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Dark Age of Technology

Age of Strife

Horus Heresy


talking in terms of long term effects on man

Dark Age of Technology wasn't a devastating event. It was actually a golden age. It's only called a Dark Age as information from that time is scant. The Age of Strife is the crisis that ended that period, and was a result of advancements made then too.

If you want a third crisis, the Age of Apostasy is generally cited as a major catastrophe.

Regardless, the Age of Strife is clearly the winner. It happened 10,000 years ago, and Mankind still hasn't recovered their strength from that period. It also lasted much longer than any other crisis - between 5-7 thousand years.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Age_of_Strife

Age of Strife easily. Avoid the 40k wiki on it though it has loads of fanfic

Age of strife was the severest bum harshing, by far.

Agreed. Human civilisation essentially collapsed in the Age of Strife.

The Horus Heresy was bad, but the Old Night lasted hundreds, if not thousands of years. The Heresy lasted seven.

I'm gonna say the Horus Heresy, purely because i don't think it's an event humanity can recover from unless the big E is ressurected, the age of strife probably hurt more but the Emperor was around to fix it, now humanity is in an unending cycle of screwing itself over to try and survive, in part because they don't have the legions they need to secure the imperium

Horus Heresy.

It was the final chance of rebuilding a prosperous human civilization, and it was lost. Ten thousand years later, and things are (still) going downhill.

Age of Strife was bad, but it wasn't a total disaster, as humanity was able to recover from it relatively fast.

Edit. And yeah, DAoT wasn't a negative event, but in fact it was the golden age of humanity. It's called Dark Age due to the fact that so little is known about it.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
Horus Heresy.

It was the final chance of rebuilding a prosperous human civilization, and it was lost. Ten thousand years later, and things are (still) going downhill.

Age of Strife was bad, but it wasn't a total disaster, as humanity was able to recover from it relatively fast.
.

The Age of Strife led off with the war with the men of iron, which mankind barely survived. It completely destroyed intersteller communication and travel. It took 5000 years and the intervention of a living god to restore any semblance of control/communication to the human race. Without the intervention of the Emperor, humanity would have died out completely.

The HH was bad, and it did set thing into motion of down hill, but if someone/thing of the Emperor's caliber came along it could all be fixed in a year.

The Horus Heresy. The Age of Strife sucked but it led to a second golden-age for Humanity. one where they were literally just a few decades away from conquering the entire Galaxy. The Horus Heresy on the other hand not only shattered the military strength of the Imperium, but the edicts put in place to prevent it from happening again have stifled the Imperium's growth to the point where it's locked in a 10,000 year death-spiral.

"The Forging (M32-M35) is also sometimes known to Imperial historians as the Golden Age of the Imperium. During this period the Adeptus Terra brought the most important human-settled star systems of the galaxy that had not been reached by the Great Crusade under Imperial control and expanded the interstellar borders of the Imperium."

Just saying. Things were bad in the immediate aftermath of the Heresy and it fundamentally changed the structure and beliefs of the Imperium, but from a simple area of control and infrastructure approach, combined with the view that the rise of the Imperial Cult strengthened the Imperium more than the Imperial Truth ever did, things were pretty okay for a long time. Thus, I give my vote to the Age of Strife.

Age of Strife.

Humanity was split up. Even Terra had no contact with its Moon.
The Scouring that followed the HH didn't have to reconquer everything.

An Age of Thousands of Years surely beats a Heresy of seven Years+X.

Age of strife makes the heresy look like a water balloon fight

For mankind? Probably the Age of Strife, since it represents a decline in human civilization that they have yet to recover from in over 10,000 years. Now, for the galaxy? Probably the Horus Heresy. The Heresy initiated events that brought the power and influence of Chaos to an all time high. With the Emperor on the brink of death, supported only by the archaic technology of the Golden Throne and the one thing keeping the Chaos Gods from flooding into the galaxy, the Horus Heresy really put all of the materium in a bad place.

Age of Strife easily.

but wasn't humanity able to recover from the age of strife

hence the great crusade,


humanity never recovered from the heresy

No, humanity hasn't really recovered from the Age of Strife.

The Great Crusade made do with what it had, but compared to the Age of Technology's humanity, the Imperium that the Crusade won back remains a fraction of the size.

Easily the age of strife. Even at the peak of the emperor's knowledge he was still just relying on the carcass of humanity's knowledge learned during the dark age.

You have to remember to, that much of the early 40k fluff is blatantly stolen from Dune. The point of that fluff, is to create a setting where there aren't a lot of high tech things in the universe. So machine spirits when you're really just AIs become mystical. Essentially, it helps explain why things look not that different 40,000 years in the future.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
No, humanity hasn't really recovered from the Age of Strife.

The Great Crusade made do with what it had, but compared to the Age of Technology's humanity, the Imperium that the Crusade won back remains a fraction of the size.

Even after the great crusade humanity still was not near it's DAoT hieghts. If the HH has never happened humanity MIGHT have eventually recovered from the Age of Strife but not a certainty.

The Horus Heresy.
With the effective death of the Emperor the galaxy is all but doomed to the torment of the Warp.

May I offer an alternative? Not as big a catastrophe but pretty bad was the period immediately following the Macharian crusade. Nearly a thousand planets systematically falling into total upheaval at once.

What's a thousand planets compared to half the Imperium (Horus Heresy) or the entirety of human civilisation (Age of Strife)?

Had the Age of Strife never happened, the Great Crusade, and thus the Heresy, may have never needed to happen. With DAoT tech, the regular human soldier could have done what it took Space Marines to do.

The Horus Heresy. There is no recover from that. That's literally the beginning of the end in the same words of the authors.

For how hard the age of strife may have striked, with the Big E still around humanity would have been fine in the long run.

 Judge Dredd wrote:
The Horus Heresy. There is no recover from that. That's literally the beginning of the end in the same words of the authors.

For how hard the age of strife may have striked, with the Big E still around humanity would have been fine in the long run.

This is a fallacious argument. If the Age of Strife hadn't ruined Human civilization, they wouldn't have needed the Emperor in the first place!

If the Emperor was the only thing keeping Humanity going after the Age of Strife, and the Horus Heresy almost removed him, then the catastrophic scenario you go back upon his death is simply a return to the situation that existed during the Age of Strife.

The Horus Heresy cannot be worse than the Age of Strife if the main fallout was that it almost put Humanity back to that level. It makes no sense at all.

The Age of Strife, without the intervention of the Emperor, would have been the extinction event for mankind. Without the Great Crusade, humanity would have been condemned to a long drawn out extinction.

But mankind is now basically assured continual existence thanks to Chaos. The Emperor has created a perfect opponent for chaos. A foe for them to eternally fight and thrive off the conflict generated. They'll never destroy the Imperium because they don't want to. They want an eternal stalemate, and they've basically gotten that.

Hierophant wrote:

 Judge Dredd wrote:
The Horus Heresy. There is no recover from that. That's literally the beginning of the end in the same words of the authors.

For how hard the age of strife may have striked, with the Big E still around humanity would have been fine in the long run.

This is a fallacious argument. If the Age of Strife hadn't ruined Human civilization, they wouldn't have needed the Emperor in the first place!

If the Emperor was the only thing keeping Humanity going after the Age of Strife, and the Horus Heresy almost removed him, then the catastrophic scenario you go back upon his death is simply a return to the situation that existed during the Age of Strife.

The Horus Heresy cannot be worse than the Age of Strife if the main fallout was that it almost put Humanity back to that level. It makes no sense at all.

Uuh.. not sure you are making any sense at all to be honest.

Humanity was recovering/progressing again from the Age of Strife. Humanity IS NOT recovering/progressing again from the Horus Heresy but actually the opposite if anything, because it is the setting itself that demands it. Therefore to me it was the worst of it all. As simple,as that.

Saying that HH wouldn't have happened if the Age of Strife hadn't ruined Human civilization is like saying that Age of Strife wouln't have happened if we hadn't the DAOT. We can go backwards indefinitely but I don't see the use for it in this case.

Except that the Age of Technology did not cause the Age of Strife.

The rebellion of the Iron Men was a powerful blow against the Age of Technology humans, but not a fatal one.

The Age of Strife itself happened as much because of the Eldars' descent into hedonism as anything else - the warp storms that carved the galaxy apart are what really created the Age of Strife.

 Judge Dredd wrote:


Uuh.. not sure you are making any sense at all to be honest.

Humanity was recovering/progressing again from the Age of Strife. Humanity IS NOT recovering/progressing again from the Horus Heresy but actually the opposite if anything, because it is the setting itself that demands it. Therefore to me it was the worst of it all. As simple,as that.

Saying that HH wouldn't have happened if the Age of Strife hadn't ruined Human civilization is like saying that Age of Strife wouln't have happened if we hadn't the DAOT. We can go backwards indefinitely but I don't see the use for it in this case.

Humanity was not recovering or progressing after the age of strife. It took the most powerful god in the universe, the emperor to get humanity to make positive progress. Without him, Humanity would have been snuffed out.

 Exergy wrote:

 Judge Dredd wrote:


Uuh.. not sure you are making any sense at all to be honest.

Humanity was recovering/progressing again from the Age of Strife. Humanity IS NOT recovering/progressing again from the Horus Heresy but actually the opposite if anything, because it is the setting itself that demands it. Therefore to me it was the worst of it all. As simple,as that.

Saying that HH wouldn't have happened if the Age of Strife hadn't ruined Human civilization is like saying that Age of Strife wouln't have happened if we hadn't the DAOT. We can go backwards indefinitely but I don't see the use for it in this case.

Humanity was not recovering or progressing after the age of strife. It took the most powerful god in the universe, the emperor to get humanity to make positive progress. Without him, Humanity would have been snuffed out.

It's not a competition about whether the humanity could have make it on her own or not. It's about whether there was the conditions for surviving and progressing. With The Emperor the latter was possible. Now it is not, at least until the setting will tell us otherwise..

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Except that the Age of Technology did not cause the Age of Strife.

The rebellion of the Iron Men was a powerful blow against the Age of Technology humans, but not a fatal one.

The Age of Strife itself happened as much because of the Eldars' descent into hedonism as anything else - the warp storms that carved the galaxy apart are what really created the Age of Strife.

Even if I was partially wrong your post is the proof that we can go searching cause backwards indefinitely, just as I said. I still see no reason for it in a discussion of this kind.