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Charles Dance would have made a great Tarkin, though I personally wasn't bothered by CGI Tarkin. It was much less noticeable the second time.

They shouldn't have done the full huge face closeup of Leia, and just had her side on or something. Enough that you recognise it's her, but not so much that you notice the CGI.

 Skymate wrote:
I think Crennick [or however his name is spelled] wears white to make him more iconic. Plus the white could be a nod to Thrawn anyway; seeing as the film was full of nods to the E.U

Krennic. It's in the movie credits.

There's actually quite a few white tunic/black trouser uniforms on particular officer types in ep4 and on the DS1 I saw at least 4 in ep4 (pre-special edition VHS version and they are still in the SE) and a few others in R1 - so I'd say it's more a "branch" uniform thing than a particular affectation for him. Imperial Security Bureau also wear that combination (that's current 'canon', too).
Thrawn has an ALL white uniform (tunic/trousers both white).

There've been different coloured uniforms since ep4 was the ONLY sw movie.

Finally got round to watching.

Went with a huge Star Wars fan and we both had the same view - Awesome second half and very weak first half - in fact if I understand correctly lots of re-shoots so guess that's why it seemed the two half's were from different films.

Thought the Jedi guy was good, once they got together for the final mission it was brilliant, but before then it was very hit (the robot, jedi guy, Captain assassin) and miss (hugely annoying breathing mask resistance guy was awful), Given the Japanese/Samurai fiction influence on Star wars - Blind Jedi made perfect sense - they love that stuff

Imperials want to capture guy and use his wife and kid as hostages - yeah ok that makes perfect sense - so they don't shoot her with stun bolt but kill her so they have zero leverage - ok that's stupid.

Seriously the writers need to watch something like "The Man in the High Castle" to see how repressive empires do stuff if they want to try and "be gritty" (to be honest everyone should watch it - best drama on tv at the moment - bar none).

Thought it amusing that Darth now lives at Mount Doom in a bad copy of Sauron's tower

 Mr Morden wrote:

Thought it amusing that Darth now lives at Mount Doom in a bad copy of Sauron's tower

My wife isn't as into these kinds of movies as I am, but Vader's "castle" on "Mustafar" looked so much like Mordor that even she leaned in to whisper that reference to me during the film.
Even still, I loved that part.

-

Watched it last night. The effects were great but that's honestly the only good thing I can say about the movie. I didn't give a single flying feth about any of the characters, terrible pacing, zero emotional investment in anything that happened on screen, the whole thing was pretty atrocious. I can't believe how many people liked the droid, it was such a try hard character. Empire remains the only Star Wars movie I like start to finish.

 -Loki- wrote:
Charles Dance would have made a great Tarkin, though I personally wasn't bothered by CGI Tarkin. It was much less noticeable the second time.

They shouldn't have done the full huge face closeup of Leia, and just had her side on or something. Enough that you recognise it's her, but not so much that you notice the CGI.

Someone or several someones did an amazing job on CGI Tarkin. Though his age and gauntness were somewhat exaggerated (his face looked noticeably more like a skull) it lines up with how my friends and I remember him from the original movies.

Side note: IIRC in return of the Jedi it's mentioned that the second Death Star is capable of targeting capital ships, which implies (it may have been stated) that the first one could not. However, we see the first Death Star targeting cities on a planet's surface without completely destroying the planet. My question is: does the first Death Star have precision targeting or not, and if not what's up with what it did in the movie?

Hitting a city at range is easier than hitting a capital ship moving at a greater speed (relative to a planet's rotation) at closer range.

That'd be my logical guess, anyway.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Side note: IIRC in return of the Jedi it's mentioned that the second Death Star is capable of targeting capital ships, which implies (it may have been stated) that the first one could not. However, we see the first Death Star targeting cities on a planet's surface without completely destroying the planet. My question is: does the first Death Star have precision targeting or not, and if not what's up with what it did in the movie?

I don't think this was ever mentioned on-screen, wasn't it an EU thing?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Hitting a city at range is easier than hitting a capital ship moving at a greater speed (relative to a planet's rotation) at closer range.

That'd be my logical guess, anyway.

And even if you miss, the beam still hits a planet rather than shooting through your fleet and beyond.

 Mr Morden wrote:


Thought the Jedi guy was good, once they got together for the final mission it was brilliant, but before then it was very hit (the robot, jedi guy, Captain assassin) and miss (hugely annoying breathing mask resistance guy was awful), Given the Japanese/Samurai fiction influence on Star wars - Blind Jedi made perfect sense - they love that stuff

Imperials want to capture guy and use his wife and kid as hostages - yeah ok that makes perfect sense - so they don't shoot her with stun bolt but kill her so they have zero leverage - ok that's stupid.

Thought it amusing that Darth now lives at Mount Doom in a bad copy of Sauron's tower

1: Chirrut isn't a jedi. Not all force sensitives are Jedi/sith. He just knows enough to focus roughly using the force. Enhanced reactions (dodging shots), knowing where things are/will be to shoot them whilst blind. He might have BEEN a Jedi had Palps not wiped out the temples.

2: I don't think Death Troopers have a "stun" setting. They are intended as kill troops. NOT capture troops. You send them in when you want something DED. Besides, she shot Krennic before getting killed. At that point, knowing that the daughter was still out there was enough for Krennic. Parents will do more to protect their offspring than they will for other adults.

3: As for "mount doom" and Vader's castle on Mustafar (well, unnamed volcanic lava planet at the time). That has been a thing in the concept art since pre-production for ESB (1978). NOT a new thing. They are actively going back to the archives for unused source material for the new stuff, and extrapolating from those. Doug Chiang has been doing that stuff since ep1 days. He's a big fan of Ralph McQuarrie's work (as are all of the art department of ILM) since his work pretty much defined the look of SW back in the days. Too many nerds drawing parallels to PJ's execrable LOTR movies these days.

It's also stated in "Rebels" (canon) that Mustafar is where Jedi go to die. So I'll assume Vader brings them back to his crib for some "special play time" before killing them. Probably to find out if they know where others are.

 chromedog wrote:
3: As for "mount doom" and Vader's castle on Mustafar (well, unnamed volcanic lava planet at the time). That has been a thing in the concept art since pre-production for ESB (1978). NOT a new thing. They are actively going back to the archives for unused source material for the new stuff, and extrapolating from those. Doug Chiang has been doing that stuff since ep1 days. He's a big fan of Ralph McQuarrie's work (as are all of the art department of ILM) since his work pretty much defined the look of SW back in the days. Too many nerds drawing parallels to PJ's execrable LOTR movies these days.

Example:

 chromedog wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Thought the Jedi guy was good, once they got together for the final mission it was brilliant, but before then it was very hit (the robot, jedi guy, Captain assassin) and miss (hugely annoying breathing mask resistance guy was awful), Given the Japanese/Samurai fiction influence on Star wars - Blind Jedi made perfect sense - they love that stuff

Imperials want to capture guy and use his wife and kid as hostages - yeah ok that makes perfect sense - so they don't shoot her with stun bolt but kill her so they have zero leverage - ok that's stupid.

Thought it amusing that Darth now lives at Mount Doom in a bad copy of Sauron's tower

1: Chirrut isn't a jedi. Not all force sensitives are Jedi/sith. He just knows enough to focus roughly using the force. Enhanced reactions (dodging shots), knowing where things are/will be to shoot them whilst blind. He might have BEEN a Jedi had Palps not wiped out the temples.

2: I don't think Death Troopers have a "stun" setting. They are intended as kill troops. NOT capture troops. You send them in when you want something DED. Besides, she shot Krennic before getting killed. At that point, knowing that the daughter was still out there was enough for Krennic. Parents will do more to protect their offspring than they will for other adults.

3: As for "mount doom" and Vader's castle on Mustafar (well, unnamed volcanic lava planet at the time). That has been a thing in the concept art since pre-production for ESB (1978). NOT a new thing. They are actively going back to the archives for unused source material for the new stuff, and extrapolating from those. Doug Chiang has been doing that stuff since ep1 days. He's a big fan of Ralph McQuarrie's work (as are all of the art department of ILM) since his work pretty much defined the look of SW back in the days. Too many nerds drawing parallels to PJ's execrable LOTR movies these days.

It's also stated in "Rebels" (canon) that Mustafar is where Jedi go to die. So I'll assume Vader brings them back to his crib for some "special play time" before killing them. Probably to find out if they know where others are.

1) fine - not a Jedi - but could have been one - yeah I get that. Who declares when you get to be a Jedi if they are all dead or hiding (especially major cowards like Yoda who apparently abandoned all his principles as soon as things started to go bad)

By the end of the film I think he was a Jedi.

2) Do they have a stun setting or not? So no one knows?

Well IF they don't (and apparently they might have) then the main bad guy was even more stupid then he seemed. Why bring a kill team on a simple grab mission (except of course to have new models to sell in the shop etc). Apparently the wife was the threat so just stun her on sight.

Its not like the scientist was a major bad ass - just bring a group of storm troopers - stun everyone and look for the kid, if you can't find her - well put pressure on the father via the wife and get her that way. The plot might have seemed a bit more likely if the wife had been used as leverage against him whilst he was working for the Empire.

3) and you do realise that Mount Doom/Saurons images predate that guys work by many many decades.

Oh and the one in the pic does not look like the one in the film - which looks just like Saurons tower in the books and films.

What's with the nerd crack eh? Un-needed

Yoda didn't cut and run, towards the end of Clone Wars he began to commune with QGJ, and not only learned how to preserve his concsciousness after death from him, but over the course of events received a vision of everything that was to come. He knew he needed to be around to teach Luke if there was any hope of defeating Palpatine, so he played the long game.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yoda didn't cut and run, towards the end of Clone Wars he began to commune with QGJ, and not only learned how to preserve his concsciousness after death from him, but over the course of events received a vision of everything that was to come. He knew he needed to be around to teach Luke if there was any hope of defeating Palpatine, so he played the long game.

Before he had this noncanon"vision" he ran away.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yoda didn't cut and run, towards the end of Clone Wars he began to commune with QGJ, and not only learned how to preserve his concsciousness after death from him, but over the course of events received a vision of everything that was to come. He knew he needed to be around to teach Luke if there was any hope of defeating Palpatine, so he played the long game.

Before he had this noncanon"vision" he ran away.

Yep - well ran away and hid himself.

 chromedog wrote:


1: Chirrut isn't a jedi. Not all force sensitives are Jedi/sith. He just knows enough to focus roughly using the force. Enhanced reactions (dodging shots), knowing where things are/will be to shoot them whilst blind. He might have BEEN a Jedi had Palps not wiped out the temples.

He's not force sensitive at all.

One of the new additions to the EU is that the Force is a religion (this was expanded on in the prequel novel to The Force Awakens). Chirrut is one of the faithful. He can't use the force, but he believes in it and that it will guide him in whatever purpose he is meant for.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yoda didn't cut and run, towards the end of Clone Wars he began to commune with QGJ, and not only learned how to preserve his concsciousness after death from him, but over the course of events received a vision of everything that was to come. He knew he needed to be around to teach Luke if there was any hope of defeating Palpatine, so he played the long game.

Before he had this noncanon"vision" he ran away.

The problem is that now he's just an idiot who was shown everything that was going to happen and was too stupid to put two and two together, or he willfully let all the Jedi die just because some force spirits said so (including all those younglings, won't someone think of the younglings!).

Honestly it made more sense when he cut and ran. Palpatine's too strong. We can't win. Bide our time. It makes more sense than "some force ghosts told me we were screwed so I let it happen."

I always thought that everyone in the Star Wars galaxy is in tune with the force and if they believed in it it can slightly (and randomly) empower them. Chirrut would be an example of what a regular being could do with the force. And every once in a while a being is born who's more sensitive to the force and can learn to outright control it...a potential Jedi or Sith. Is that in the ball park or am I way off?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I always thought that everyone in the Star Wars galaxy is in tune with the force and if they believed in it it can slightly (and randomly) empower them. Chirrut would be an example of what a regular being could do with the force.

I think that's supposed to be the implication. In the old EU there was the implication that "luck" was just a sort of rudimentary force sensitivity. Guys like Boba Fett and Han Solo could pull off insane stunts because at a very basic level they were using the Force. Instinct is nothing more than the Force guiding you. The new EU still seems to be running with the idea. The character of Bendu in Star Wars: Rebels hints at this in his conversation with Kanan Jarrus in Rebels Season 3*.

*Speaking of which, there's also the Lasat Prophecy that comes up in Season 2 of the series. There are no Force Sensitives among the Lasat but they do worship the Force (which they call the Ashla, an old EU term for the ancient "Light Side" that is also used by Bendu in Season 3 of Rebels). Despite not having any Force users, the Lasat still end up receiving and followed a Force prophecy to fruition.

 Mr Morden wrote:



Oh and the one in the pic does not look like the one in the film - which looks just like Saurons tower in the books and films.

Pic doesn't look like the one in the movie because it was one done for the pre-production of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK around 1978.
THAT'S how old the Vader's castle idea is.

As for the nerd crack ... I'm a nerd, you're a nerd. Revel in it. If you can't look at your hobby and laugh, maybe step back and take a long hard look at yourself and THEN laugh. It's a hobby, not a religion, not meant to be taken seriously.

 chromedog wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:



Oh and the one in the pic does not look like the one in the film - which looks just like Saurons tower in the books and films.

Pic doesn't look like the one in the movie because it was one done for the pre-production of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK around 1978.
THAT'S how old the Vader's castle idea is.

As for the nerd crack ... I'm a nerd, you're a nerd. Revel in it. If you can't look at your hobby and laugh, maybe step back and take a long hard look at yourself and THEN laugh. It's a hobby, not a religion, not meant to be taken seriously.

Yep you a right the one in the movie looks like Saurons tower - everyone saw it, most people like me just thought it was amusing - notice the guys wife in a previous post who is not into sci-fi andlikely not a nerd got it.

You do know how much older the imagery in LOTR is than Star Wars right?

I think Vader having a base on Mustifar may be a nod or referance or something to an early draft of REVENGE of the Jedi in which Palpatine's castle/pallace was on a lava planet.
Theres a lot of pre production artwork out there for it. My guess as to why it was never used originally was that maybe filming it would have been too difficult in the early 80's?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yoda didn't cut and run, towards the end of Clone Wars he began to commune with QGJ, and not only learned how to preserve his concsciousness after death from him, but over the course of events received a vision of everything that was to come. He knew he needed to be around to teach Luke if there was any hope of defeating Palpatine, so he played the long game.

Before he had this noncanon"vision" he ran away.

The Clone Wars is canon.

With the sequel film Star Wars: The Force Awakens in production, in April 2014 Lucasfilm rebranded the Expanded Universe material as Star Wars Legends and declared it non-canon to the franchise. The announcement called the feature films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars animated series "the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

The problem is that now he's just an idiot who was shown everything that was going to happen and was too stupid to put two and two together, or he willfully let all the Jedi die just because some force spirits said so (including all those younglings, won't someone think of the younglings!).

Honestly it made more sense when he cut and ran. Palpatine's too strong. We can't win. Bide our time. It makes more sense than "some force ghosts told me we were screwed so I let it happen."

For all we know, that was the only sequence of events that actually lead to an outcome that wasn't Vader and Palpatine laying the groundwork for generations of opression. It is difficult to make an argument that Yoda is stupid or a coward, it is relatively easy to make a case for he allowed events to unfold, regardless of the cost to the Order or to him personally, as it was the only way to win. Especially as these events happen very close to the end of TCW and, as such, Palpatine was already well ensconced and Anakin had already taken his first steps towards his fall.

@Morden: I know the BOOK is older, but it wasn't an illustrated picturebook last I heard so I don't know where the pictures come from?

 chromedog wrote:
@Morden: I know the BOOK is older, but it wasn't an illustrated picturebook last I heard so I don't know where the pictures come from?

Which book - Lord of the Rings or the Star Wars one- Saurons Tower was created, discussed, and illustrated in varied ways long before Star Wars was even thought about.

The image in the new film looks like the Tower in the new LTR films.

Most people see that and find it interesting, amusing etc. It might even be a homage by the creator in the new film - Dark lord and his Dark tower - its not a huge stretch. Who knows.

Too many nerds drawing parallels to PJ's execrable LOTR movies these days.

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are......

It is difficult to make an argument that Yoda is stupid or a coward,

Coward: An evil force arises, it is in its early stages and has yet to attain and maintain full control of the myriad worlds, consequently its grip is fragile. Do you, as apparently the guardian of Jedi ideals and belief, supposedly a leader and almost peerless light sabre duelist

A) Rally what forces you can in this period of uncertainty and if it is not possible to defeat the rising enemy, try to mitigate the damage, you know save lives.

B) Loose one fight, immediately run away and hiding yourself safely away whilst the galaxy burns.

The vision thing is a total cop out - yeah the visions told me (and only me) to hide and stay safe - oh no no they didn't tell me anything about the rise of the Sith, only what to do once they had won and how to win in the future.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yoda didn't cut and run, towards the end of Clone Wars he began to commune with QGJ, and not only learned how to preserve his concsciousness after death from him, but over the course of events received a vision of everything that was to come. He knew he needed to be around to teach Luke if there was any hope of defeating Palpatine, so he played the long game.

Before he had this noncanon"vision" he ran away.

The Clone Wars is canon.

With the sequel film Star Wars: The Force Awakens in production, in April 2014 Lucasfilm rebranded the Expanded Universe material as Star Wars Legends and declared it non-canon to the franchise. The announcement called the feature films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars animated series "the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

The problem is that now he's just an idiot who was shown everything that was going to happen and was too stupid to put two and two together, or he willfully let all the Jedi die just because some force spirits said so (including all those younglings, won't someone think of the younglings!).

Honestly it made more sense when he cut and ran. Palpatine's too strong. We can't win. Bide our time. It makes more sense than "some force ghosts told me we were screwed so I let it happen."

For all we know, that was the only sequence of events that actually lead to an outcome that wasn't Vader and Palpatine laying the groundwork for generations of opression. It is difficult to make an argument that Yoda is stupid or a coward, it is relatively easy to make a case for he allowed events to unfold, regardless of the cost to the Order or to him personally, as it was the only way to win. Especially as these events happen very close to the end of TCW and, as such, Palpatine was already well ensconced and Anakin had already taken his first steps towards his fall.

SO Yoda is now a coward AND a douchebag. Got it. No thanks. I'll keep my ESB version of Yoda intact.

Yoda fled because he realized that a single Sith lineage had survived hidden for a thousand years preparing and to fight a new war, while the Jedi just continued business as usual and were only prepared to fight the "old" war. If the single greatest Jedi (Yoda) could not beat the single greatest Sith (Palps) than clearly something needed to change.

That is also why Yoda did not instruct Obi-wan to train Luke from the start. He wanted the "Will of the Force" to determine the next step, rather than make the same mistakes that clouded the Jedi's arrogant judgement.
If Luke sought out the training, than it was meant to be. And we all know how that turned out

-

 Galef wrote:
Yoda fled because he realized that a single Sith lineage had survived hidden for a thousand years preparing and to fight a new war, while the Jedi just continued business as usual and were only prepared to fight the "old" war. If the single greatest Jedi (Yoda) could not beat the single greatest Sith (Palps) than clearly something needed to change.

That is also why Yoda did not instruct Obi-wan to train Luke from the start. He wanted the "Will of the Force" to determine the next step, rather than make the same mistakes that clouded the Jedi's arrogant judgement.
If Luke sought out the training, than it was meant to be. And we all know how that turned out

-

Again that makes Yoda sound like both a coward and a D bag. I was fine with him being "in exile" especially as he was (as the fact he died) freaking old and effectively powerless. But theis retro -he knew everything Cassandra style is just diarhetic poop to a great Jim Hensen creation.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 Galef wrote:
Yoda fled because he realized that a single Sith lineage had survived hidden for a thousand years preparing and to fight a new war, while the Jedi just continued business as usual and were only prepared to fight the "old" war. If the single greatest Jedi (Yoda) could not beat the single greatest Sith (Palps) than clearly something needed to change.

That is also why Yoda did not instruct Obi-wan to train Luke from the start. He wanted the "Will of the Force" to determine the next step, rather than make the same mistakes that clouded the Jedi's arrogant judgement. If Luke sought out the training, than it was meant to be. And we all know how that turned out-

Hmm that's sounds way off - the Jedi have apparently kept the peace for a thousand years and now the current chief Jedi decides that because he was not good enough to win a single fight - everything is wrong and the best thing to do is run and hide and hope for a miracle. Not maybe I should try again, maybe there is another way - nope -I lost the world has ended

"arrghhh time to run and hide."

Doesn't sound like a "protector", sounds like an arrogant fool who values his own life above all else.

So rather than Gandalf leading the Fellowship of the Ring - he goes off to a lost island off the coast on his own, ignores Sauron taking over the world and waits for a chosen one to be washed up on the coast. Awesome.

To be fair its more of a problem with the sheer awfulness of the prequel films and their inability to recapture the essence of the original trilogy.

Which is why they need to redo them from scratch imo. They're so awful they're dragging the whole thing down. *

* this is just my opinion though. Others may vary.

WOW!. What I posted was supposed to be evidence of Yoda's wisdom and trust in the Force.

Yet for some reason you guys interpreted it as evidence of his cowardice and hubris. Not what I meant....at....all.