Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let's play AdLib!

13th Company Slayers are members of a strange sub-cult of Space Wolf society. They seek death in combat in order to atone for getting lost in the Warp. Although they seek death, 13th Company are incapable of deliberately fighting to lose, and so always enter the fray to win hence GW awesome rules. Therefore Slayers spend as much time as possible improving their warrior skills by using whatever is on hand (rocks, paper, scissors).

13th Company Slayers deliberately seek uneven combat, for example by entering a McDonalds stronghold alone. Tau are considered the ideal opponents, as the 13th Company death is almost assured, which is why GW modeled them this way. Their way of life weeds out all but the toughest and most determined warriors, so that those 13th Company who survive for any period time are invariably exceptionally tough, violent, and look a lot like Hugh Jackman.

As a mark of their Oath, all 13th Company roid out of their power armor and take after the killer rabbit. Because that's what the Warp does.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

Heresy has its price.

 Warboss85 wrote:

And someone asked for the price for the wulfen box. Its 42€

too much for those models

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:
Wolves will get special formations based on the great companies, warlord traits, psychic powers and relics.

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

And yet Loyalist players will argue that this is perfectly "fluffy" because "the Legions no longer exist 'cause yur Warbands - durp!"

Because apparently every single Iron Warrior for example has suddenly forgotten their siege skills, while Night Lords decided to just give up on their whole 'be very afraid!' murder skills, or Word Bearers suddenly calmed the feth down, etc... the second they all entered the Eye.

Has anyone noticed that :

the thunder hammer that the wulfen get as wargear is not the helfrost one listed in the wargear page with all the other wulfen weapons. Typo maybe??

Can anyone confirm, do the Wulfen have frag and krak grenades?

$1 stealth increase on the Space wolf datacards!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:
Wolves will get special formations based on the great companies, warlord traits, psychic powers and relics.

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

And yet Loyalist players will argue that this is perfectly "fluffy" because "the Legions no longer exist 'cause yur Warbands - durp!"

Because apparently every single Iron Warrior for example has suddenly forgotten their siege skills, while Night Lords decided to just give up on their whole 'be very afraid!' murder skills, or Word Bearers suddenly calmed the feth down, etc... the second they all entered the Eye.

Hey, now we do get Marks and snipe-able icons....that we have to pay for. So that's something, right? Those Wulfen buffs sure are nice, to bad a Dark Apostle or Possesed can't buff Chaos marines like that.

I have a problem with any members of the 13th company still being alive. They were meant to be a cautionary tale, about foolish bravado and dangers Chaos. So after decades of GW telling us the Warp and the Eye of Terror are lethal even to CSM. Where entire Imperial crusades including multiple space marine chapters and entire Ork Waaarghs have vanished with no survivors. It seems Chaos is no worse than walking through the bad part of town. I give the Legion of the Damned a pass as they didn't exactly survive the experience.

 kodos wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:

And someone asked for the price for the wulfen box. Its 42€

too much for those models

Yeah, I like all but he leader but I agree. When Wraithguard came out at €8 per model, that seemed about right for these quite big, 40mm elite models. Then €40 become the standard price for ANY unit sold in boxes of five models (Sternguard etc). Now it's €42 with some exceptions (the new AoS dwarfs in five-man boxes are €33).

sturguard wrote:
Can anyone confirm, do the Wulfen have frag and krak grenades?

they don't have, but can buy a grenade launcher

lonewolf81 wrote:
Has anyone noticed that :

the thunder hammer that the wulfen get as wargear is not the helfrost one listed in the wargear page with all the other wulfen weapons. Typo maybe??

And there is also a helfrost pistol

So new Wargear for Codex SW and not only for Wulfen


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mymearan wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:

And someone asked for the price for the wulfen box. Its 42€

too much for those models

Yeah, I like all but he leader but I agree. When Wraithguard came out at €8 per model, that seemed about right for these quite big, 40mm elite models. Then €40 become the standard price for ANY unit sold in boxes of five models (Sternguard etc). Now it's €42 with some exceptions (the new AoS dwarfs in five-man boxes are €33).

30-35 would be a price I would accept with enough bits in the box, but 42 and each weapon only once is too much.

I can get bits and models to convert 2 units for the same price

 Sersi wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:
Wolves will get special formations based on the great companies, warlord traits, psychic powers and relics.

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

And yet Loyalist players will argue that this is perfectly "fluffy" because "the Legions no longer exist 'cause yur Warbands - durp!"

Because apparently every single Iron Warrior for example has suddenly forgotten their siege skills, while Night Lords decided to just give up on their whole 'be very afraid!' murder skills, or Word Bearers suddenly calmed the feth down, etc... the second they all entered the Eye.

Hey, now we do get Marks and snipe-able icons....that we have to pay for. So that's something, right? Those Wulfen buffs sure are nice, to bad a Dark Apostle or Possesed can't buff Chaos marines like that.

I have a problem with any members of the 13th company still being alive. They were meant to be a cautionary tale, about foolish bravado and dangers Chaos. So after decades of GW telling us the Warp and the Eye of Terror are lethal even to CSM. Where entire Imperial crusades including multiple space marine chapters and entire Ork Waaarghs have vanished with no survivors. It seems Chaos is no worse than walking through the bad part of town. I give the Legion of the Damned a pass as they didn't exactly survive the experience.

Thats not necessarily true. A whole craftworld was stuck in the Warp- Altansar (for eons it is claimed) before Maugan Ra guided them out. I think GW has certainly reinforced the claim that the warp is bad and very dangerous, but there are plenty of examples of race/people etc that have survived the warp (but not its taint).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So wulfen are even more expensive if you add in the grenade launcher- so the big question is, can they be equipped with a grenade launcher and a Thunderhammer/Storm Shield?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Kodos- thanks so much for answering questions!

 Sersi wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:
Wolves will get special formations based on the great companies, warlord traits, psychic powers and relics.

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

And yet Loyalist players will argue that this is perfectly "fluffy" because "the Legions no longer exist 'cause yur Warbands - durp!"

Because apparently every single Iron Warrior for example has suddenly forgotten their siege skills, while Night Lords decided to just give up on their whole 'be very afraid!' murder skills, or Word Bearers suddenly calmed the feth down, etc... the second they all entered the Eye.

Hey, now we do get Marks and snipe-able icons....that we have to pay for. So that's something, right? Those Wulfen buffs sure are nice, to bad a Dark Apostle or Possesed can't buff Chaos marines like that.

I have a problem with any members of the 13th company still being alive. They were meant to be a cautionary tale, about foolish bravado and dangers Chaos. So after decades of GW telling us the Warp and the Eye of Terror are lethal even to CSM. Where entire Imperial crusades including multiple space marine chapters and entire Ork Waaarghs have vanished with no survivors. It seems Chaos is no worse than walking through the bad part of town. I give the Legion of the Damned a pass as they didn't exactly survive the experience.

It just irks me how SW players are so immediately writing off this new unit within literally minutes of seeing some of their new rules...

Seriously, if you were to put 'Possessed Marines' in place of Wulfen and cost these guys at even 35pts base, you'd see mass celebration in the streets from Chaos players, and inevitably, hear nothing but mass whining from Loyalist players about these guys being busted as feth.
But with SW players, all we're hearing is, "waaaaah! they're not TWC extreme - these guys are useless!"

And they can tooled up with 3++ saves & S10 attacks, or else take a bunch of Helfrost effect attacks... Run (with Fleet no less!) and charge in the same turn (something Slaanesh players have been crying for literally for years now!)

These new Wulfen look like a freaking amazing force multiplier! And yet, all we hear is ***** that SW's still suck because they're just codex Thunderwolves.

Interesting. Much of what I hear in this thread is whining from Chaos players not getting new Chaos stuff in a thread about the February 2016 release for a completely separate army, the Space Wolves.

Anyone writing off the new wulfen is hilarious to me(assuming str 5 base). They single handedly solve many problems I have faced in my list which is things like stomps from knights and the like just removing entire units. Now I have the ability to fight them and A. kill them before they strike or B. kill them at the same time.

Also we need to see how they interact with other units/IC's as well before we reach any sound conclusions on the rules but right now they are looking pretty solid. Models need a head swap and the rest I think I could live with.....humm now how to make a deathwatch version....also assuming they are either on 40mm or 50mm bases at the price point IMO

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:
Wolves will get special formations based on the great companies, warlord traits, psychic powers and relics.

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

I'd say something but I think just me quoting your message is enough to send my message across .
So I will instead post this emoticon: .

The wulfen rules are pure amazing, they are a bit too OP even and I would feel bad for fielding them against many armies

but the models are horrible because they are so individualistic. You cant put up a unit of 10 wulfens because you will instantly see 5 clone pairs basically

you can always convert yours with existent bits and the new ones from this new wulfen box

 aracersss wrote:
you can always convert yours with existent bits and the new ones from this new wulfen box

im not competing with my wolves, just fun-playing. So it would seem even worse to convert something just to make use of these abusable rules. ...like, I dont really like the models, but the rules are so damn good so these guys here, they have the OP rules

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Warboss85 wrote:
Wolves will get special formations based on the great companies, warlord traits, psychic powers and relics.

Meanwhile, Chaos doesn't even get Legions, let along rules for individual company-sized formations.

And yet Loyalist players will argue that this is perfectly "fluffy" because "the Legions no longer exist 'cause yur Warbands - durp!"

Because apparently every single Iron Warrior for example has suddenly forgotten their siege skills, while Night Lords decided to just give up on their whole 'be very afraid!' murder skills, or Word Bearers suddenly calmed the feth down, etc... the second they all entered the Eye.

Hey, now we do get Marks and snipe-able icons....that we have to pay for. So that's something, right? Those Wulfen buffs sure are nice, to bad a Dark Apostle or Possesed can't buff Chaos marines like that.

I have a problem with any members of the 13th company still being alive. They were meant to be a cautionary tale, about foolish bravado and dangers Chaos. So after decades of GW telling us the Warp and the Eye of Terror are lethal even to CSM. Where entire Imperial crusades including multiple space marine chapters and entire Ork Waaarghs have vanished with no survivors. It seems Chaos is no worse than walking through the bad part of town. I give the Legion of the Damned a pass as they didn't exactly survive the experience.

It just irks me how SW players are so immediately writing off this new unit within literally minutes of seeing some of their new rules...

Seriously, if you were to put 'Possessed Marines' in place of Wulfen and cost these guys at even 35pts base, you'd see mass celebration in the streets from Chaos players, and inevitably, hear nothing but mass whining from Loyalist players about these guys being busted as feth.
But with SW players, all we're hearing is, "waaaaah! they're not TWC extreme - these guys are useless!"

And they can tooled up with 3++ saves & S10 attacks, or else take a bunch of Helfrost effect attacks... Run (with Fleet no less!) and charge in the same turn (something Slaanesh players have been crying for literally for years now!)

These new Wulfen look like a freaking amazing force multiplier! And yet, all we hear is ***** that SW's still suck because they're just codex Thunderwolves.

No, you're not listening to the whole conversation, just taking your frustration about a lack of chaos updates out on other people.

First, 40k is first and foremost a shooting game, which units are regarded as the worst- Surges, D-Scythe wraithguard, Scat bikes, Knights dropping dual pie plates, centurions with Grav- each model GW creates seems aimed at topping the next in its ability to remove models from the board.

SW have an extreme lack of shooting in this edition- if like me, you are just using codex SW (I dont buy into the allies and all that stuff). Under the current codex we can't shoot much off the board. I won't claim to be a 40k genius, even if such a thing existing- but look at the tournament lists, watch the battle reports on Youtube, any competitive SW list (and they aren't even very competitive since Tau and Eldar) is usually comprised of a bunch of thunderwolves (then add in other units to taste, or not and just have one giant deathstar with multiple ICs). So what was I hoping for? I was hoping for some opportunities to shoot a bit more, which SW used to be a mid- range fire fight army and is actually more in the fluff if you read any of the Black Library books. SW aren't World Eaters, heck even the Death Guard were feared more than SW in close combat.

So my opinion is, we already have a close combat unit in Thunderwolves, and although Wulfen might not be useless, they are less durable (much of their durability comes from adding in ICs to tank, which I assume you cant do with wulfen as they have a special movement rule, run and assault) and slower- cav is faster in general. Yes, when they get to close combat perhaps they are more killy, but I would even argue they aren't since you could assign ICs on Thunderwolves to the TW unit. Thunderwolves dont have much of a problem killing once they get in close combat, wulfen wont either, however, they are less likely than TW to get into combat and more expensive you have to purchase them grenade launchers to assault into cover. People are forgetting they aren't a throw away unit at 250 pts (if you are putting thunderhammers and storm shields on them- if you don't they 4+ save definitely isnt going to get them anywhere near combat)- so just because they kill a unit as they die doesnt mean they made their points back. To me, to use a Chaos example, that would be like having a winged daemon prince that cant shoot, then makes a new daemon prince that has to footslog and cant shoot either. Why do chaos players put wings on their daemon princes instead of footslogging, even if they had run and assault, I would think the winged version would stiill be preferred.

So, my irritation stems from the fact that it seems that GW hasn't solved SW problem, yes they are decent in assault, but they still don't have the ability to take out threats at range as well, Now, formation might mean some units are free (like SM transports) and we can put more than 1850 in points on the board and this would allow us to weather the storm from the shooty armies, like SM and DA, but I somehow don't think that is the route they are going. I am still holding out hope that they will flesh out the Storm Claws and Grey Slayers and other original 13th company units and I can just ignore the wulfen altogether. Id like to get my bikes on the board and have them be semi competitive. I would like to see some diversity in SW lists at tournaments rather than them just be all Thunderwolves or even a switch to just Wulfen. There are plenty of Tau and Eldar builds that are all competitive, why can't all the codexes have that option (not just SW)?

As far as the helfrost pistol- and I am genuinely asking opinions in a competitive sense, not basement games- I dont understand why anyone thinks they are good, or even helfrost guns. They are expensive, they aren't as good as taking out tanks as lascannons/melta weaponry, and they aren't as good at taking out infantry as plasma and they have a rule attached that is horrible mechanics as far as game design. As they are expensive weapons, if you don't kill a big target you are better off having taken just lascannons/melta/plasma and if you get lucky and kill a hive tyrant on turn 2 with one, the guy on the other side of the table is going to be irritated you got lucky. I mean lets face it, in most situations the helfrost is only going to be removing models on a 6- so you have 16% chance, so if the model with the gun survives 6 turns and can shoot 6 turns with it, and there are multiwound models on the table that make it worth taking the expensive gun you get your points back or the guy across from you gets upset- randomness is not a good rules mechanic. I hear folks putting these guns on par with Grav- how in the world does that happen. The best thing about grav is the weight of fire the guns bring, even on the move. Helfrost you have 1 shot or 1 small template which might nip 2 models. Now, even if you take 3 helfrost in a unit and they all wound the model, your opponent still only takes 1 test which most likely he fails only on a 6, so even investing in more of the weaponry really dont help, unless you are putting them on multiple units and that would be extremely expensive. I would definitely be interested in hearing tournament players thoughts on helfrost. Thanks

So, at least it looks like I only need WD to play with the new Wulfen models and the campaign book is needed only if I want to use the formations.
Anyone knows if GW will reprint Space Wolves Datatacards that are no longer available?

GW never ever has reprinted anything except core rules and dexes.

Ragnar69 wrote:
GW never ever has reprinted anything except core rules and dexes.

That is incorrect.

Ragnar69 wrote:
GW never ever has reprinted anything except core rules and dexes.

You mean besides those nice little codex supplements for Flesh Tearers, White Scars, Raven Guard and Cadia (from the various recent campaign books) plus the Forge World campaign books and quite a few other things actually.

For the Wulfen, is there a limit to what special weapons the unit can take? Can they all have Axes or TH/SS?

Requizen wrote:
For the Wulfen, is there a limit to what special weapons the unit can take? Can they all have Axes or TH/SS?

Looks like every model can take whatever special weapons they want. They seem like they'd be fantastic with a TH/SS with FNP and 2 wounds.

The Wulfen look like they have great rules, to me. I don't see how anyone can view it as anything else. Death Frenzy sounds great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farseer M wrote:
Anyone knows if GW will reprint Space Wolves Datatacards that are no longer available?

Try local independents. A lot of them still have datacards on the shelf.

I wonder if they keep their Run -> Charge rules and reroll Charge if they have a character in the unit. It would be nice to get a Psyker in there with Invis/Endurance/Divination.

- Up to 5 additional Wulfen for x points

- A model may take a 'Stormsplitter-Salvo Grenade Launcher" for x points

- A model may take up to one of these:

Twohanded-Frost Axe
Two Frostclaws
Thunderhammer and Stormshield


- One Model may be upgraded to a Wulfen Pack Leader with two Frostclaws for x points

- The unit may take a Stormwolf as dedicated transport for x points.


I didnt check the point costs - it is top to bottom on the right side of the page



The german text is not answering what happens if you attach an IC - it says

'This UNIT can run and charge in the same turn. It can also re-roll failed charges.'

There are no limitations like 'If all models from this unit have this rule...' or anything similiar.



*Fixed mistakes*

Do we know who can take the new helfrost pistols ?

Hm, as far as I can judge those 2 pts grenade launchers will be a must. Of what I could read they allow the wulfen to fight at normal initiative in addition to shooting.

Ok so I wake up and all the weapons for Wulfen got posted plus a helfrost pistol.

From what I can see the Wulfen are going to attrack a metric gak ton of fire from everywhere. It's a nice and annoying thing since it will take some from TWC. Though the axe gives us a reason to use it because of 5 Str8 ap2 at init swings on the charge vs 6 str6 ap2 swings.