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Hello all,

Want to start off by saying that the Imperial Fists (Crimson Fists actually, but the tactics are the same) and Dark Angels are TWO separate lists. Rather than making two separate threads, decided to just group them into one.

Anyways, as the title suggests, I'm going up against Necrons and I have Fists and Angels at my disposal. The lack of D-Weapons is rather troublesome. So I came here in hopes to get some help. So far, I think the only thing I'll be using 'for sure' is the Stormwing Formation. Just to dish out some anti air. But if everyone feels their a bad idea, I don't necessarily need to use them.

Other than the Stormwing Formation, I'm drawing blanks on what to use. Thoughts?

Assualt Centurions will actually punch holes through units reliably, and reduce RP by 1 9/10 times- and the 2+ rerollable jink the ravenwing gets isnt nothing to sneeze at either.

Ultramarine Vindictus wrote:
Assualt Centurions will actually punch holes through units reliably, and reduce RP by 1 9/10 times- and the 2+ rerollable jink the ravenwing gets isnt nothing to sneeze at either.

I need to ask, what do the Assault Centurions have that can hurt them reliably and what reduces the RP? I haven't used them before so I'm not familiar with them.

The best way to beat Necrons is to catch them in combat. Their low Initiative saves plus a lack of Stubborn or Fearless will increase the likeliness of being swept after combat is over, completely negating any of their saves.

They offer three Str 10 AP 2 at initiative 4 on the charge with Centurion stats.

As for your last question, any hit that would cause instant death will reduce the RP by 1.

dark talons and a deredeo, the rift cannon forces an initiative save and necrons are slow as molasses. when they fail they are removed from play with no saves.

it is not considered ID and its not considered a wound therefore the models are dead. the rift cannon instagibs everything that isnt a wraith and can potentially slay even high AV's as its weapon is s10 anyway

yes i recognize the raw power of the wraiths but even if hes brought them in bulk a whole chunk of his army has effectively been taken out of the game and is simply waiting to die and theres little he can do about it, and then the wraiths and anyone lucky enough to not get rift cannon'd will be fighting an outnumbered and outgunned war against an army that loves unfair fights

The problem with the Centurion idea above is that, as a Necron player, I would simply never go near them. I don't know what army list you'll be facing but mine has the mobility to never get within charge range of slow-ass centurions.
Personally, I would ignore them until they're the last ones left and then either go for objectives or focus my fire on them.

If you post the list of the Necron army you'll be facing, maybe we could provide some more accurate suggestions.

Keep in mind that assault cents are SnP, so while they will indeed hand out a beating to most anything they catch that isn't warscythe lychguard, they won't be sweeping anything.

#1 weakness of necrons is assault.

Get some power weapons that strike at initiative into his squads, and said squads will crumble very quickly.

 Otto Weston wrote:
The problem with the Centurion idea above is that, as a Necron player, I would simply never go near them. I don't know what army list you'll be facing but mine has the mobility to never get within charge range of slow-ass centurions.
Personally, I would ignore them until they're the last ones left and then either go for objectives or focus my fire on them.

If you post the list of the Necron army you'll be facing, maybe we could provide some more accurate suggestions.

Well the last time I fought them my opponent used 2 or 3 squads of immortals (consisting of 5 in each, I believe), a squad of lychguard (also consisting of 5, I believe), 3 wraiths, a squad of warriors (can't remember how many were in the squad), a Catacomb Command Barge, and a really, really, really decked out Royal Court formation. Should mention that it was a 1500 point setting.

That's not to say he'll be playing this list every time. He has other things at his disposal.

Any marine unit strong enough to put a dent in a Necron unit is asking to get Wraith'd.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Any marine unit strong enough to put a dent in a Necron unit is asking to get Wraith'd.

(assuming the wraiths will ever be able to deal with the threat, wraiths cant attack planes for example)

There should be a "melee" qualifier in there- consider it a typo.

So basically, there's no sure fire way to beat Necrons with Space Marines or Dark Angels. Just trial and error and hope for the best?

I play a lot vs a Decurion (with Canoptek harvest and Destroyer cult... basic necron net list) with my Dark Angels. Here's what works for me :

- Grav weapon for the wraith with a lot of bolters. He's bound to fail some saves and since I played lion blade, he will lose even more wounds before getting into assault.

-Grav Weapons are also good to negate his armor saves...RP is then managable.

-RWCS and BK assisted by a Darkshroud will wreck his non assault dedicated units

Yeah, grav. I had my Dante, Sang guard & Sang priest deathstar bounce off a canoptek formation. Necrons dont fear HtH. Lychguard dpnt fear HtH either. They're now better at HtH than they've ever been. The idea that they're vulnerable to close combat is a left over idea from 3rd edition.

Blobs of warriors with Lord, cryptek for pe and an arc for extra res are invulnerable. Bring all your cheese. Be ashamed of nothing. Frack it, bring an Iknight formation.

Or was it the Dlord for PE? Either way, major suckage.

 Red Marine wrote:
Yeah, grav. I had my Dante, Sang guard & Sang priest deathstar bounce off a canoptek formation. Necrons dont fear HtH. Lychguard dpnt fear HtH either. They're now better at HtH than they've ever been. The idea that they're vulnerable to close combat is a left over idea from 3rd edition.

Blobs of warriors with Lord, cryptek for pe and an arc for extra res are invulnerable. Bring all your cheese. Be ashamed of nothing. Frack it, bring an Iknight formation.

Or was it the Dlord for PE? Either way, major suckage.

I was honestly confused by why people were suggesting close combat. Because I had a squad of 6 black knights go up against 5 or 6 lychguard and get annihilated. Might just say screw it and use my Eldar/Harlequins for every time I face Necrons haha

Seriously, have none of these people saying Necrons fold in close combat even played against 7th ed. 'Crons?
Yes, that might still hold true for shooty robots (Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, etc.), but choppy robots (Lychguard, Wraiths, Praetorians, Flayed Ones, etc.) tend to blend anything they touch... and people are suggesting they attack these things hand to hand?!

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, have none of these people saying Necrons fold in close combat even played against 7th ed. 'Crons?
Yes, that might still hold true for shooty robots (Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, etc.), but choppy robots (Lychguard, Wraiths, Praetorians, Flayed Ones, etc.) tend to blend anything they touch... and people are suggesting they attack these things hand to hand?!

Oh, no way in hell does it hold true for Shooty Robots unless you completely overkill them. Dropping the majority of assault units with mid-battle casualties into a Warrior or Immortal blob is a good way to tarpit both units for a few turns.

You attack first, a few lose their saves and pass reanimation, a few fail reanimation. They attack back, more are there to hit you than there would have been in the last codex, more are there to pass their leadership check than last edition.

Still, if you can instant death them down to the point where all they get is a 6+++, go for it.

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, have none of these people saying Necrons fold in close combat even played against 7th ed. 'Crons?
Yes, that might still hold true for shooty robots (Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, etc.), but choppy robots (Lychguard, Wraiths, Praetorians, Flayed Ones, etc.) tend to blend anything they touch... and people are suggesting they attack these things hand to hand?!

I managed to pull it off with freaking TAU every now and then.
A real assault force can do it with high consistency.

Choppy bots exist, but are rarely the focus of a necron force.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Choppy bots exist, but are rarely the focus of a necron force.

Canoptek Harvest lists (either Wraith or Scarab heavy variants) and Lych-Stars would disagree with you...

Dark Angels have actually some good cards against necrons:

1) Blind. You got lots of it. Blind is the greatest necron weakness, a mace of absolution in a squad makes wraith think 3 times before assaulting you (they test at I2 even with whips).
2) Dark talons. Blind weapons + a bomb that bypasses RP and a rerollable jink, can't ask for anything more than that.
3) Necrons have really few ways to ignore cover.
4) Necrons have close to zero psy defenses and you have the discipline with the highest susceptibility to DtW rolls. Interromancy gives you many many ways to neuter necron's offensive.

For your basic Necrons, anything that ignores their armor saves works. Necrons are only durable if they get both their armor/cover and a RP save. Otherwise they are at best a 4+ RP save.

Things with invulns (wraiths) will require a tarpit unit.

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, have none of these people saying Necrons fold in close combat even played against 7th ed. 'Crons?
Yes, that might still hold true for shooty robots (Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, etc.), but choppy robots (Lychguard, Wraiths, Praetorians, Flayed Ones, etc.) tend to blend anything they touch... and people are suggesting they attack these things hand to hand?!

Then... dont... assault these units? Isn't the typical mantra for this game to assault shoot units and shoot assaulty units?

DirtyDeeds wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Seriously, have none of these people saying Necrons fold in close combat even played against 7th ed. 'Crons?
Yes, that might still hold true for shooty robots (Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, etc.), but choppy robots (Lychguard, Wraiths, Praetorians, Flayed Ones, etc.) tend to blend anything they touch... and people are suggesting they attack these things hand to hand?!

Then... dont... assault these units? Isn't the typical mantra for this game to assault shoot units and shoot assaulty units?

Correct, but someone making a blanket statement of "Necrons suck in CC" could get some people who see it and don't know any better into a lot of trouble in an actual game if they try to charge their marines into a unit of Flayed Ones and expect to come out on top (hence the qualifier/clarification of "SHOOTY Necrons AREN'T VERY STRONG in CC" being made).

Here's what I've found to be the main Necron Weaknesses:

#1 - Low Initiative: Doesn't mean all too much in combat, since they're so dead 'ard, but it does mean that anything that functions off of initiative is very useful! As has been stated BLIND is the bane of Necrons. Bringing them down to WS1/BS1 really reduces their effectiveness.

#2 - Invisibility/Fliers: For the exact same reason as above. Necrons count on weight of fire/attacks a lot more than most other armies. As such, having units that cannot be easily engaged by the Necrons is paramount.

#3 - Range: Inside 24", Necrons are one of the best armies out there. Outside 24", they stink. The more you can play "keep away!" the better. Try to hit Necrons on a flank, but prepare for the Wraiths to come 'round quickly.

#4 - No Psykers: The Dark Angels have some great psychic powers for going against the 'Crons, just like my Harlequins. Use these to your advantage. See how well Royal Courts do versus Mind Worm when they become bumbling idiots.


The only other ways I've beaten the 'Crons is by just absolutely HAMMERING one squad at a time. I know, that should work against most things in the game... but from the sound of it this guy's only real manoeuvrable units are the Wraiths. In this case, hitting him on a single flank just much help out!

Good luck!

Ditto to what Yarium said, certain armies can not be beaten simply by adding a certain unit and necrons is one of those armies. You have to outplay your opponent strategically, getting your units into positions to charge his units that can die in cc easily such as their troop choices, shooting their lychguard with grav weapons which ignores their high toughness and their dangerous warscythes, killing the wraiths spyder before you attempt to kill the death star which greatly reduces the star's durability.

You simply have to know their units weaknesses and exploit them, and play better.

You're gonna laugh at this, but landspeeders.

Heavy Bolters and/or assault cannons crap on necron foot units. Dark Angels have access to this in spades (support squadron has strafing run to shoot at BS5), and the other codexes can use groups of stock landspeeders on the cheap. Plus, necrons can't do anything about the 36" range as everying is 24".

Use this information wisely and with other things that can pop ghost arks so you can get at the squishy stuff inside =]

These guys have it covered. I will say don't worry too much about killing all the wraiths. With stubborn leadership 8 it's unlikely you will break from combat, so 2 or even 3 wraiths won't pose much threat. Our wraiths are a tarpit unit, not much else after that.
If the other army includes sword and board lychstar , which I suspect it will if he has them and characters, then don't even bother shooting them. At the very best they will kill a unit a turn, and that's assuming you leave all of your army clumped together.

Debilitate wrote:
landspeeders.
[...]
necrons can't do anything about the 36" range as everying is 24".

Heavy Destroyers would be a realistic concern.

Black Knights + Darkshroud/ typhoon support and Dark Talons, with biker librarian support.

Got my ass handed to me by that on sunday. Necrons have few sources of ignore cover (and I only had 3 tomb blades built, which died in the first turn).