Cuomo's aide shot and killed at parade in Brooklyn

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**timetowaste85**

So, this just happened yesterday in Brooklyn. Cuomo is pushing for anti-gun legislation. Last I'd heard it was critical condition, but this article said he died. Sorry, on a cell phone, so copy pasting full article isn't an option for me right now. Apologies to the work blocked.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/55eda582e4b093be51bbcd79

**Dreadclaw69**

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34179566

Violence before the West Indian Day Parade in New York has left one man dead and a top aide to the state governor fighting for his life.

Carey Gabay, a lawyer working for Governor Andrew Cuomo, was caught in crossfire at a pre-parade event early on Monday.

A 24-year-old man was also shot and killed in a different Brooklyn neighbourhood in a separate incident.

Last year, a man was killed and several wounded near the parade.

This time the violence erupted at the J'Ouvert march, a pre-parade celebration which starts before dawn.

At 03:40 local time (08:40 GMT), the 43-year-old Mr Gabay, first deputy counsel to the governor, was struck in the head by a bullet as he walked down the street with his brother. He was in a critical condition.

Mr Cuomo described him as a beautiful man who was giving back to his community. Mr Gabay's wife is expecting their first child.

"I'm the governor of the state of New York, and there's not a thing I can do," Mr Cuomo told reporters after visiting his employee at Kings County Hospital.

"There's not a thing I can say, and there's nothing I can do. And sometimes it just hurts."

No arrests have made been, police said.

The main parade itself went ahead on Monday, attended by thousands including Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose wife Chirlane McCray is of Caribbean descent.

A terrible loss of life, especially as his child will never know their father. Given Mr. Cuomo's politics I don't think anyone is surprised at his calls for yet more gun control.

**Co'tor Shas**

And the thing is, that if this was a nutter motivated by the gun control push, that it's just proving his point for him.

**Grey Templar**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
And the thing is, that if this was a nutter motivated by the gun control push, that it's just proving his point for him.

Not really. If anything, it proves that there is a legitimate need for self-defense.

Naturally it doesn't excuse murder.

**Co'tor Shas**

Grey Templar wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
And the thing is, that if this was a nutter motivated by the gun control push, that it's just proving his point for him.

Not really. If anything, it proves that there is a legitimate need for self-defense.

Naturally it doesn't excuse murder.

....
You have obviously never heard of a thing called "politics" where sides spin what happens to their advantage.

**Grey Templar**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
And the thing is, that if this was a nutter motivated by the gun control push, that it's just proving his point for him.

Not really. If anything, it proves that there is a legitimate need for self-defense.

Naturally it doesn't excuse murder.

....
You have obviously never heard of a thing called "politics" where sides spin what happens to their advantage.

Well duh, spin happens.

**Dreadclaw69**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
And the thing is, that if this was a nutter motivated by the gun control push, that it's just proving his point for him.

Motive has not yet been established. I believe that this parade has a history of random violence occurring during the festivities.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Latest reports indicate that a MAC10 was used, and that there was a shoot out between rival gangs. While it is sad that the aide was killed it is also very lucky that no one else was hurt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/08/nyregion/cuomo-administration-lawyer-is-shot-in-the-head.html?ref=nyregion&_r=1

**xraytango**

So the legitimate question here would be, "would gun control legislation actually have stopped this, considering it was a shoot-out between two criminal elements?"

Criteria: Law abiding citizens follow the law (a bit self-defining there, sorry). Criminals are criminals because they are the antithesis of a law abiding citizen, hence they ignore/flaunt the law.

My take is that bad guys will do bad things no matter how many laws are on the books.

Sounds like the vic was a real stand-up sort of a fellow, hopefully the perps get their comeuppance.

**Hordini**

xraytango wrote:
So the legitimate question here would be, "would gun control legislation actually have stopped this, considering it was a shoot-out between two criminal elements?"

Probably not, especially considering New York already has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

**Co'tor Shas**

NYC has severe gun problems (which is to say guns in the hands of criminals). Legislation that went in, what, 2 years ago probably wouldn't have even put a dent in it, even if it were all guns are illigal.

**Dreadclaw69**

xraytango wrote:
So the legitimate question here would be, "would gun control legislation actually have stopped this, considering it was a shoot-out between two criminal elements?"

The firearm used was a fully automatic weapon. I doubt very much that the perpetrator of this act had acquired it lawfully and filed the correct paperwork with the ATF. Furthermore it appears that there was a total of 30 rounds fired from a number of weapons, each in different hands. That also negates an argument that reduced magazine capacity would have prevented this loss of life. Would a background check have worked? Given that this was a Class 3 firearm, without the correct paperwork being filed, and in the possession of a criminal gang (and likely by someone with a criminal history) I can't see this firearm going through an NICS check.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hordini wrote:
Probably not, especially considering New York already has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

Correct. And the SAFE Act has been far from the success that the Governor hoped that it would be.

**djphranq**

Okay... I'm out of touch... I thought this was about an aide of Rivers Cuomo of Weezer.

**Silent Puffin?**

Someone gets killed with a machine pistol and the usual Dakkites use this as an excuse to bang the 'gun control is useless' drum. Stay classy Dakka.

**Grey Templar**

[MOD EDIT - "FTFY" style 'quoting' is a major no-no here. - Alpharius]

Equally applicable

**Dreadclaw69**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Someone gets killed with a machine pistol and the usual Dakkites use this as an excuse to bang the 'gun control is useless' drum. Stay classy Dakka.

I am sorry that you mis-read out intentions. As the Governor who's aide was killed injected the topic into the discussion from the outset I think that any discussion would have touched on it at some stage. I would like to think that my comment came across as intended, which was an honest examination of the topic - not simply 'gun control is useless'

Do you feel that Governor Cuomo was right to use this event as an excuse for more gun control?

**Vaktathi**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Someone gets killed with a machine pistol and the usual Dakkites use this as an excuse to bang the 'gun control is useless' drum. Stay classy Dakka.

If someone is brazen enough to be using an actual machine pistol (if that is actually the case), then some would say the point was proven rather well. Automatic weapons like machine pistols are illegal to possess under New York City law, New York State law, and extremely tightly regulated at the Federal level. Someone's looking at felony charges from every conceivable level of government just for mere possession, enough to send them away for most of the rest of their life, not to mention actually committing murder with one.

**Breotan**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Someone gets killed with a machine pistol and the usual Dakkites use this as an excuse to bang the 'gun control is useless' drum. Stay classy Dakka.

Okay.

<sarcasm>

I don't believe any of this. Guns are almost impossible to get permits for in New York and there's no way they'd give them to gang members. Therefore no "rival gang members" could possibly be using guns in any sort of shootout as that would be illegal. Gun control is effective and it works.

</sarcasm>

**Hordini**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Someone gets killed with a machine pistol and the usual Dakkites use this as an excuse to bang the 'gun control is useless' drum. Stay classy Dakka.

xraytango asked the legitimate question of whether or not stricter gun control would or could have prevented this, and some of us did our best to answer the question in good faith. That hardly qualifies as "the usual Dakkaites used this as an excuse to bang the 'gun control is useless' drum."

I'm guessing you're not very familiar with how incredibly tightly regulated actual machine pistols already are in the US.

I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't an actual full auto MAC-10, but rather a semi-automatic version of it. I could be wrong though.

**Grey Templar**

Yeah, it could easily be a semi-auto version. People who aren't familiar with what full-auto actually sounds like can easily mistake a semi with a fast trigger finger for what they think full auto sounds like.

Especially since a full auto MAC-10 would basically empty its entire mag in less than a second. You'd never ever hear the individual rounds being fired. All you'd hear would be a single "BRRT".

**Dreadclaw69**

Hordini wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't an actual full auto MAC-10, but rather a semi-automatic version of it. I could be wrong though.

Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, it could easily be a semi-auto version. People who aren't familiar with what full-auto actually sounds like can easily mistake a semi with a fast trigger finger for what they think full auto sounds like.

Especially since a full auto MAC-10 would basically empty its entire mag in less than a second. You'd never ever hear the individual rounds being fired. All you'd hear would be a single "BRRT".

The investigators identified the firearm used as a MAC-10 after it was recovered.

**Co'tor Shas**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Correct. And the SAFE Act has been far from the success that the Governor hoped that it would be.

It depends on what your think the purpose was. The way I see it, it defiantly fulfilled it purpose (getting the D's riled up).

On a side note, no super-strict gun control is ever really going to work without it being nation-wide (at least without checkpoints on the boarder crossings) and even then it would take even longer for the criminal supply to dry up. I'd say even if the 2nd amendment was repealed and UK like gun laws were put into effect, it'd be at least a decade until we'd be anywhere near to wear the UK is now in terms of the ambient gun supply.

**DarkLink**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
And the thing is, that if this was a nutter motivated by the gun control push, that it's just proving his point for him.

Motive has not yet been established. I believe that this parade has a history of random violence occurring during the festivities.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Latest reports indicate that a MAC10 was used, and that there was a shoot out between rival gangs. While it is sad that the aide was killed it is also very lucky that no one else was hurt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/08/nyregion/cuomo-administration-lawyer-is-shot-in-the-head.html?ref=nyregion&_r=1

If so, that's the sad irony of the situation. Gang violence is the core problem, but that will get ignored in favor of more politically popular and emotionally appealing anti-gun measures, which in turn will get gridlocked in the political system and even if they do pass, won't have any meaningful effect on the gang violence, which just leaves the whole thing open to happening again.

**Dreadclaw69**

DarkLink wrote:
If so, that's the sad irony of the situation. Gang violence is the core problem, but that will get ignored in favor of more politically popular and emotionally appealing anti-gun measures, which in turn will get gridlocked in the political system and even if they do pass, won't have any meaningful effect on the gang violence, which just leaves the whole thing open to happening again.

Actually blaming gang violence means that a politician's record on crime is open to scrutiny, and that their previous claims on lowering crime were not true/effective as they had claimed. It also requires time, effort, energy, and finances. Also the inevitable backlash against law enforcement, and the politician who proposed cracking down on crime. Given that this outbreak of gang violence occurred during a West Indian cultural celebration it appears that the perpetrators may have been from a minority population which may bring the issues of racism into the discussion.

Instead it is much easier, more expedient, and cheaper to rail against something that you know won't work - but that your base appreciates and you can always blame the Evil NRA when the newest "common sense" gun control measure, that would have done nothing to prevent the attack, gets nowhere.

**DarkLink**

On a side note, just as many people were stabbed as shot, it looks like. The lawyer was shot and killed, two others were moderately/mildy injured by gunshots, one person was stabbed to death, another was stabbed and badly wounded but is stable, and another had less critical stab wounds.

**LordofHats**

Hordini wrote:
xraytango wrote:
So the legitimate question here would be, "would gun control legislation actually have stopped this, considering it was a shoot-out between two criminal elements?"

Probably not, especially considering New York already has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

IF there are gonna be gun control laws, they have to be at the national level, as the 'Iron Pipeline' and other trafficking lines largely rendered the idea of state by state gun control utterly meaningless. All New York's strict gun control laws have produced is a lucrative business in shipping guns into the state from further south, where gun laws are more laxed.

**H.B.M.C.**

Clearly the solution to this is more guns.

**LordofHats**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Clearly the solution to this is more guns.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Actually blaming gang violence means that a politician's record on crime is open to scrutiny, and that their previous claims on lowering crime were not true/effective as they had claimed. It also requires time, effort, energy, and finances. Also the inevitable backlash against law enforcement, and the politician who proposed cracking down on crime. Given that this outbreak of gang violence occurred during a West Indian cultural celebration it appears that the perpetrators may have been from a minority population which may bring the issues of racism into the discussion.

Instead it is much easier, more expedient, and cheaper to rail against something that you know won't work - but that your base appreciates and you can always blame the Evil NRA when the newest "common sense" gun control measure, that would have done nothing to prevent the attack, gets nowhere.

Actually, I think a "good" politician could still blame gang violence and still not be all that open to scrutiny. Basically, they could say that yes, this was gang violence and that's bad, but look at how much crime on the whole has decreased... That includes gang crimes.

Much of the rest of it I agree with... In the current environment, I think it may be quite difficult to pull off declaring "war" on gangs, when you already have a public image problem surrounding police shootings and other deaths at the hands of LEOs.

**Breotan**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Clearly the solution to this is more guns.

Sadly the solution for this particular scenario comes down to better policing by NYPD's gang task force. One would think they'd have intel on this since it was obviously a planned attack by both gangs.

**stanman**

A Mac-10??? Was the shooter an O.G. throwback from the late 80's? I thought that a modified glock-17 was the gat of choice for today's upwardly mobile criminals?