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How do you feel about the State of 40k?
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Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
I saw the new Ork Boys kit. They look amazing but as a Guard player I'm incredibly pissed off. It's just another spit in the face, we're stuck with an upgrade sprue to a 20 year old kit. Which apparently justifies a $45 USD or $77 AUD cost for 10 Guardsmen.

"A Xeno army is getting updated but how can I make this about MEEEEEEE?"
Don't be that guy.

What's happened with the Cadian box is stupid - the price especially. Used to be AUD$50 for 20 of the fething things. It's over 300% more now.


Oh I agree the price is stupid, but don't crap on the Ork player's parade over it. They didn't do anything wrong.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 ClockworkZion wrote:
...Oh I agree the price is stupid, but don't crap on the Ork player's parade over it. They didn't do anything wrong.


But what would keep the community together if we couldn't all unite to crap on the SM players' parade about why GW is putting out an endless stream of new stuff for them and neglecting everyone else?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Racerguy180 wrote:
Ork = good way to do it
Guard = bad way to do it

Simple as that.


Yes, this.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Yep, nothing else to say about it. With so many cool new guard sculpts being released, I have no clue how they came to the conclusion that slapping an upgrade sprue on that old kit was what people wanted.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





The simple fact that it is cheaper to buy broodbrothers by 3CHF / box and you get a HWT on 3 squads on top of it for free should show the nonsense going on in regards to the cadian pricing.

I do hope for the sake of the ork boyz though that they are still compatible with the old ones and the same modular style...

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





RE: Orks

New boyz kit is going to be great, BUT definitely incompatible with old in terms of bit swapping. Possible scale creep too. And the price will be higher per model than the old boyz box.

RE: Guard

Some would say guard are getting the shaft with the upgrade sprue. BUT GW might have actually listened here: many guard players have HUNDREDS of Cadians. Resculpting Cadians would have caused all the problems listed for Orks above. Does the sprue justify the price hike? Not really.

But here's the key: I really don't think this is all the Guard is going to get. I think that most likely, Catachans will get a complete overhaul. We might even see an additional regiment on top of that. I think we should wait until we see the entire suite of offerings for the Guard before we judge whether or not GW has done right by them.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



London

Oh really? Listening? They would have released the new sprue separately for a £5 if that was the case, and repackaged the box to include a heavy weapon team (and could have cut the heavy weapon squad from the store).

Or gone really crazy, made the new sprue have 4 legs and 5 torsos plus bits on it, added it and the heavy weapons sprue to the command sprue and had a box set that makes all the infantry options...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/16 10:07:48


 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Oh really? Listening? They would have realised the new sprue separately for a £5 if that was the case, and repackaged the box to include a heavy weapon team (and could have cut the heavy weapon squad from the store).

Or gone really crazy, made the new sprue have 6 bodies on it, added it and the heavy weapons sprue to a box set for a generic Cadian box that makes all the infantry options...

I think you're misunderstanding something. The studio listened regarding the Cadian sprue, but they don't set the price. GW may be one company, but they're not always all on the same page on what is best for the community considering a portion of them only care about what makes the shareholders happy.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Nah. The studio didn't even listen there.

If they had been, it would have been done like the Fire Warriors: a refresh of the existing kit, with some new options added in to encourage older players to replace them and upped quality to bring in new interest.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't have the time to go looking for the quotes in other threads, but many, many guard players did not want "refreshed" Cadians because they've already spent hundreds of dollars on the existing models, just like many Ork players didn't want new boyz- that was the point of my post.

The point about how the sprue was rolled out is valid though- quite a few people would have liked the sprue to be released on its own.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 16:54:37


 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

PenitentJake wrote:
I don't have the time to go looking for the quotes in other threads, but many, many guard players did not want "refreshed" Cadians because they've already spent hundreds of dollars on the existing models, just like many Ork players didn't want new boyz- that was the point of my post.

I think you've missed the context of my post.

Look at the "refreshed" Fire Warriors in comparison to the previous kit. They are fairly identical. That's what the ideal situation for Cadians would have been: rejigging the contents while keeping a similar sculpt quality.

Additionally, speaking as someone with a hundred plus Cadians all outfitted with the FW respirator+backpack kits? If they gave the army a ground up rework that actually interested me in playing Guard again and models that I felt were an improvement...I wouldn't really care about rebuying stuff.

No matter how they do things for some of these armies? The grognards are going to be upset one way or the other. I'm pissed they didn't just release the sprue by itself but a reworked box and book would have gotten me selling my Cadians off to redo them.

The point about how the sprue was rolled out is valid though- quite a few people would have liked the sprue to be released on its own.

Sure, and quite a few people would probably have liked a better looking army in line with GSC or Skitarii.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

well all the Ork players I know want new Boyz, they just fear that GW will mess it up and rather prefer that the old ones stay before they get the easy to build Monopose stuff

similar for the Imperial Guard players here

yet GW cannot stay forever with the old models because this is one reason why people don't start those armies, so don't buy the new units either, sales are low and GW thinks people don't like them so they stop supporting them


so this was the worst possible choice for a Guard Box
if there would be the heavy weapon sprue as well (for the same price) it would look different but guess GW don't want to give 2 models for "free" or that people can build 2 more than they need to actually have options without using magnets

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

I think the weird assumption is that people buying GW miniatures are buying them to play the games, rather than just to build/convert and paint.

   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






I would have rather them make new models than do the bare minimum, effectively making them look worse in the process.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Ork = good way to do it
We ain't seen what the new Ork kit looks like. Given GW's modern standards we're infinitely more likely to get a set of very limited Orks that are completely incompatible with the rest of the Ork range.


You can see from the previewed Ork boy that they are 100% incompatible with existing kits. The right arm is almost certainly moulded to the body, probably attaching at the wrist to the right hand, instead of the whole arm being separate. I hazard a guess the left one is shoota, pauldron and all (plus the right hand) slots into the shoulder.

IOW, monopose Orks for a horde army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 17:51:54




A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Grimtuff wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Ork = good way to do it
We ain't seen what the new Ork kit looks like. Given GW's modern standards we're infinitely more likely to get a set of very limited Orks that are completely incompatible with the rest of the Ork range.


You can see from the previewed Ork boy that they are 100% incompatible with existing kits. The right arm is almost certainly moulded to the body, probably attaching at the wrist to the right hand, instead of the whole arm being separate. I hazard a guess the left one is shoota, pauldron and all (plus the right hand) slots into the shoulder.

IOW, monopose Orks for a horde army.

I'll take monopose Orks for more dynamic poses that don't look like they're trying to balance a tea tray across their ass.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ahhh- sorry Kan; you're correct- I mistook "refreshed" for resculpted. I gotcha now.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'll take monopose Orks for more dynamic poses that don't look like they're trying to balance a tea tray across their ass.


Now I want to an the army of Ork-butlers.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 vipoid wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'll take monopose Orks for more dynamic poses that don't look like they're trying to balance a tea tray across their ass.


Now I want to an the army of Ork-butlers.

What? No french maid Orks?

Also I had to shout out Tabletop Inquirer for summing things up nicely:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 20:26:12


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





I had seen that and laughed out loud at how accurate it is
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Rihgu wrote:
I had seen that and laughed out loud at how accurate it is

Yeah, it really nailed it in one.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
I had seen that and laughed out loud at how accurate it is

Yeah, it really nailed it in one.


Did it? Will the average Ork player only end up with one Boy kit? I'd agree with you and the joke for lots of other things, but it really doesn't seem true for Boyz.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
I had seen that and laughed out loud at how accurate it is

Yeah, it really nailed it in one.


Did it? Will the average Ork player only end up with one Boy kit? I'd agree with you and the joke for lots of other things, but it really doesn't seem true for Boyz.

Are you really going to notice 1 duplicate in every 5 or 10 models when you can make small visual changes with just a little paint? Seriously, people make this a bigger deal than it really is. And if you're really motivated to convert you'll make it work even if the kit isn't the easiest to work with. I speak with experience as conversions used to be done with all pewter models. Seriously, people need to put this hyperbole horse to bed and just chill.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, monopose works fine if you have as many or more poses as the size of units people take. The problem occurs when you're taking a unit of say 30 and there's only 10 or even worse only 5 different poses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Are you really going to notice 1 duplicate in every 5 or 10 models


Yes. Absolutely yes. I realize this varies a lot from person to person but if you are a "my dudes" kind of hobbyist this thing is genuinely a big issue.

I basically just don't buy monopose kits for unit sizes bigger than the amount of unique poses, but if I absolutely have to, I feel compelled to do a bunch of work customizing them so that you'd have to look very carefully to see which ones are repeats. And yes, you can still do that with a monopose kit, but it's a much bigger pain, and honestly more importantly it's about the feeling of having to fight against the kit to get something that is "your dude" that rankles.

I totally get there's a lot of other people who don't give a crap and every one of their ork boyz is just completely interchangeable with any other one. And that's fine. Different things are important to different people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 21:28:53


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, monopose works fine if you have as many or more poses as the size of units people take. The problem occurs when you're taking a unit of say 30 and there's only 10 or even worse only 5 different poses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Are you really going to notice 1 duplicate in every 5 or 10 models


Yes. Absolutely yes. I realize this varies a lot from person to person but if you are a "my dudes" kind of hobbyist this thing is genuinely a big issue.

I basically just don't buy monopose kits for unit sizes bigger than the amount of unique poses, but if I absolutely have to, I feel compelled to do a bunch of work customizing them so that you'd have to look very carefully to see which ones are repeats. And yes, you can still do that with a monopose kit, but it's a much bigger pain, and honestly more importantly it's about the feeling of having to fight against the kit to get something that is "your dude" that rankles.

I totally get there's a lot of other people who don't give a crap and every one of their ork boyz is just completely interchangeable with any other one. And that's fine. Different things are important to different people.


Yeah, like that satire would be funny if it was about complaints around... I dunno, Suppressors or something. But this example is just bad. And Zion, it would be incredibly easy to give examples of where a model sticks out in a unit of 5 or 10. So easy that I'm not going to dig anything up for you, literally just pick a recent monopose kit and there's probably an offender there.

Also, "at least it's better than when models were pewter!" is not an argument.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 21:38:07


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, monopose works fine if you have as many or more poses as the size of units people take. The problem occurs when you're taking a unit of say 30 and there's only 10 or even worse only 5 different poses...


Personally I'm more irritated by mono-pose characters, given that GW has demonstrated quite clearly that they're perfectly capable of doing non-monopose characters cheaper than monopose characters with the Exalted Sorcerers kit ($60/3 instead of $35/1, and the kit is way better than giving us one mono-pose TS Sorcerer would have been).

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
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 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Also, "at least it's better than when models were pewter!" is not an argument.

When it comes to the complaints about conversions being "too hard" it definitely is. People are trying to hard to find problems with every release.

Conversions have never been "easy". That's why most people don't do them. Kitbashes are easier and GW has been making some efforts to make kitbashing still possible. Like making GSC and Admech stuff compatible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 21:44:53


 
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





One of my favorite Land Speeders that I'd ever assembled features the pilot with one hand on the stick and the other on a bolt pistol that he's firing into the air while looking skyward, like he's having the time of his fecking life piloting his floating jet engine, while the Meltagunner is looking at him as if to say "Brother Johnson, what the hell are you doing?"

I smile a little every time I look at that Speeder in particular, and monopose models would have made that impossible. It's a small joy in the grand scheme of things, sure - but frankly I think it's an iffy prospect for GW kits to provide any less value per unit currency than they already do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 22:34:02


 the_scotsman wrote:
"here's this faction that we've turned into a gigantic uber-customizable metagolem of infinite customizability, you can have them in a car on the ground in a plane, in every conceivable playstyle that exists in the game, every single represented aesthetic, ninety-trillion different armor marks and styles, historical inspirations, every color in the rainbow, every race and culture of humanity...

...but you CANT make them ladies. that is the sacred line across which we must throw our bodies and souls! Space Marines can be every conceivable configuration of 'your dudes' imaginable, SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT IMAGINE THEM AS YOUR DUDETTES!"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, I have a custodes guy who's holding his sword reverse grip behind his back like some sort of ridiculous anime ninja, and it makes me lol every time I see him. He's both utterly cool and utterly derpy at the same time. It's like pure, distilled "my dude."

Could I in theory have done that with a monopose kit? I mean yeah, I guess, with an absolute ton of work. But it never would have even occurred to me in the first place if the kit had been made in such a way that you couldn't swap arms, because it was just fiddling with different combinations of arms and bodies than the standard ones that made me realize I could do it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 22:44:51


 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Rihgu wrote:
I had seen that and laughed out loud at how accurate it is
You say accurate. I say reductive.

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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