Some changes for the Ork codex; "meks" and clan formations

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**Dakkamite**

Been messing around with some homebrew stuff and figured I'd post it up. Got a nice pdf almost ready to go but should let dakka give the rules a once over before I make it.

Two issues I have with the Ork codex are those slotless meks and a lack of clan rules. The meks are the beginnings of a nice idea, but fall short in two ways - one, that theres just meks, nothing else, and two that they're only ever taken bare bones to chump challenges with. So I came up with the "Oddboyz" rules to replace the slotless meks and wonder what you all think

The rules have been designed to work with Zagman's errata - the important ramifications being that the Mob Rule table is gone and replaced more or less with the old rule, and that Cybork FNP stacks with other FNP. Also, some names have been changed - Weirdboys are Weirdbosses, and Painboys are Painbosses, because a) need names for their diminutive counterparts and b) no warband should be led by a -boy!

ODDBOYZ

Spoiler:

The other thing I have been working on was clan rules. I toyed with different ways of doing them - Chapter Tactics, Chaos Marks, or Formations - and ended up going with Formations because they slot so easily into the game as is, and I feel people are less iffy about formation based free benefits as opposed to chapter tactics etc.

The formations follow a bit of a pattern in their optional and mandatory inclusions. Each allows you to take some kind of oddboy beyond normal limits, grants a bonus, and another bonus during the WAAAGH, with the intention that the Ork army works better as long as its warboss is alive and WAAAGHing each turn, but falls apart if otherwise. The Snakebites formation and the Deathskulls formation are a lot wordier than I would like and I'd appreciate any advice on simplifying it, as well as ideas for the formations as a whole

CLAN FORMATIONS

Spoiler:

**Vankraken**

Honestly this is fairly good. Im not sure how balanced each clan formation is with each other (Goffs seem quite good when compared to Deathskulls) but overall the rules seem well written and nothing over the top. For the clan detachments, I think it would be better if the "signature" units had a bonus directly for that unit type. The deathskull lootas for example are required for the army and yet really don't benefit from the rules very much (they rarely get close enough to loot anything in gameplay). In the case of the Deathskull rules I think the looting rule after destroying a unit is amazing but instead of just giving 20pts for upgrades (ork wargear options are rather lacking for some units and you end up needing to swap out models for big shootas or rokkits, etc) let the Ork player pick from a selection of "loot" upgrades to add to a model. Something like unit wide 6+ FNP from a "urty kits", fear from a "ead on a stikk", etc.

I like the oddboyz as they can be easily added to units without taking up all the HQ slots. Their rules seem well written and fairly balanced. Only issue is that the Weirdboy might be too cheap as a warp charge battery.

**Quanar**

Overall, I really like them. A few questions / suggestions:

1) When attaching Oddboys taken as an Elite slot, must they all be attached to the same unit or can they be spread about? Guessing it's the latter, but maybe a bit of clairty?

2) Bloodaxes, Da Ambush rule - how does it affect unit partially in cover? "ignore Overwatch" is also a weird term. Two-birds-one-stone solution: "When a WAAAGH is called, units from this detachment are not slowed or disordered when charging through cover, and wounds from Overwatch may not be allocated to models in cover, exactly as if they were out of Line of Sight from the firing unit."

3) Evil Sunz, Handholds rule - missed a spacebar -> "when carrying a unit fromthis detachment".

I like the reappearance of the old boarding plank rules (Krump Kroozers), and the use of one of the Horus Heresy Legion rules (Goff's Die Fightin') as they are interesting (if unavoidably wordy) concepts.

**War Kitten**

I really like the clan rules, they seem extremely fluff and decently powerful. Nice work

**Dakkamite**

Cheers for the responses guys, keep em coming. When everything is sussed out I'll post up the pdf I'm working on for anyone who wants to use it or parts of it

Vankraken wrote:
Honestly this is fairly good. Im not sure how balanced each clan formation is with each other 1] (Goffs seem quite good when compared to Deathskulls) but overall the rules seem well written and nothing over the top. For the clan detachments, 2] I think it would be better if the "signature" units had a bonus directly for that unit type. The deathskull lootas for example are required for the army and yet really don't benefit from the rules very much (they rarely get close enough to loot anything in gameplay). In the case of the Deathskull rules I think the looting rule after destroying a unit is amazing but instead of just giving 20pts for upgrades (ork wargear options are rather lacking for some units and you end up needing to swap out models for big shootas or rokkits, etc) let the Ork player pick from a selection of "loot" upgrades to add to a model. 3] Something like unit wide 6+ FNP from a "urty kits", fear from a "ead on a stikk", etc.

I like the oddboyz as they can be easily added to units without taking up all the HQ slots. Their rules seem well written and fairly balanced. 4] Only issue is that the Weirdboy might be too cheap as a warp charge battery.

1] Always open to suggestions, I'm very much not sold on my deathskulls and snakebites rules in particular, but anyone with ideas for any clan are more than welcome to post them up

2] Wow, never considered that idea and I like it a lot. I'll figure something, certainly open to suggestions.

3] I didn't like the 20pts thing tbh. I started with something more akin to what you've suggested but ended up changing it out largely so I didn't need to fit a table on the same page as all those other wordy rules (having actual codex sized pages would be such a luxury). Sometimes you just need someone to tell you that the idea you thought was bad is in fact bad. Will change it up, keen on suggestions for loot

4] I very rarely use psychics, because my armies have been Orks and Khorne and the former seems underwhelming and the latter has none. I know very little about psychics and the psychic phase, its very possible that my points costs for the Weirdboy are too low. If you or anyone else wants to suggest a cost I'm happy to go with that. One thing I don't know is if a Weirdboy unit would get a +1 or something for Deny the Witch due to having a psyker as is, and if that should or should not be part of their rules.

When attaching Oddboys taken as an Elite slot, must they all be attached to the same unit or can they be spread about? Guessing it's the latter, but maybe a bit of clairty?

Yes, that can be spread out. Will edit for clarity

2) Bloodaxes, Da Ambush rule - how does it affect unit partially in cover? "ignore Overwatch" is also a weird term. Two-birds-one-stone solution: "When a WAAAGH is called, units from this detachment are not slowed or disordered when charging through cover, and wounds from Overwatch may not be allocated to models in cover, exactly as if they were out of Line of Sight from the firing unit."

Really appreciate your writing up the solution for me, putting that sort of stuff into rules can be difficult and very wordy sometimes and I think your suggestion is excellent

3) Evil Sunz, Handholds rule - missed a spacebar -> "when carrying a unit fromthis detachment".

Noted, will fix it up

**rahxephon**

Painboy seems fine, the mekboy still seems a bit useless, I'd probably make him 10 or something. Weirdboy I'd say should at least be 30. You only get the +1 to deny if its something that targets the unit, I wouldn't care about it that much.

Drillboss I'm not so keen on. I think I kinda see where you're coming from in adding essentially another nob to a unit as they tend to do most of the damage when swinging with a claw. But I can't really see it working thematically. The squad is the nobs crew, another one coming along to run it is intruding on his turf and if the original one lets that happen he's a bit of a pansy. So probably dead. They sound more like something that would be part of a goffs get up; rather than +10 to get a nob, for goffs its +15 for a drillboss. Got the higher Ld, Stubborn, discipline-y goff stuff. Maybe they get +1 to look out sirs or something.

I'll look at the clan stuff later.

**Dakkamite**

I know what your getting at, the whole drillboss profile is straight up just a fluff excuse for two nobs.

The purpose of two nobs however isn't really to double the destructive power of Orks in melee (though that is a useful side effect) but instead to give us a challenge chumper that isn't thematically slowed like the current mek. We really only need one claw to do damage, its just we can't actually swing with that claw unless we have an answer to challenges

If challenges are a method to beat Orks in melee (not that people need the help), game balance dictates that we get tech to counteract that too. If its not a drillboss, it should be another challenge chumper who kind of makes sense. If the drillboss is flat out removed, we'll just end up with the same situation as now - mekboys, heavily laden with orky firepower, being taken only to jump in front of a sergeant and die.

If not a Nob, what about a 'demi-Nob' or whatever you'd call it? One of the boyz who is getting a bit big for his britches but isn't a true nob yet. If he wins a challenge he becomes a proper Nob and the two nobs fight it out after the battle.

**Vankraken**

Ork Yellerz (their priests) could be a character who is added to the unit to inspire the boyz to be more orky and less like cowardly grots. Maybe he can take a leadership test and if it passes it grants a benefit for the unit for that turn (similar to how IG priest operate).

**Dakkamite**

Thats a cool idea. Also suggested in another thread was Bloodaxe Kommissars that grant orders like effects.

If some/each clan had a unique Nob upgrade like that, it would be pretty cool I reckon.

For me, under a perfect Ork codex each mob would have all sorts of added characters, banners etc, because I imagine when its time to fight, each Nob just goes and gets his boyz and whoever happens to be hanging around at the time.

Since you seem a little more clued on to the less commonly known fluff Vankraken, is there a name or a good term that could be used for the demi-Nobz I mentioned earlier?

Edit: Also, does 30pts seem good for the weirdboy? I feel its too high, as you can get the full blown weirdboss for 50 which has +1 level, the ability to roll for powers, and deny the witch etc whenever that actually comes up. However cuz I don't really use psychics much (will with this doc, but haven't so far) I don't put much stock in my ability to price them.

**Quanar**

Dakkamite wrote:
Also, does 30pts seem good for the weirdboy? I feel its too high, as you can get the full blown weirdboss for 50 which has +1 level, the ability to roll for powers, and deny the witch etc whenever that actually comes up. However cuz I don't really use psychics much (will with this doc, but haven't so far) I don't put much stock in my ability to price them.

Several different areas place 1ML at about 25 points, which I think would be right (possibly 20) for the Wierdboy (Inquisitors are ML1 for 30pts, but putting a 'battery' in a Henchman unit is only 10pts. Upgrading a ML1 to a ML2 is 25pts in pretty much all Codexes).

**Dakkamite**

Since rahxephon is one of the three people I actually play against, I gotta suss another chump challenger if the drillboss isn't going to fly.

What do you guys reckon about this;

Ork Upstart
As an Ork fights and wins, the respect of his peers and the rush of victory will trigger massive muscle growth. The Ork will grow larger and stronger until put in their place by an even bigger Ork. Upstarts tend to hang around their original mob until they grow too large for the ruling Nob to not notice, at which point they fight to the death, or the Upstart leaves to form their own mob

WS: 4 BS: 2 S: 4 T: 4 W: 1 I: 2 A: 2 Ld: 7 Sv: 6+

Wargear: As Unit

Type: As Unit, but also (Character)

Options
-Eavy Armour for 4pts
-Big Choppa for 5pts

Special Rule: Up and Comin'

Each unit of Boyz, Tankbustas, Stormboyz, Warbikers or Kommandos which takes a Nob leader may also upgrade one of its members to an Upstart for +5 points. The first time an upstart wins a challenge, it will immediately gain +1 wound and +1 attack, effectively becoming a Nob in its own right.

**rahxephon**

I'd rather the drillboss than the upstart. Effectively its just something to jump in a challenge and die which mekboys can already do. Also bookkeeping.

Some drivel...

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot I was gonna come back about the formation/clans

Spoiler:

Goffs look fine, although I'd consider either having a higher min squad number or a min unit size (e.g 20) as currently its the easiest way to get endless waaaghs by a fair margin. Also not sure about the FNP as iirc it combos with the errata cybork or something to give 3+ with a painboy. Then again, don't really get any invul saves so...

Snakebites I'm unsure, could be something I'd have to see run. Feel like it could be a little bit cheap perhaps, but would only be by a point or so. 12ppm for S5 2A 12" mov... Can really only see them being run one way; mounted, big choppas, outflank. 15 for 210ish with kitted nob, hard to say really. Should have the grots ride squigs like fantasy squig hoppers. Laffs ensue.

Bad moons seem okay. Does killing the unit via gun nutz cause the charge to fail? Id guess so. The rending and gets hot seems fine for a turn, but if you have endless waaaghs it makes me a bit iffy about it.

Deathskulls do seem the weakest. They also have a bit of bookkeeping which can be nice to avoid, but they look like they'd mainly be taken for the laughs so why not. Say boys squads can take a deffgun instead of a bigshoota for 5pts (it'll probs be snapfiring the whole time), make it interesting. Just put them on everything, killa kans fricken blow so say they can take a deffgun. BS3 whoop. Deffdreds can take 4... idk (you'd probably only hit about as much as a 2 TL autocannon SM dread, they're 120pts for comparisons sake)

Blood axes also seem a bit weak. Outflanking tankbustas could be hurtful though. I'd like to see something to make kommandos more useful. Not sure what but having scout will help a little.

Evil sunz look the strongest. I'm guessing the handholds doesn't allow an additional bulky model to embark? Does the supa charged charge bonus combo with boarding plank? The added inches could be a bit much, but really it's either that or 1". As it is, on average a trukk squad will reliably charge something 24" away which is pretty far. The stormboys would be nearing 30 on a waaagh.

Overall looks pretty decent. Really the only thing I could see being an issue is how easy it is to get constant waaaghs from the goffs, and a lot of the other clans have waaagh benefits they could easily gain constantly.

**Dakkamite**

Random stuff

Spoiler:

Formation stuff

Spoiler:

**rahxephon**

Just see how it goes, can only speculate so much. And nah, haven't got any squigs.

True, cavalry doesn't get any toughness, save or jink bonuses. And guns.

Could make the kommandos have objective secured.

Also does the supa ammo work with the gun nutz shots? If it does, in one turn of shooting then charging a unit of 30 shootas will have 8-9 gets hot casualties on average. Pretty high, maybe leave the supa ammo off the gun nutz as as many melt as hit. An alternative to the upgraded shootas blood moons have, you could just say they can take shootas for free as they're rich or something. It's fine as is but its a bit more rolling for gets hot and rending, so just an option.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And there's also overwatch ^^

**geargutz**

i like the bloodaxe "watch your back" rule. it is fluffy, but maybe make an exception to the rule in the case that ghaz is in your army, since ghaz will work with these sneeky gitz and he knows they wouldnt dare cross him.

just a wild crazy rule for bloodaxes or bad moons
"ok, itz a deal, but only if ya give me yer hat". an enemy opponent can role a d6 for each bloodaxe or badmoons unit before the start of your game, on a 6 he successfully bribes the bloodaxe or badmoons unit to not charge in with the rest of the ladz (the unit is removed after deployment as a casualty) at the expense of one victory point given to the ork player. on the roll of 1 the bloodaxes or badmoons were successfully bribed but at the last second decided that they would rather get stuck in anyway. the unit is put in reserves and the ork player still receives the victory point.

for the deathskullz, here are some ideas for rules
-"just some pre battle lootin", for any vehicle squadron taken in the formation you can add an additional vehicle for free. (or allow vehicle squadrons to have one additional vehicle past the max).
-"lootin spree" infantry units gain objective secured.
-"id rather be lootin" any units can either give up their shooting phase or movement phase to gain a loot counter. (this would really work if you changed to the loot counter idea from vankraken...my ideas for upgrades below).

loot counter table (i dont know if all these are equal value, but for right now they are all at default cost of one loot counter each)
1.vehicle upgrades
-repair a hull point
-negate a damage table effect
-a nonblast/template weapon gains twin linked and gets hot (if a 1 is rolled initially then the weapon gets hot and no rerolls are allowed)
-maybe general vehicle upgrades

2.nonvehicle upgrades (specify which model gets this upgrade)
-doks tools
-bigchoppa
-mek tools
-gitfinda (for whole squad)
-waaagh banner
-krak grenades (for whole squad)

3.shared upgrades (specify what model gets this upgrade, if its a vehicle then the vehicle can nominate to which weapon they strapped this extra weapon on, the weapon will gain the fire ark of the weapon its strapped to)
-skorcha
-deffgun
-kmb
-bigshoota
-rokkit launcha
-look for other weapons that would either work for vehicles or non vehicles (these looted weapon can be destroyed through "weapon destroyed")

**FratHammer**

I love the clans you've done!
My one plead is that you create Freebootaz rules!

**Dakkamite**

I'd considered it, but couldn't really think of a defining theme that wasn't already done with Bad Moonz.

**Grimmor**

Ill be honest, the Mek with a Kustom Mega Blasta is nice, btw you have it so Meks can grab one for Free. Not sure if that was intentional, sweet though.

Gotta say that i love the Blood Axes

**Dakkamite**

Yeah its intentional. The idea of a mekboy coming to the battlefield with no weapons to chump a challenge is a bit immersion breaking. This way at least it sort of makes sense that he's there, even if you still only ever take him to chump the challenges

**Grimmor**

Dakkamite wrote:
Yeah its intentional. The idea of a mekboy coming to the battlefield with no weapons to chump a challenge is a bit immersion breaking. This way at least it sort of makes sense that he's there, even if you still only ever take him to chump the challenges

Nice, S 8 AP 2 go!!