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New to Chaos and am wondering if the Defiler is worth it? I haven't seen him run in a long time. I have always been a fan of them but I am wondering its effectiveness in 7th edition now. Regardless I'd play for fun but again just looking for opinions. Thank you

General consensus is a big no. The Defiler has the main issue of having unspecialized armament that goes against each other. You want to fire that battle cannon? Great now the rest of your weapons have to snapfire. You want to use fleet while running to get closer to use your power fists? Now you've wasted your opportunity to use ranged weapons! Add onto that a very iffy armour value of AV12, even a 5++ invuln. and 4 hull points doesn't give you nearly enough survivability in today's meta which is filled with mass S6-7 shooting. Its high price tag only makes this worse and in comparison to its far superior (and somehow cheaper) cousin the Soul Grinder his flaws become almost impossible to ignore. Pretty much if you want to use a defiler its probably better just to ally in a Soul Grinder instead. You could always proxy it as a Soul Grinder given their similar sizes.

Dang. I was thinking he would be slightly inferior but I didn't realize he would be useless haha. I still may get one buy man idk.... I have always liked the model. I personally have never even seen a soul grinder ever fielded. Thanks!

It's pretty bad but there are some fun things you can do with it. I have one that I sometimes use in my Daemonkin. Load it up with 3 power fists and a power scourge for 225 points. Run it forward and try to draw fire. The type of weapons that can hurt the defiler are weapons you don't want being shot at the Bloodthirster and Daemon Prince (for KDK). If he dies, your MCs will be alive. If he lives then your MCs are probably dead but he will up in CC. He's basically a dreadnought with a battle cannon. Soul Grinder does everything he does better and for less points but the Defiler is a workable unit as a distraction.

I have played three games of chaos so far so here's my anecdotal evidence: in two games I infiltrated far scarier things with Huron and this took enough fire from the defiler to get into combat with extra first and dirge caster. The third game it died turn 1:p I love the model and have been enjoying playing so I say go for it if you just want to have fun with it!

In half your games it'll die like a chump and maybe kill a couple things. In the other it'll drive your opponent bonkers by making invulnerable saves and It Will Not Die rolls all day like a champ. It's fun though, which is why you play it. Also keep in mind that Daemonology psykers can buff its survivability quite a bit!

Can it be fun to use? Sure
Can you have some games with exceptional rolls where it's the star of your army? Of course

But this doesn't change the fact that it's extremely over priced, fragile and inferior to the far cheaper Soul Grinder in every way.

Plague Hulks (FW) are where it's at anyways, as they're both better than Defilers, a lot cheaper and accessible to regular CSM.

The last time I used my Defiler was at a local Beerhammer tournament, where I ran it as a Soul Grinder in my Daemonkin army. It was (ofc) a wysiwyg tournament, but the TO gave me permission to make this one exception as "no one is foolish enough to bring a defiler over a soul grinder, so it should be obvious to everyone that it's not actually a defiler so go ahead"

 Dalek Sec wrote:
Defiler is a workable unit as a distraction.

200 points is a lot for a distraction that can easily be shot to death.

The Defiler needs to be promoted to Single CAD Lord Of War Slot and Given Super Heavy Walker Status. Upgrade the battle cannon into Rapid for 2 shots at 70pts. The Super Heavy Walker Status allows 12" move and shooting ordanace without penalty and confers Invincible Behemoth wich nerfs explode and instant removal with d3 hull points loss and also gives str D stomp attacks. Getting 2 DCCW should confer Str D attacks.

 Filch wrote:
The Defiler needs to be promoted to Single CAD Lord Of War Slot and Given Super Heavy Walker Status. Upgrade the battle cannon into Rapid for 2 shots at 70pts. The Super Heavy Walker Status allows 12" move and shooting ordanace without penalty and confers Invincible Behemoth wich nerfs explode and instant removal with d3 hull points loss and also gives str D stomp attacks. Getting 2 DCCW should confer Str D attacks.

But doesn't this kind of go into brass scorpion territory where it already does a very similar role? I think it'd be better if they just followed the example set by the Soul Grinder and up its front and side to AV13 with a price decrease back to 150. Maybe give it a rule like "Daemonic Frenzy" where it can fire all its weapons before or after running. If not that at least make it so it can fire all its other weapons normally and at full BS regardless of the battlecannon's ordnance rule.

Well I find myself more inclined to purchase one now then before haha. I think he would be fun to field and have run about. Im surprised it's as much as it is both price and points.

I have never heard of a Plauge Hulk before. Are they better then the soul grinder? Brass scorpion? I am very behind it seems.

The Plague HulK basically is a Soul Grinder (of Nurgle) with some different armaments

Deffy will either do very well or very poorly.

I'd nearly always go with a Soul Grinder. It's cheaper and the gun is identical, and the range very rarely comes into it.

The Deflier pays for its adaptability, even though only one load out works, giving it all close combat weapons, if it could ignore the ordinance rule it might be worth it.

So what it be recommended to buy a actual soul grinder model over the Defiler? I doubt I will ever field him in official play so proxy will never be an issue. However what about a decent layout for the Defiler? Autocannonn with close combat arm is the better fielding, or can I replace Autocannonn with another close combat weapon? Thanks again very much!

 Greyguy13 wrote:
So what it be recommended to buy a actual soul grinder model over the Defiler? I doubt I will ever field him in official play so proxy will never be an issue. However what about a decent layout for the Defiler? Autocannonn with close combat arm is the better fielding, or can I replace Autocannonn with another close combat weapon? Thanks again very much!

Defilers are about the same size, so if you already have a Defiler there's no reason to really spend anymore money. Just make sure the wargear is appropriately represented and you'll be good to go.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Filch wrote:
The Defiler needs to be promoted to Single CAD Lord Of War Slot and Given Super Heavy Walker Status. Upgrade the battle cannon into Rapid for 2 shots at 70pts. The Super Heavy Walker Status allows 12" move and shooting ordanace without penalty and confers Invincible Behemoth wich nerfs explode and instant removal with d3 hull points loss and also gives str D stomp attacks. Getting 2 DCCW should confer Str D attacks.

But doesn't this kind of go into brass scorpion territory where it already does a very similar role? I think it'd be better if they just followed the example set by the Soul Grinder and up its front and side to AV13 with a price decrease back to 150. Maybe give it a rule like "Daemonic Frenzy" where it can fire all its weapons before or after running. If not that at least make it so it can fire all its other weapons normally and at full BS regardless of the battlecannon's ordnance rule.

Lots of models do similar roles, but either way you look at it, one is will be used for role A (usually because it's cheaper) and the other for role B (which usually mean beefiness)

The defiler needs to be a SHW simply because of how it functions, how it hasnt had a price drop in forever and viably it just doesnt perform compared to similar vehicles and Heavy Support slotted units. Why would I take a Defiler for instance, at 195 points bare, for CC when I could take a 125 point Maulerfiend, that moves twice as fast, has the capability to eat Vehicles and Fortifications with Melta Melee hits via Magma Cutters and comes with the same 5++ survivability? The short answer is "There isn't a valid reason to waste points in a model that can be out performed by another model, unless you're playing for fun and or fluff reasons"

That being said, I have/had 2 defilers and I have them now magnetized to be Soul Grinders/Plague Hulks which has helped me a great deal since my newbie days of 40k thinking they were amazing. (Flashback to myself : Pro tip self, they werent)

The only other problem Chaos as a faction in general have is this stupid nonsense of Daemonic Possession reducing WS and BS to 3. Once that gets resolved in the next dex, we might see some more competitive play from the CSM dex again.

I used to run 3 defilers in the old codex. The main reason I stopped was because the cost skyrocketed.

While the conflicting armament can be frustrating, it did make for a nice platform that could hurtle pie plates across the battlefield. And, if someone did decide to get cute and come close, it could handle itself in CC as well.

I used to love running defilers in 5th but since then they've been collecting dust on my shelf. Honestly its the fact that they are way over costed now, they've always been a distraction unit, just before their price justified it.

I would hesitate to encourage them even in casual play - it's no fun when your big cool model dies immedietly to modest AT fire. The AV13 of the Soul Grinder makes it hugely more surivable against S6 and S7 stuff.

Take a Soul Grinder as part of an allied detachment with a Daemon Prince and some Nurglings or Pink Horrors. Or else use the Plague Hulk (which is basically just a Soul Grinder anyhow).

I personally like the Defiler model and use it as a counts-as Soul Grinder. I believe the leg portion is exactly the same on both models.

Well I think I want to buy a Soul Grinder model over the Defiler. It just seems it would be better plus it doesn't look too bad at all. Hard decision still... I was able to find the codex and found his stats not too bad. I'm not sure how to use him yet efficiently but I have a few fun ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I think I want to buy a Soul Grinder model over the Defiler. It just seems it would be better plus it doesn't look too bad at all. Hard decision still... I was able to find the codex and found his stats not too bad. I'm not sure how to use him yet efficiently but I have a few fun ideas.

Might be worth it to hold the defiler in reserves, wait till the khorne dogs take down whatever was going to shoot at it, then have it come in and drop pie plates across the table.

I just thought of that and think I'm going to try it tonight...

 Greyguy13 wrote:
New to Chaos and am wondering if the Defiler is worth it? I haven't seen him run in a long time. I have always been a fan of them but I am wondering its effectiveness in 7th edition now. Regardless I'd play for fun but again just looking for opinions. Thank you

It wasn't worth it two editions ago, when it was 45 points cheaper and much harder to kill.

It wouldn't be that difficult to take a Soul Grinder model and give it magnetised limbs so it can count-as either a Defiler or a Soul Grinder and with a choice of weapons. (In theory you could do the same with a Defiler model, but it would be more work, I think.)

Knowing GW's random buffing/nerfing policy, it's entirely possible that the next codex could suddenly make a Defiler much better.

Na, the 45 cheaper version was pretty damn good.

Shame such an iconic monster doesn't function in reality.

So in regards to the Soul Grinder being better, how would a Maulerfiend compare? Would it be better to field one of them instead?

 Greyguy13 wrote:
So in regards to the Soul Grinder being better, how would a Maulerfiend compare? Would it be better to field one of them instead?

Maulerfiends ain't bad. They're pretty quick to get to melee and they're able to generate more hits, with even one Power Fist hit guaranteeing a single Melta hit, which helps a lot.

Maulerfiends are decent enough because they don't pay for all these guns, they know just what they want to do-maul stuff.
Add in some speed, and you get a decent assault unit.

 Greyguy13 wrote:
So in regards to the Soul Grinder being better, how would a Maulerfiend compare? Would it be better to field one of them instead?

Maulerfiends are excellent, but you will want to run at least two if you want to get one into combat, otherwise they get shot to death.

And 3 Maulers will make your day.