely love the profissional profile (and absolutely impartial, of course) assesment that's been made of Assange, as well as the well-thought punishment for whatever crimes he might've commited.

TLDR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, I think its interesting how many folks in America honestly don't seem to care about this at all. Most of the folks I talk to on a daily basis are simply concerned with feeding their family and paying the bills. Then again, to go by the internet comments folks in America want to shoot him in the balls. Funny how that works.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:
WarOne wrote:
loki old fart wrote:He's out on bail.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12005930

So you have a known foreign-born terrorist walking the streets in your country. Or perhaps a martyred revolutionary now free. Either way,

How does it feel?

It feels... good.

COSIGNED!!!

**Frazzled**

Sounds like its the perfect time for a 185 grain love letter.

**loki old fart**

One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

**ShumaGorath**

loki old fart wrote:One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

Lied too about what? The cable leaks have yet to really show anything that the government wasn't already pretty straight foreword about. Hell, you guys should be more annoyed about a lying government then us considering what's been released so far.

**Frazzled**

loki old fart wrote:One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

I don't give a flip about the politicians. I care greatly about the massive number of military secrets he put out. That earns him the 185 grain salute.

**Emperors Faithful**

Frazzled wrote:
loki old fart wrote:One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

I don't give a flip about the politicians. I care greatly about the massive number of military secrets he put out. That earns him the 185 grain salute.

**loki old fart**

ShumaGorath wrote:
loki old fart wrote:One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

Lied too about what? The cable leaks have yet to really show anything that the government wasn't already pretty straight foreword about. Hell, you guys should be more annoyed about a lying government then us considering what's been released so far.

Nah we always get lied to

you can tell when a politicians lying, there lips move

**Emperors Faithful**

loki old fart wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
loki old fart wrote:One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

Lied too about what? The cable leaks have yet to really show anything that the government wasn't already pretty straight foreword about. Hell, you guys should be more annoyed about a lying government then us considering what's been released so far.

Nah we always get lied to
you can tell when a politicians lying, there lips move

>Insert 'mouth full' joke here<

**hemingway**

Gibbsey wrote:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%D0%A1%D0%9C%D0%95%D0%A0%D1%82%D1%8C+%D0%A8%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BC

obviously the correct response was to take a rhetorical comment literally and respond with a sarcastic link. C- for effort, D for originality, but your pedantry scores are off the charts!

**dogma**

Frazzled wrote:
I don't give a flip about the politicians. I care greatly about the massive number of military secrets he put out. That earns him the 185 grain salute.

What, you're not going to criticize the military men that leaked the secrets to WikiLeaks?

No, of course not, military people are inviolate.

What a joke.

If you want to throw around "treason" and "espionage" at least do it with consistency.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:
So using an example and asking a rhetorical question is "deflection"?
Huh. Interesting.

...Yes? Where did you study debate?

Kanluwen wrote:
Not really. It just seems you're purposely being obtuse and trying to find deflection where there is none.

Well, honestly, I'm being obtuse because my real criticism would extend beyond forum rules.

I don't have very much respect for anything that you have to say.

Kanluwen wrote:
It is when you're accepting money from private companies that are bidding for jobs.

That's a problem? Maybe those companies are the best contractors. Why not accept their money? To convince the idiot plebes?

Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not. I'm saying that corruption is corruption, and it's actually not that hard to find it when you're looking.

No, that's exactly what you're saying. You just said it again. Equating corruption in politics to corruption in police is to equate police and politics.

Kanluwen wrote:
I've answered three different times. There's no hesitation. It didn't weaken my position either.

No, you think that you've answered it, but you haven't. This is an example of why I have no respect for you.

**Frazzled**

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
loki old fart wrote:One thing that makes me laugh, is that most american posters seem more upset, that there diplomats look bad/stupid
Than that they get lied to on a daily basis

I don't give a flip about the politicians. I care greatly about the massive number of military secrets he put out. That earns him the 185 grain salute.

NO.