Forgeworld armies and legality.

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**purplkrush**

Hello all, I'm nearly done with what I want in my Eldar army and just need a couple multiples for my Harlies to finish them off. I'm getting a little bored with the space elves and want to go back to my original passion in 40k.

Emperor's Children Cult Slaneesh.

I've decided to do this army as much forgeworld as possible. I contacted them by email and was told IA 2, 2nd Ed. was the book I needed for vehicles and dreads. Sooooo, being the cheap (-yet still hardbound, paper addicted-) bastard that I am, I decided to recon the book before buying. It constantly references the Badab War and the Tyrant Legions for all the vehicles and dreads. But it specifies Astral Claws legion.

Is that their justification for allowing Chaos factions access to these items? Is it technically "legal" for me to run an Emperor's Children army with these IA items? How would you react if I showed up with say, an 80-90% Forgeworld army with all vehicles coming from IA?

It's a fair bit of money but I absolutely love their 30k EC models and the conversions shouldn't be difficult. I just don't want it gathering dust because it's completely Unbound or ridiculously beardy.

**die toten hosen**

forge world is straight up legal for use in all 40K games, exceptions generally being horus heresy stuff.

the big thing to look out for is how up to date your rules sources are and what FAQ's you may need

**BaronIveagh**

I'm surprised no one has come in screaming 'But it doesn't specifically say they're legal in a Core Book, just all the FW ones!' yet...

**TheCustomLime**

Of course it's legal. It's just as legal as a Codex, Supplement or a dataslate.

**Vaktathi**

purplkrush wrote:
Hello all, I'm nearly done with what I want in my Eldar army and just need a couple multiples for my Harlies to finish them off. I'm getting a little bored with the space elves and want to go back to my original passion in 40k.

Emperor's Children Cult Slaneesh.

I've decided to do this army as much forgeworld as possible. I contacted them by email and was told IA 2, 2nd Ed. was the book I needed for vehicles and dreads. Sooooo, being the cheap (-yet still hardbound, paper addicted-) bastard that I am, I decided to recon the book before buying. It constantly references the Badab War and the Tyrant Legions for all the vehicles and dreads. But it specifies Astral Claws legion.

Is that their justification for allowing Chaos factions access to these items? Is it technically "legal" for me to run an Emperor's Children army with these IA items? How would you react if I showed up with say, an 80-90% Forgeworld army with all vehicles coming from IA?

It's a fair bit of money but I absolutely love their 30k EC models and the conversions shouldn't be difficult. I just don't want it gathering dust because it's completely Unbound or ridiculously beardy.

The book you want for Chaos Space Marines is Imperial Armour volume 13, Volume 2 is for Loyalist Space Marines.

Yes, it's legal for you to use Imperial Armour stuff, as legal as anything else. It's written by GW employees at GW HQ on GW payroll, published by GW and sold through a GW domain webstore.

Most people won't mind if you show up with an army that's mostly forgeworld stuff as long as you aren't cherrypicking and going overboard with only the "good" stuff. Most people will probably actually think it's pretty cool.

**purplkrush**

THANK YOU!

I should have worded things differently. IA 13, got it. That's what I was getting at with the "legality" part.

I thought it was weird that everything said it was for loyalists and Tyrant Legion Astral Claws. Nothing was screaming at me that it was good to go for Chaos factions!

**Vaktathi**

purplkrush wrote:
THANK YOU!

I should have worded things differently. IA 13, got it. That's what I was getting at with the "legality" part.

I thought it was weird that everything said it was for loyalists and Tyrant Legion Astral Claws. Nothing was screaming at me that it was good to go for Chaos factions!

Aye, IA13 has all the cool Chaos stuff, and also has an army list for traitor-guard equivalent armies (Renegades & Heretics).

Bear in mind though, the rules for a lot of the Chaos stuff are pretty bad. The book has rules for Sonic Dreadnoughts (yay!) but they're hilariously expensive. Sicaran tanks are quite excellent however.

Meanwhile, some of the stuf in the Renegades and Heretics list (like artillery) is...absurdly cheap.

EDIT: ooh almost forgot, I did a review on IA13 a few months ago, going over pretty much everything in the book Here

**purplkrush**

Thank you again! You guys have been incredibly helpful!

Yeah, I'm going Slaneesh so I'm just gonna suck it up and blow the points on the Sonic Dreads. It's fine, 8 don't want a huge model-intensive army anyways.

Great to hear about the Sicaran, though. I definitely wanted one of those as soon as I laid eyes on it.

**Vaktathi**

Glad to help

The sonic dread is a cool enough model that it can warrant hamfisting in even with its incredibly high cost, and the Sicaran is a beautiful kit in addition to being a solid all-round gun tank.

**NoiseMarine with Tinnitus**

IA13 is certainly your man, cracking read in general as well. Also, why has nobody mentioned the FIRERAPTOR? Check out the picture of the Flawless Host colour scheme, it looks great.

Please don't follow this post with yet more Crassus Armoured Assault transport memes, we have plenty of them : )

**JinxDragon**

I'm greedy enough that I really would have liked the Sonic Dreads to have both a Blastmaster and a Sonic Blaster, but I guess you can't have anything.
Still, the quivering I get when I think on the Fire Raptor is unnatural... but feels so good!

**Skriker**

Vaktathi wrote:
Glad to help

The sonic dread is a cool enough model that it can warrant hamfisting in even with its incredibly high cost, and the Sicaran is a beautiful kit in addition to being a solid all-round gun tank.

I love my slaanesh sonic dread. My slaanesh marines needed something harder hitting though so replaced the sonic weapon with a plasma cannon. Still has the doom siren, though.

In general the ferrus infernus dreads and the sonic dread are expensive, I think to make up for the fact that they don't have the stupid chaos frenzy issues anymore and are fully usable as is with no need to roll on a table and see if it just stands there looking at the sun or something instead of being useful.

**Intercessor**

Ferrus are great for their BS5 and WS5. Can easily cost as much as a contemptor though with lots of upgrades, so sadly not very points efficient. And they require a technomancer unless it's the only relic of the armoury in your army.

**Spetulhu**

The worst problem you'll face isn't really whether FW is "legal" or not, it's people being unwilling to face units they've never seen before and never read the rules for. Game stores usually have the regular Codex books but seldom carry any FW books so you can't really check them out unless the guy who bought it lets you read his shiny and expensive book.

**welshhoppo**

There is also the idea that forgeworld units are overpowered, which isn't exactly true. Nothing that forgeworld can put out would be any worse than facing an eldar list.

**JinxDragon**

Even the over-powered stuff from Forgeworld was point-costed well enough to account for it, with a leaning towards 'expensive' more often then not.
If anything, their 'okay' stuff was also leaning towards expensive in order to ensure the 'vanilla' Models that filled the same roles did not get overshadowed.

**SDFarsight**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Of course it's legal. It's just as legal as a Codex, Supplement or a dataslate.

Unfortunately balance or legality just isn't enough for some players; some players simply won't touch anything that isn't on their local GW shelves. Fortunately that mindset has became more rare since Forgeworld has gained more publicity and acceptance, but "no homebrew" is still around. Of course Forgeworld isn't homebrew, but try telling someone that who has already thrown logic out the window.

**ServiceGames**

I thought GW actually owned FW. Seems very much like a place to test the popularity of models before they bring them under the Citadel/GW logo.

That said, I'm not sure of absolute legality of FW models. I do know that the manager of my local GW shop allows all FW models and bits without any issue.

SG

**purplkrush**

Trying to put together a 1k list for the project to start and it's tough fitting everything in.

I'm thinking about :

1x 5 man troops (cc kit with melta & rhino)
2x 5 man cults 4x sonic 1x blast
1x 10 man troop (sweeper cc w/flamers)
1x sonic dread
1x Sicaran
1x lord (cc kit)

Sound good for a smaller force?

The elites are really to hold objectives and choke points with the Salvo and blast marker. Melta crew will have the Lord with melta bombs to handle the armor I think I'll generally see at this level. The dread and Sicaran are hopefully fure-magnets with some staying power.

**Skriker**

Sonic dread will not have staying power. The chaos contemptor has more staying power because it has a Inv save as well. The Sonic and Infernus dreads suffer from the same problem most marine based dreadnoughts have right now: Too few hull points and not enough armor to mitigate it.