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So seeing as there has been a lot of hate towards the eldar codex (it does have some cheese lol) what things should you change in the book to balance it.?

A lot. Wraithknight needs to go up at least 100pts, formation bonuses should be much weaker, either exarchs should be 1 wound like everyone else or everyone else should have 2 wounds. Less ''6's to wound mean you insta die''. 1/3 for weapons on Wind Riders.

Just to name a few

~400pt Wraithknight, Jetbikes as Fast Attack or Elites if equipped with multiple Scatter Lasers/Cannon per five models. Similar to Dark Eldar Warriors/Trueborn. I would like to see less D weapons, but that isn't even the issue these days. Too many things are too cheap and Str D doesn't bug me as much as my TYRANIDS being outnumbered..

Just increase the Wraithknight's price a bit. They're petty balanced with the other cheesy armies (Space Marines, Ad Mech, Daemonkin etc.)

Bikes: 1 scatter laser per 3 bikes.

Special weapons in Windrider squads 1 in 3. Double the point cost on Wraithknights. Dust off hands and ride into the sunset.

Yep, pretty much everything could stay the same if their point cost wasn't also super efficient compared to most other codecies. Go ahead and have the super cool special rules...just pay for them.

No scatterlasers on bikes at all. Only shuriken cannon. Shuriken cannon option +5 pts.

Wraithknight +175 pts.

Warp Spiders +5 pts

War Walkers +15 pts

Far Seer +15 pts

I'm liking the ability to fit a Windrider squad up as full HW, but I limit myself to 1 bike in 3 in the army, not the unit.
Eldar Jetbike rules are in the BRB, so it's not the codex's fault about them. But, allowing every jetbike to take a HW is too much.

I don't use the Wraithknight, but it does need making less auto-take. It is a compulsary pick in the Wraith formation, which is a pain, as it's the only way to get a Spiritseer in the 'Decurion' structure.

Formation bonuses are excessive.

Martel732 wrote:
No scatterlasers on bikes at all. Only shuriken cannon. Shuriken cannon option +5 pts.

Wraithknight +175 pts.

Warp Spiders +5 pts

War Walkers +15 pts

Far Seer +15 pts

The no scatter lasers on bikes is a good change, I think with just cannons they are still effective and better then before but not as crazy when you have a 48" range with a gun (12" move- 36" gun)

Wraithknight needs to cost more or return all wraith weaponry to last codex i.e. the Distort special rule (6's remove from game, but Invuln save allowed, no multi-wound)...D cannons artillery can still be Strength D, they are not a problem.

Shuriken weapons should be AP 3 on 6's

Monofiliment should be AP 2 on 6's

Jetbikes special weapon choices back to original 1 for every 3, scatterlasers wouldn't really be that bad if it was returned to this limit

nothing else really needs changing.


Formations:
When it comes to formations, I'm more conserned with Skyhammer Annihilation force. When combined with the other stuff Space Marines can dish out, the Eldar formations are fine the way they are. Even Adeptus machinus and Skitari combined formations are on par with Eldar and the Skyhammer. so you would need to fix all formations in all Codices not just Eldar.

Generally speaking I don't have a problem with the abilities in the book, I simply feel they are not being paid for. A Wraithguard with 'D' isn't inherently wrong, but having it as a Troops choice and cheaper than a Terminator certainly is.

Army-wide Level
Bladestorm- Justified as a concept, but AP2 is too far IMO. It should cut through armour without trivializing it completely.
Changed so that a '6' to Wound is resolved at one-lower AP.

Aspect Warriors- If we've established that WS5/BS5 is acceptable, just make it part of the base profile and adjust costs accordingly.
Formation bonuses changed to something less significant.

Craftworld Warhost- No way that 12 Wraithknights are justified . Simply move them to their own slot apart from the Wraith Constructs and impose a limit, or introduce a 'tax' of Spiritseers and Wraiths to unlock them.

Unit-specific
Windriders toned down to 1-in-3 heavy weapons, guns increased in cost. A 17pt Jetbike also seems criminal so I heavily support a 4+ save.
Scorpion's Claw reduced to AP3. Can be cranked back to AP2 but invokes Unwieldy for that turn.
Wraithguard are Slow & Purposeful so no Walls of Death. 'Honoured Dead' prevents them from being joined by any character except Spiritseers.
Warp Spiders simply need a price increase IMO, although I'm not opposed to a S5 reduction.
D-Cannons a simple, significant price increase.
Wraithknight nuked in points, easily another 150. I could also see them becoming Unique, but that one might get the Eldar playerbase justifiably upset.

Tournament results say it's already balanced.

jet bikes fast attack no more strength d flamers 400 points wraithknight

Bikes can keep their multi-specials, but they need to be FA.

And they need to be like everyone's else bikes and give only +1 T and not 2+ to saves as well.

Nor do exarch needs to get SO much more than any other team leaders in any other army.


Wraithknights should get either heavy nerf, or heavy price bump. also should not be "field at will" via wraith construct.

Beyond that, eldar will probably be alright.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Tournament results say it's already balanced.

Depends on the tournament. If you go by ITC, they've changed the rules in a way to combat the the power of ranged D, for example.

Moving Bikes to Fast Attack doesn't change the Windrider formation. I think they should be limited to one scatter laser per squad, period. They should also have a 5-10 or increase per model. Wraithknights should be 400 pts base.

Couldn't in good faith only put my changes for eldar because it wouldn't make sense alone, so I'm gonna just drop my houserules here.


A roll of 6 on the Destroyer table does d3+3 hull points or wounds instead of d6+6. Saves still may not be taken.
Destroyer weapons do not roll on the vehicle damage chart in addition to the Destroyer table against normal vehicles.
When super heavy walkers and gargantuan monstrous creatures choose to trade their attacks for a single smash attack, it becomes str D instead of the normal benefits.
Beasts may embark on the transports normally, but may not move more than 6” when disembarking.
Any model that is a character in a unit receives 1 additional wound as well as any other benefits, to a max of 3W. Codex Eldar, Skitarii, and Harlequins do not gain this benefit.
Custom units created with the V.D.R. may be used, but the stats should be run by your opponent and me beforehand for approval
Storm bolters may be fired as a heavy 3 weapon instead of assault 2. The heavy 3 option may not be used for snapshots.
Monstrous Creatures only get cover if 25% obscured or more.
All missile launchers gain their flakk equivalent upgrade for free if available.
Stealth: Models that target units with the stealth usr with ranged attacks take a -1 penalty to their Ballistic skill. This replaces the normal benefit.
Shrouded: Models that target units with the shrouded usr with ranged attacks take a -2 penalty to their Ballistics skill. This replaces the normal benefit.
Ignores Cover: Units with this special rule don’t take the B.S. penalty for firing at units with the stealth or shrouded special rules. This is in addition to the normal benefit.
Any unit attacking a unit under the benefit of the “invisibility” psychic power are treated as having failed a blind test, even if they would normally be immune. This is instead of the normal benefit.
Psyckers in a unit are treated as independent models for the purposes of casting powers and generating warp charges
Flying monstrous creatures that arrive via deepstrike may choose to be swooping or gliding when they arrive.
Vehicles with the “heavy” type ignore the penalties for firing ordinance weapons
Poison and sniper weapons take no penalty to wounding gargantuan creatures
Weapons with the “primary” special rule ignore a weapon destroyed result inflicted against them on a 4+
Superheavy vehicles take damage from the vehicle damage table with the following changes
Ignore the crew shaken and crew stunned result
Immobilized results lower their speed by half. Multiple immobilized results do not lower this further, but do add the extra hullpoint loss as normal

Chaos Space Marines
Aspiring champions and Aspiring Sorcerers can take terminator armor for 15 points.
When a character from the army accepts a challenge, roll on the Chaos Boon Table immediately (instead of afterward) if the character is fighting in a challenge with a unique character, add +1 to the tens dice for determining the Boon (max of 6).
If your Warlord is an HQ or Lord of War and has purchased a mark from the Chaos Gods, then a single troop unit from this Codex gains the same mark for free. This troop may not have more than one mark, and if the warlord has multiple marks the player chooses which is given before deployment.
Kombibolters also count as a close combat weapon.
Helldrakes have a 90 degree firing arc.
Abbadon is a Lord of War.
Rhinos may be selected as a fast attack choice.
If a character becomes a Daemon Prince via the Dark Apotheosis it retains any wargear options that the Demon Prince could have chosen.
If a model with daemonic possession would consume a vehicle it is transporting, that vehicle suffers a glancing hit instead.
Ahriman may take powers from the divination school
Use the basic stat line for rhino based tanks you already have access to from the codex spacemarine book, however, your optional upgrades remain the same.
Hellbrutes receive +1 attack and may be fielded in units of up to 3
All units that begin the game in terminator armor have their points reduced by 5 each

Chaos Daemons
If your entire army is composed of daemons with the same Daemonic alignment you may treat a roll of 7 on the warpstorm as the attack power associated with your god.
Fateweaver is a Lord of War.

Tau
A smart missile system is 5 points more expensive than the current model.
Cadre fireblades may purchase one piece of support wargear.
Aun’va is a Lord of War.
Devilfish may be selected as a fast attack choice.
Vespids have Rending in melee.
Fire Warriors may not take haywire grenades, but sergeant level characters may for the points listed.
Replace skyfire warlord trait with the following: “The warlord may nominate one unit that successfully arrived from Reserves, that unit is places into ongoing reserves.
Tau Hammerheads that do not take the submunition upgrade may make their railcannons strength D for 30 points.

Eldar
Eldar jetbikes only give a 4+ armor save
Scatterlasers cost 5 points more than shuriken cannons wherever they may be chosen as an upgrade.
The Wraithnight is 395 points
Warp Spiders may only use their flicker jump special rules once per player turn and may not use it against overwatch.
The warlock conclave does not generate warp charges based on its mastery level.
The guardian battlehost and guardian stormhost formations are both able to use storm guardians and guardian defenders for their requisite guardian slots. Only the units currently listed may receive the free upgrades.

Dark Eldar
Hellions can use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
Wyches get their agile invulnerable save during the assault phase, not just the combat sub phase.
Units equipped with combat drugs count the turn as being one higher on the power from pain table
Named characters from the 5th edition codex may be used for the point totals listed with the following changes.
Asdrubael Vect: has the labyrinthine cunning warlord trait and an additional roll on any warlord trait table in the BRB
Lady Malys: roll twice on the warlord trait table in the dark elder codex
Duke Ssliscus: has the towering arrogance warlord trait. He also grants a reroll for scatter for any venom, raider, or ravager that enters play from deepstrike reserves
Baron Sarthonix: has the soul thirst warlord trait and doesn’t change the position of hellions in the force organization chart

Tyranids
Tyranid prime has an additional wound and may take wings (changing its type to jump infantry) for 10 points.
Models that have the instinctive behavior rule that are within Range of a synapse creature gain a +1 to feel no pain (6+ feel no pain if they did not already have the rule) to a maximum of 5+ this is in addition to the normal benefit for being in synapse range.
The Swarmlord is a Lord of War, and his ability to grant special rules to one unit now grants the rule to every unit in range.
Gene stealers have stealth.
Shadows in the warp cause all enemy psykers to manifest psychic powers at a -1 penalty (normally 5+) in addition to the penalty to Leadership.
Hive tyrants that do not take wings may gain a 2+ armor save for 20 points.
Pyrovores breath weapon gains the torrent special rule

Adepta Sorroritas
Saint Celestine is a Lord of War.
Canoness is 5 points cheaper.
Sisters Repentia gain Crusader.
The Rhino and Immolator may be selected as fast attack options.
The penitent engine has hatred.
The exorcist fires snapshots at BS2 and may be fielded in units of 1-3

Astra Militarum
Commisar Yarick is a Lord of War.
Chimera, Taurox and Taurox Primes may be selected as fast attack choices.
When a conscript unit is removed as a casualty, an identical unit goes into ongoing reserve on a 4+.
The taurox prime has the command vehicle trait
Rough riders have an additional wound each
Vox casters give the following benefit: if a command squad and the target of an order it is issuing are both equipped with vox casters, add 12 inches to the maximum command range and the units do not require line of sight

Militarum Tempestas
Any unit embarked in a flyer chosen from this detachment, and any units placed in deep strike reserves may begin arriving from reserves starting in turn one. They must be rolled for normally.
The taurox prime has the command vehicle trait
Gain the benefit of vox casters listed for astra militarum above

Orks
Cybork body gives a +1 to feel no pain rolls (or a 6+ feel no pain, if the model doesn’t already have feel no pain).
The Gorkanaught and Morkanaught add 35 points to their profile, but become superheavy walkers with 6 hull points.
Kustom Megadreds from Forgeworld have 4 hull points instead of 3.
Lootas may take a looted wagon as a dedicated transport.
Battlewagons are 90 points, looted wagons and trukks are 25 points.

Spacewolves, blood angels, and grey knights
Use the basic stat line for rhino based tanks you already have access to from the codex spacemarine book. Your optional upgrades remain the same.
Dreadnaughts gain +1 attack. Spacewolf dreadnaughts gain counter attack. Blood angel dreadnaughts gain furious charge.
All units that begin the game in terminator armor have their points reduced by 5 each
Blood angel scouts use the stat line and point values from codex spacemarine
Wolfscouts gain stealth

Necrons
The canoptic harvest formation gives feel no pain instead of reanimation protocols
Necron wraiths are toughness 4

These fix most of the balance issues I've seen, what do you think?

Mozzamanx wrote:
Generally speaking I don't have a problem with the abilities in the book, I simply feel they are not being paid for. A Wraithguard with 'D' isn't inherently wrong, but having it as a Troops choice and cheaper than a Terminator certainly is.

They're no longer able to be taken as Troops

When list-building, just take 75% of the points limit. That's what I've been doing to balance things out when I'm playing against CSM and IG.

The internal balance of the codex is pretty good, so I think just applying a handicap to the total points of your army list is probably the best approach to balancing them in casual play. Other factions need per-unit points adjustments.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
Generally speaking I don't have a problem with the abilities in the book, I simply feel they are not being paid for. A Wraithguard with 'D' isn't inherently wrong, but having it as a Troops choice and cheaper than a Terminator certainly is.

They're no longer able to be taken as Troops

However they are mandatory in a Wraith Host formation...so that's kind of a wash.

But their maximum threat range is 18" and you must purchase 3 squads of them minimum in that formation.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
But their maximum threat range is 18" and you must purchase 3 squads of them minimum in that formation.

Oh what a burden! Three squads of Wraithguard, with a Wraithseer giving a bonus, and a Wraithknight as part of the formation.

The only thing that is a "but" in that formation is the Wraithlord, and that's because Wraithlords are relatively pathetic compared to Wraithguard since Wraithguard get access to Strength D but Wraithlords don't.

increase the cost of wraithknights.

increase the cost of the heavy weapon upgrades on the jetbikes.

apart from that its not too broken compared to the other 7e codices with formations.

I still say no scatterlasers on bikes. Eldar can already field too many of the best weapon in the game hands down.

Martel732 wrote:
I still say no scatterlasers on bikes. Eldar can already field too many of the best weapon in the game hands down.

It clearly should have been "one in three" jetbikes could take Scatter Lasers.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I still say no scatterlasers on bikes. Eldar can already field too many of the best weapon in the game hands down.

It clearly should have been "one in three" jetbikes could take Scatter Lasers.

That's fine and dandy, but I don't think they need them at all. One in three shuriken cannons is plenty.

Mozzamanx wrote:
.

Aspect Warriors- If we've established that WS5/BS5 is acceptable, just make it part of the base profile and adjust costs accordingly.
Formation bonuses changed to something less significant.

Craftworld Warhost- No way that 12 Wraithknights are justified . Simply move them to their own slot apart from the Wraith Constructs and impose a limit, or introduce a 'tax' of Spiritseers and Wraiths to unlock them.

I totally forgot about those formations.

The aspect formations, I've played with and against them its not a big deal.

In 1850 you can only get 5 wraithknights, but I agree. Generally all codices should be LOW is LOW. So, one reguardless of formation options.

D-flamers are only a problem when you add in a Archon with webway portal. but yes I agree the last edition distort special rule was just fine.

Eldar and DE should not be Battle Brothers. If IG and CSM aren't BBs for fluff reasons (i.e., traitor guard), I'm really not sure why Eldar and DE should be BBs, plus it would cut down on a lot of the problem people have with D-scythes.

There are just a few things that need to change. Then I would un-shelve my Eldar.

Wraithknight should be more costly.

Windrider Jetbikes: one heavy weapon per 3 models.

Wraithguard: D cannons should get nerfed.