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I am new to Chaos and am working on what/who to get. First off who would be better and or who is more fun to use as a warlord: Abaddon or Kharne? I have many questions on chaos (like Plauge marines or noise marines) for what to use but for now I am looking for a warlord to start out with. Thank you

Kharne, while a phenomenal murderous harbinger of Khorne lacks durability. With a 3+/5++, he can be shot to gak quite easily without the worry of having to focus too much firepower upon him. This could be remedied to an extant if he had a reliable way to deliver him into assault but sadly the CSM codex fails to deliver (Look to Forgeworld for a solution if you really want Kharn).

Abbadon is great... Upon getting him into close combat. He also suffers the problem of being slow although he has the option to deepstrike. Another problem he suffers is his point cost which makes him a significant investment and one that isn't necessarily all that difficult to make disappear off the tabletop.

As far as named HQ's go, I'd lean towards Ahriman or Huron simply because they bring more than just themselves to the table as they both allow D3 infantry units to infiltrate. Typhus is another I've seen played a bit with his ability to allow you to bring a zombie horde to the table.

That aside, if you want a Chaos Lord who brings bountiful amounts of slaughter to the table, a Chaos Lord with the MoK and SoC upon a juggernaut with AoBF accompanied by either spawn or bikers (people lean towards spawn here) is great. The HQ himself is fairly cheap, brings AP2 goodness held within a bountiful number of attacks to the table, is respectively tough with T5 and a 4++ and an additional wound, and is fairly fast with 12" movement.

A nurgle lord on a bike will have T6 and then with SoC will have a 4++ making him a tough cookie to crack.

Tzeentch lord with SoC upon a bike or Disc will have a 3++ and T5 (the disc grants +1 attack as well)

Slaanesh Lord with SoC upon a bike and then attached to a squad of slaaneshi bikers with IoE will have a 4++, T5 and a 5+ FNP as long as the icon bearer lives.

If you're worried about survivability, the Crimson Slaughter supplement is worth looking at at less as it has an artifact - daemonheart - which provides a 2+ and IWND which can greatly boost the survival rate of any lord at the price of not having access to the artifacts within the CSM codex.

You are bound to run into problems when your beatstick hq costs as much as a land raider. And even more problems when you need to double the cost in order to get him into combat.

It's also a problem when your beatstick hq will die to the first powerfist or missile launcher to hit him.

All the options King Pariah said are far more viable. They are both more mobile, tougher or cheaper.

If it's a toss up between Abaddon and Kharne, then go with Kharne.

He costs less and can reliably dish out more wounds per turn. The fact he's not in terminator armor is important because of rules around sweeping advances.

I get the point that he's not as durable as some other commanders, and believe this is not really that important. Attach him to some other unit for ablative wounds and run him.

Kharn
Although Abaddon is an eternal warrior and has a Daemon sword that may dish out 10 attacks he is too expensive and only fits in a land raider

Kharn is cheap he rides in a rhino and is hitting all the time he has armourbane, he gets an extra attack added every roll of a 6 and really its one of the only HQs I know that can take out an imperial knight with ease


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But for me, running a Daemon Prince with a black mace makes them S10 with a possible 9 attacks, T6 Nurgle makes him just as tough and stronger than Abaddon for 40 points less

If you splash the points however, you can have a Flying Nurgle Psyker level 3 with a Black Mace S10 T6 A5-9 so you are flying and instant killing T5 Terminators by round 2
This however makes him well over 250 points and that's getting into Imperial Knight and Super Heavy cost

So for me I choose:
Nurgle Daemon Prince
Kharn
Abaddon

If you are wanting a HQ to unlock Elite troop choices then I highly recommend a Nurgle Daemon prince with a black mace and a Nurgle Lord to unlock Plauge Marines

 KillMaimBurn96 wrote:

Kharn is cheap he rides in a rhino and is hitting all the time he has armourbane, he gets an extra attack added every roll of a 6 and really its one of the only HQs I know that can take out an imperial knight with ease

Ummm... Kharn doesn't get any extra attacks by scoring 6's. He is a beast on CC thou and since it is pretty cheap it is a great option to take as your warlord. Also it gives hate to whatever unit he joins.

Kharn is what you want...unless you fight someone with a power weapon and you get instant killed
So stay away from Space Marines and go for Abaddon coz you get Preferred Enemy towards the Imperium, I think it's Blood Angels

 KillMaimBurn96 wrote:
Kharn
Although Abaddon is an eternal warrior and has a Daemon sword that may dish out 10 attacks he is too expensive and only fits in a land raider

Kharn is cheap he rides in a rhino and is hitting all the time he has armourbane, he gets an extra attack added every roll of a 6 and really its one of the only HQs I know that can take out an imperial knight with ease


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But for me, running a Daemon Prince with a black mace makes them S10 with a possible 9 attacks, T6 Nurgle makes him just as tough and stronger than Abaddon for 40 points less

If you splash the points however, you can have a Flying Nurgle Psyker level 3 with a Black Mace S10 T6 A5-9 so you are flying and instant killing T5 Terminators by round 2
This however makes him well over 250 points and that's getting into Imperial Knight and Super Heavy cost

So for me I choose:
Nurgle Daemon Prince
Kharn
Abaddon

If you are wanting a HQ to unlock Elite troop choices then I highly recommend a Nurgle Daemon prince with a black mace and a Nurgle Lord to unlock Plauge Marines

The Daemon Prince is only S10 with rolling the right powers and having them cast successfully. More importantly though,

Nurgle on a Daemon Prince does NOT give +1 toughness like the mark does. It gives shrouded. Which is arguably better because you can mink for a 2+ cover save out in the open.

Abbadon is one of the best CC heroes in the game, and can take pretty much everything on himself. Getting him there is the problem however, and there is no real answer for this one. You can deep strike him, but you better bring enough terminator bodyguards to make sure he doesn't die before you get to go again.

Dreadclaw all the way.

So what about Typhus, he's a decent HQ? I have been looking into the zombie list with him and it seems fun. I am trying to figure out a nice and easy way to get into chaos. Though I wanna fund a couple fun ways to play with some different HQs.

 Greyguy13 wrote:
So what about Typhus, he's a decent HQ? I have been looking into the zombie list with him and it seems fun. I am trying to figure out a nice and easy way to get into chaos. Though I wanna fund a couple fun ways to play with some different HQs.

He's honestly ONLY worth it if you want to run a bunch of zombies AND Plague Marines. Otherwise, a Crimson Slaughter Nurgle Lord is better in most situations. Typhus isn't bad, but he suffers the same problems all foot CSM HQ's suffer.

Typhus is a strong character, and Kharn isn't *terrible* either (he's better than Abaddon). You just have to pick your targets with him because he's kind of helpless against anything with a strong invuln. Them having AP3 or AP2 isn't usually a big deal because you'll go first most of them time and mulch them. A 4++ or better can really ruin your day though. That said, Kharn isn't really a duelist character- he exists to mulch through squads, and it's something he's exceedingly good at. If you take him, make sure the squad has a sergeant you can toss into challenges so that Kharn can eat the rest of the squad.

Another excellent option is Huron. He's competitively priced, good at everything (but not great) and can provide some much needed utility with master of deception.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Typhus is a strong character, and Kharn isn't *terrible* either (he's better than Abaddon).

I'd be interested to know how you come to this conclusion. Is it Abaddon's huge point cost? Also the champion isn't so necessary in this edition as Kharn can just mow down his opponent and have the excess wounds spill out into the unit itself, potentially gaining a useful boon (yeah, I know he's probably just gonna end up spawn anyway).

Plus, you know Kharn is supposed to be a pretty fun guy...

Kharn will destroy almost anyone in CC and he can destroy vehicles /walkers(knights). That's right, He can destroy a knight in CC, Seen it done many, many times. The only reliable delivery is a landraider, and I know this is a debated topic, but he can hit invisible units(if you are with friends , shouldn't be an issue, if with your typical TFG, good luck with a 1 hr argument). Abby is a beast as well, but kharn is the cheap version for CC wreck.

MarsNZ wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Typhus is a strong character, and Kharn isn't *terrible* either (he's better than Abaddon).

I'd be interested to know how you come to this conclusion. Is it Abaddon's huge point cost? Also the champion isn't so necessary in this edition as Kharn can just mow down his opponent and have the excess wounds spill out into the unit itself, potentially gaining a useful boon (yeah, I know he's probably just gonna end up spawn anyway).

He is better due to the point cost and he being able to deliver as much dmg if not even more dmg than abaddon, but is a lot less durable, however how less durable he is isn't worth the abaddon points. His warlord trait is better than abby's as well.

On the challenge issue, even if the extra wounds spill it's better not having him in challenge due to any trick under the sleeve your enemy might have, reduced T, 3++ invul, FnP, etc. Being out of challenge allows him to deliver as much dmg with the benefit of being able to roll LoS.

In general, the named CSM HQs are pretty weak with Huron being the exception for his price and guaranteed access to the Infiltration warlord trait.

Generally, I run 3 types of HQs with my CSM. Each one of them goes in a Spawn pack.

Lord, Juggernaut, Mark of Khorne, Axe of Blind Fury, Sigil of Corruption: 170

Lord, Bike, Mark of Nurgle, Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption, Blight Grenades: 170 [optionally add from Crimson Slaughter Horns of the Slaughterer and Daemon Heart...bumps him to 210 points but now he's got a 2+, IWND, Rage, and Furious Charge]

Sorcerer, Bike, Force Staff (since I roll on Biomancy with him usually, and Iron Arm makes him AP2), Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar: 170


The Juggerlord goes with unmarked Spawn while the other two go with Nurgle Spawn. You can make H2H work in 7th, but you need speed. The thing that ALL of the named characters struggle from is a lack of that. If I was going to run a named character in a truly competitive environment, I'd take Necrosius (Forge World) for his special rule that provides Strength buffs to zombies. Vraks zombies are already S4, so rolling with 50 S5 zombies is kind of ridiculous, and they're marginally faster than Typhus zombies due to the way their movement rules work.

I've only ever played against Kharn and Abaddon but having faced them with Marines, Guard and Tyranids, both are nasty. Abaddon has a tendency to just shrug off all the AP1/2 shots I send his way. Then he charges into stuff and wrecks face. That said, he also has a habit of rolling on the boon table, turning into a spawn (FAQ'd and then 7th removed FAQ) and then dying to bolter fire. Kharn doesn't have the 2+ save or Eternal Warrior so, yeah he's easier to kill by himself but he's murderous in close combat. I can vouch for the person above that mentioned even Imperial Knights will struggle against him. I charged Dante and some Sanguinary Guard into him and they all died. Astorath and half a dozen Death Company? Dead. Furioso Dreadnoughts get shredded. Now that Khorne Daemonkin is out, a buddy of mine runs Kharn with a Spartan Assault tank and 20+ Bloodletters. With the crazy good Deny the Witch and 20 ablative wounds, he has mobility and can survive against almost anything. There is literally only one special character I've brought that can consistently murder Kharn and that's the Melyrant. Hive Tyrant with wings, Old adversary, lashwish+boneswords, adrenal glands. WS8, init 8, Str 6, hits on 3s, wounds on 2s and rerolls all 1s to hit and wound with instant death on 6s. That combat only lasts one round cause if the tyrant fails to hit and splat Kharn, he's dead.

TL;DR, my money has always been on Kharn for the pure killy and awesome.

Abaddon:
Attach Abaddon to a unit of Slaanesh bikers with an icon of excess.

They give him feel no pain AND their speed lets them trail ahead of Abaddon and help pull him into combat. Also keeps unit majority T5.

Abaddon has a cool warlord trait if you are willing to take a bunch of plasma (doesn't have to be in his unit).

Only has to be warlord if he is in your primary detachment, just pick your warlord out of a different detachment if you don't want Abaddon as leader.

Kharn:
Very killy, but a little fragile. My suggestion is to take someone else as the warlord trait if you are really worried about him dieing.

My experience is Kharn will topple a knight, but it will probably explode him to death as it dies.

I'm going to give Kharne a shot and see how I like him. However I was going through the Daemon codex and I saw a couple of those named big ones. How are they in combat, blood thirster chaps?