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Now that I am finishing up another list, and it seems to be shaping up rather nicely, since I have acquired a couple of new models I did not have before (i.e. Maulerfiends, Slaaneshi Bikers), I felt I could run another kind of list that is less shooty and more in-your-face. Trouble is, I can run two kinds of lists, one with Raptors and a Jump Lord, the other with Bikers and a Bike Lord.

List A: Raptors

1850pt

HQ - 495pt

Chaos Lord - 145pt
-Combi-Weapon (Melta)
-Jump Pack
-Mark of Slaanesh
-Power Armour
-Power Weapon (Sword)
-Sigil of Corruption

Be'Lakor - 350pt

Troops - 450pt

Noise Marines - 225pt
-3x NM w/ Bolter, 1x NM w/ Blastmaster
-Icon of Excess
-Noise Champion
--Bolt Pistol
--Doom Siren
--Power Weapon (Sword)
-Chaos Rhino
--Dirge Caster

Noise Marines - 225pt
-3x NM w/ Bolter, 1x NM w/ Blastmaster
-Icon of Excess
-Noise Champion
--Bolt Pistol
--Doom Siren
--Power Weapon (Sword)
-Chaos Rhino
--Dirge Caster

Fast Attack - 530pt

Heldrake - 170pt
-Baleflamer

Heldrake - 170pt
-Baleflamer

Raptors - 190pt
-Mark of Slaanesh
-Icon of Excess
-2x Meltagun
-4x Raptors
-Raptor Champion
--2x Lightning Claws
--Melta Bombs

Heavy Support - 375pt

Maulerfiend - 125pt
-Magma Cutters

Maulerfiend - 125pt
-Magma Cutters

Maulerfiend - 125pt
-Magma Cutters

List B: Bikers

1848pt

HQ - 495pt

Chaos Lord - 150pt
-Combi-Weapon (Melta)
-Bike
-Mark of Slaanesh
-Power Armour
-Power Weapon (Sword)
-Sigil of Corruption

Be'Lakor - 350pt

Troops - 450pt

Noise Marines - 225pt
-3x NM w/ Bolter, 1x NM w/ Blastmaster
-Icon of Excess
-Noise Champion
--Bolt Pistol
--Doom Siren
--Power Weapon (Sword)
-Chaos Rhino
--Dirge Caster

Noise Marines - 225pt
-3x NM w/ Bolter, 1x NM w/ Blastmaster
-Icon of Excess
-Noise Champion
--Bolt Pistol
--Doom Siren
--Power Weapon (Sword)
-Chaos Rhino
--Dirge Caster

Fast Attack - 530pt

Heldrake - 170pt
-Baleflamer

Heldrake - 170pt
-Baleflamer

Chaos Bikers - 183
-Mark of Slaanesh
-Icon of Excess
-2x Meltagun
-3x Bikers
-Chaos Biker Champion
-2x Lightning Claw

Heavy Support - 375pt

Maulerfiend - 125pt
-Magma Cutters

Maulerfiend - 125pt
-Magma Cutters

Maulerfiend - 125pt
-Magma Cutters

List A has a tad bit more maneuverability having jump infantry and more fear units which gives Be'Lakor more opportunities to generate bonus D3 warp charges, whereas List B I feel is probably faster and a tad bit more durable (Turboboost and Jink).

In either army, the strategy is to overwhelm the enemy with big scary targets (9-11 separate targetable units if Rhinos go off on their own), while Be'Lakor does his Telepathy and Invisibility tricks to mess with the opponent's options to effectively target. The Noise Marines are meant more for backfield objective sitting while the Rhinos either support them with cover or follow along with the Raptors/Bikers and Maulerfiends to avoid possibilities of over watch fire. I feel the list is really fast either way, and can get in the opponent's face very quickly with a lot of bad options to target.

Which list do y'all feel could be the stronger list? Raptors or Bikers?

Also, should I bother with the Sigil of Corruption on my Biker Chaos Lord since he gets the Jink rule, or should I keep it for CC encounters and those moments when weapons Ignore Cover?

If you're not going with Nurgle, you need that Lord on a Bike. Otherwise, you're too easy to ID. Tougher to kill > +1I, even when you have Belakor to spam Invisibility. Therefore, the second list is going to automatically be better.

However, there's still improvements that can be made. You aren't going to be able to make a lot of attacks with a Power Sword, so I think being able to spam wounds would be better. Therefore, I think the Black Mace is worth 30 points more. You strike first and wound a lot easier.
However, we need to lose points, and luckily that's easily done.
You'll likely never use your Doom Sirens, Power Swords, or Dirge Casters on those Noise Marines. This saves a lot of points.

And YES always bother with the Sigil. Jinking won't save you in melee with something that's ignoring your armor.

I have been messing around with something similar, just can't seem to get everything I want in there, that and necrons are just plain better right now unfortunately, from my point of veiw anyway.

Drop the icons of excess on anything that isn't at least a 10 man squad. Need to maximize on the incons effectiveness.

Also agree with black mace statement. Might need to drop a mualer or a helldrake. Alternatively you could drop the bikers and get spawn, riding with them, netting you some points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My list is as follows

Chaos lord - bike, mark of slanesh, black mace or no, sigil of corruption
Be'lakor

Chaos bikes - 10 man squad, 2 meltas, mark of slanesh, icon of excess

Noise marines - 2 x 10 men, no sonic blasters, 2 blastmasters in each, icon of excess in each

Helldrake

3 x maulerfiends

You can drop the black mace, the sonic blasters on the marines, and maybe a melta to get the 3rd mauler in or you can drop the 3rd mauler and get the extra bling.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you're not going with Nurgle, you need that Lord on a Bike. Otherwise, you're too easy to ID. Tougher to kill > +1I, even when you have Belakor to spam Invisibility. Therefore, the second list is going to automatically be better.

However, there's still improvements that can be made. You aren't going to be able to make a lot of attacks with a Power Sword, so I think being able to spam wounds would be better. Therefore, I think the Black Mace is worth 30 points more. You strike first and wound a lot easier.
However, we need to lose points, and luckily that's easily done.
You'll likely never use your Doom Sirens, Power Swords, or Dirge Casters on those Noise Marines. This saves a lot of points.

And YES always bother with the Sigil. Jinking won't save you in melee with something that's ignoring your armor.

@Slayer-Fan123

Thank you for this input!

I had considered the Black Mace, and now that there are two recommendations, I think I will definitely add it to my Lord, AND keep the sigil, as you only confirmed my fears of going without it.

The fun part about Doom Sirens is that they are easy to ignore on a model as they are such a subtle piece of gear that sometimes it could be considered a decoration, I will definitely consider dropping them. Since the NM are backfield, they will probably never hit with them. Will be hard to say no to a Power Sword, but I think I could find myself giving them up.

The Dirge Casters aren't for the NM, as the Icon of Excess is meant for their ability to survive, not their riding in a metal box and assaulting outside of it; the dirge casters are on the Rhinos that will ride around the battlefield alongside the Maulerfiends and the Bike Squad to reduce overwatch for those units (nothing to ruin your day like a SUPER lucky Melta snapshot). I really would like to keep them, not to mention it gives my opponent a 40pt scoring nuisance that they have to decide whether they will direct fire away from my Maulerfiends for or not.

Epartalis wrote:
I have been messing around with something similar, just can't seem to get everything I want in there, that and necrons are just plain better right now unfortunately, from my point of veiw anyway.

Drop the icons of excess on anything that isn't at least a 10 man squad. Need to maximize on the incons effectiveness.

Also agree with black mace statement. Might need to drop a mualer or a helldrake. Alternatively you could drop the bikers and get spawn, riding with them, netting you some points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My list is as follows

Chaos lord - bike, mark of slanesh, black mace or no, sigil of corruption
Be'lakor

Chaos bikes - 10 man squad, 2 meltas, mark of slanesh, icon of excess

Noise marines - 2 x 10 men, no sonic blasters, 2 blastmasters in each, icon of excess in each

Helldrake

3 x maulerfiends

You can drop the black mace, the sonic blasters on the marines, and maybe a melta to get the 3rd mauler in or you can drop the 3rd mauler and get the extra bling.

@Epartalis

Kind of neat that this list isn't too far off from something you are working on!

I tried out the list you have, and depending on details, it ranges anywhere from 1860pt - over 2000pt, which are both over the threshold I'm aiming for. I'm trying to keep all three Maulerfiends, and both Heldrakes so they can all tag team keeping heat off of Be'Lakor.

I intend on keeping the Icon of Excess on whatever size NM unit I have, as I intend for them to stay backfield and want to avoid my opponent getting wise and focusing fire just to end up popping a unit with a strong hit.

I'll play around with these ideas and post the updated Biker list soon!

Black mace is a trap unless you're a daemon prince for AP2. Since you've got the combis, you're not getting an extra attack anyway, might as well go with lightning claws for free shred at no cost instead of the power sword.

If you're not fighting 3+ armour all the time, then swap for a power maul.

Bikes>>>jump packs unfortunately.

I think you're trying to do too much with too little and have spready yourself too thin. Thos icons aren't going to save such small units if the enemy focuses fire, and if they're in the rhino not getting shot at, then they don't need a 35 point upgrade. At the moment, they're a waste of points that you could desperately use elsewhere.

Definately lose the 30 points of claws on your biker champ though, he's just there to eat a challenge that your lord doesn't want or catch bullets for one of the melta gunners.

As crazy as it sounds, consider dropping belakor for an unmakerd lvl 3 sorceror on bike with sigil. You have a fairly resonable chance to roll either invis or shrouded and it gets you shriek as well. Use the spare points to shore up your noise marine squads and get that 2nd blast master at 10 men.

Something like;

155 - Lord, MoS, Combi, Bike, Sigil, Claw
165 - Sorc, ML3, Sigil, Bike, Combi
322 - 10x Noise marines, 2x Blastmasters, Icon, Rhino
322 - 10x Noise marines, 2x Blastmasters, Icon, Rhino
175 - 5x Bikers, MoS, Icon, 2x Melta guns
170 - Heldrake
170 - Heldrake
125 - Maulerfiend
125 - Maulerfiend
125 - Maulerfiend

1849

Edit: Crap, forgot the spell familiar on the sorc, either drop the combis on the 2 HQ's and replace with Familiar and a melta bomb (my choice) or just live without a Spell familiar (worse than heresy!)

 Drasius wrote:
Black mace is a trap unless you're a daemon prince for AP2. Since you've got the combis, you're not getting an extra attack anyway, might as well go with lightning claws for free shred at no cost instead of the power sword.

If you're not fighting 3+ armour all the time, then swap for a power maul.

Bikes>>>jump packs unfortunately.

I think you're trying to do too much with too little and have spready yourself too thin. Thos icons aren't going to save such small units if the enemy focuses fire, and if they're in the rhino not getting shot at, then they don't need a 35 point upgrade. At the moment, they're a waste of points that you could desperately use elsewhere.

Definately lose the 30 points of claws on your biker champ though, he's just there to eat a challenge that your lord doesn't want or catch bullets for one of the melta gunners.

As crazy as it sounds, consider dropping belakor for an unmakerd lvl 3 sorceror on bike with sigil. You have a fairly resonable chance to roll either invis or shrouded and it gets you shriek as well. Use the spare points to shore up your noise marine squads and get that 2nd blast master at 10 men.

Something like;

155 - Lord, MoS, Combi, Bike, Sigil, Claw
165 - Sorc, ML3, Sigil, Bike, Combi
322 - 10x Noise marines, 2x Blastmasters, Icon, Rhino
322 - 10x Noise marines, 2x Blastmasters, Icon, Rhino
175 - 5x Bikers, MoS, Icon, 2x Melta guns
170 - Heldrake
170 - Heldrake
125 - Maulerfiend
125 - Maulerfiend
125 - Maulerfiend

1849

Edit: Crap, forgot the spell familiar on the sorc, either drop the combis on the 2 HQ's and replace with Familiar and a melta bomb (my choice) or just live without a Spell familiar (worse than heresy!)

I will admit, replacing Be'Lakor with a Sorcerer definitely makes the list more competitive.

I tried putting this list together in BattleScribe, and keeping the Combi-Melta on the Lord, but dropping it on the Sorc and adding a Spell Familiar: I end up at 1830pts. Not sure if I'm overlooking something or not.

With 20 extra points, not sure where to put it.

Also:

Do you think the single claw is better than the power weapon on the Lord?

Not including charge bonus, that's 3 base attacks with re-roll-able wounds, vs 4 base attacks that cannot re-roll for wound. I'm having a hard time deciding, as I read he gets to keep his pistol with a Combi-Weapon.