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Are the Skyhammer Missiles still the best TAC choice?

Since everything is now cheaper, the other options seem reasonable to consider .

If anything, I'd consider meta-shift to be the reason to consider other options over the point cost difference.

Mathematically, the skyhammers are still your best option for ticking hull points off of anything AV13 or lower, but things like scatbike spam and wraith knights make the AP3 of the typhoon missiles a more and more compelling option.

The lascannon is still probably a bad buy. It still doesn't synergize well with the assault cannon, so without PotMS you're sinking too many points into one shot.

Still keeping the skyhammers on mine. Even with points adjustments the other options are not worth it IMHO.

5 points to upgrade from the HB to skyhammers. You loose the twin link, but gain +2 Str. And 24” of range, but that’s mostly irrelevant. Since you are BS4 against most things, and BS5 against anything with dirt on it, the loss of TLing is not that bad. Well worth the upgrade.

15 points get you the TLLC. This is the best option for when you don’t have time to mess around. You aren’t aiming to strip hull points off, you are going to get one shot, and need to make it count. Good if you know you are going to be outgunned in the air, or if you plan on hitting hard ground targets.

20 points for the TML is a lot for a jack-of-all-trades option. I guess if you are going up against nids it might be OK. S8 AP3 should be enough to deal with FMCs, and you get two shots. I’m not that up on what’s in the sky monster wise, but if it’s got a 3+, this looks a lot better then the skyhammers. If your scatter die is kind to you and your opponent clusters soft troops, the frags could see use (but I doubt it).

Keeping the HBs is an option, but a lousy one IMHO. If you plan on doing a lot of jinking, or flying past things to get rear armor shots with the chin turret, sure.

TLLC is a poor choice probably, only one shot is worse vs av13 and FMC

The TML is only marginally better against most targets but against 3+ armour FMC it's clearly superior and those rare occasions where you can shoot at a cluster of units it really will be amazing

Safe option is probably still the skyhammer

TML seems like a niche role, killing 3+ save FMC or GCs but it's an important niche.

The assault cannon is decent but not amazing in that same niche, but it's much more powerful when hunting light armor or light infantry, which are better targets for the Skyhammer.

Lascannon and assault cannon pair seems like you want to hunt Riptides or Centurions (or maybe AV14) but those targets all seem to be tough to kill with a single Talon.

Im switching both of my stormtalons to the Cyclone (or is it Typhoon) missile launcher.

I was running the skyhammer and was really not getting what I wanted out of it. But I think having the option to fire on armor or infantry in the form of the two types of missiles is a big benefit.

 Icculus wrote:
Im switching both of my stormtalons to the Cyclone (or is it Typhoon) missile launcher.

I was running the skyhammer and was really not getting what I wanted out of it. But I think having the option to fire on armor or infantry in the form of the two types of missiles is a big benefit.

Cyclone and Typhoon launchers are identical; just heavy 2 missile launchers.

Frag missiles are just bad. I regret every one I toss downrange. Even in a perfect scenario, you are going to get what, 3-4 guys under the small blast, and then you need to roll to wound and save. Seeing that it’s only S4, about half those hits are not wounding most things, and they are going to get their saves. That’s a lot of dice rolling, even in optimal conditions, to still kill 1, maybe 2, guys. Or just toss a krack missile out, and probably kill your one guy.

The TML is still not bad. A pair of S8 AP3 shots is going to cause some harm. I just don’t think it’s worth the upcharge.

Opinions, obviously, vary. I don’t think any of the options are “trap” choices. There are benefits to all of them. The HBs might be a little weak, but I could see all of them getting some use.

IMO the TML is now the best option for the secondary weapon. It experienced a significant drop in price and the target meta has changed drastically.

Think of your weapon choices in the context of targets that matter. Against air targets the only flyer that cannot be completely ignored while still winning the game is ultimately FMCs (ie flyrants and daemons). Heldrakes don't get enough turns of damage to win a game anymore and vendettas, etc. are too pricey and cannot score. Thus the only flyers you need to actually kill are ones with a 3+ armour save. You might be thinking "But they can jink!" but if they jink then they will loose the ability to win the other player the game as they are no longer hurting your scoring units. Thus getting FMC to jink all gave long is usually almost as good as killing them.

How about ground targets? Against vehicles these two weapons are more or less a wash. The TML and skyhammer do similar damage against AV12 and the skyhammer is a bit better against AV11. This would indicate the cheaper skyhammer is better. However what units are the ones that really matter? Do you fear a unit of scatbikes or a razorback. Are dreadnoughts more powerful than wraithknights? The truth is that the majority of stuff that is really scary has saving throws not AV values. This means that the AP3 of the TML is worth every point. This also matches fairly well with the rending assault cannon which can help punch through targets with high armour saves. Thus we can see that the damage to MEQ and most MC is significantly greater from the TML. Again I usually hear something about cover saves here...which I usually point out that a unit hiding in cover is not moving onto objectives and winning games.

How about against GEQ infantry? IMO 2 small blasts is usually somewhat better than the 3 shots. This is not really because of the damage but rather the ability to slow the unit down due to making them space out. Sometimes an opponent will bunch up sure. However the real benefit is the 50 conscript unit that fails to reach the objective in time to score.

I am not claiming this is the only way to play them but skyhammers are very good but TML IMO are even better.

Stormtalon's are incredibly easy to magnetize, so I would go ahead and build it with that in mind. I don't particularly think it is necessary to make a distinction between the SML and TML in the model, since missiles are missiles.

I think the SML is definitely superior to all other options. It is basically a three shot autocannon with better range. It meshes well with the Assault Cannon (not with its range, unfortunately). Most vehicle flyers seem to be AV 11 or 12, so it makes for good AA fire. The shot count gives it the edge over the TML.

I ran the numbers between the three weapons when paired with the assault cannon.

AV12 they are in essence the same.
AV13, the Skyhammer is the worst but the other two are tied.
AV14 is a strong win for the TLLC.
T6 3+ TML is 20% better then TLLC which is 20% better then Skyhammer.
T8 3+ is the same as AV13
T6 2+ TLLC wins and other two are even.



EDIT: my take away is unless I'm planning on using my Talons to hunt Riptides or Land Raiders, I can leave the TLLC at home as the two missile systems either perform the same or better or are significantly cheaper.

Do you fight nothing but monsterous creatures, flying or otherwise, scatbikes and/or MEQ's? If yes, Typhoon, if no, Skyhammer.

None of the options are bad, but some are better than others.

If you are using Stormtalon to hunt flyers, LC may be good. In the aerial combat, one shot enemy flyer is important. Usually if you just stripe off one or two hull points. The target might fly out of the firing arc and the attacker has to spend several turns to catch it again. If that thing is a Heldrake, just imagine how much havoc it could wreck during these two three turns.