Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This Angels of Redemption Company Veteran Squad has space marine optics on their bolt guns. Does this confer a modification to their bs, givee them the sniper special rules or just look nice as they are vets and they do what ever they want?

Optics give them no special rules, sadly.

Oh that sucks. Oh well I gues its just optical enhancement, various vision modes to aid their hunt of the fallen.

What the physical model possesses does not matter, all that matters is what the Datasheet and other relevant Rules states they possess.

....except in the case of WYSIWYG, which IS an important consideration much of the time.

For example, would it be allowed for me to use Tau Fire Warrior datasheets with my models equipped in power armour?

Personally:
Yes I would allow you to count your Power Armoured Marines as Tau Fire Warriors.
Worse case situation, I will ask for some way to mark them so I don't mistake them for your actual Marines if you are using both.

Rule as Written:
Can you quote for me the 7th Edition Rule that enforces the concept of 'What You See Is What You Get?'

From my understanding, What You See Is What You Get is a curtsey that we offer to each other in order to make it easier to understand which model is which and to prevent the possibility of cheating. In some previous editions it has appeared as a written Rule, and thus required to be enforced, but in others it vanishes completely. Without looking deeply into the Rulebook, as I do have to catch a plane very soon, I do believe 7th Edition is one of those ones where it is not a Written Rule. Thus the only thing the Rules care about is what is written on the Datasheet the models are representing.

JinxDragon wrote:
Personally:
Yes I would allow you to count your Power Armoured Marines as Tau Fire Warriors.
Worse case situation, I will ask for some way to mark them so I don't mistake them for your actual Marines if you are using both.

Rule as Written:
Can you quote for me the 7th Edition Rule that enforces the concept of 'What You See Is What You Get?'

From my understanding, What You See Is What You Get is a curtsey that we offer to each other in order to make it easier to understand which model is which and to prevent the possibility of cheating. In some previous editions it has appeared as a written Rule, and thus required to be enforced, but in others it vanishes completely. Without looking deeply into the Rulebook, as I do have to catch a plane very soon, I do believe 7th Edition is one of those ones where it is not a Written Rule. Thus the only thing the Rules care about is what is written on the Datasheet the models are representing.

WYSIWYG is a community convention and not a written rule. The rules do, however, make note that they assume you are using Citadel miniatures in your games. Presumably this means that if you are using a Space Marine Captain armed with a Lightning Claw and Storm Bolter in game that you are using a Citadel miniature corresponding to the same setup... i.e., a Space Marine Captain model assembled with Lighning Claw and Storm Bolter. While not a rule, the rules do assume this.

Agreed, a nice convention at that.

Was it 5th edition that was the last to have WYSIWYG as an actual rule?

Agreed it's an important convention of decency. I had a friendly game the other day where two Eldar Windriders assaulted the remnants of a Tactical Squad only to be told that the sergeant had a Power Fist... which was represented by a bionic arm.

Friendly game so it wasn't a big deal; I just told my opponent it's good to actually model that, or at least otherwise let me know something non-standard actually represents an upgrade.

There are definitely WYSIWYG fanatics, and many tournaments seem to require it, however I tend to be a bit more flexible as long as it's fairly clear something is different.

For example, I have a squad of Grey Knight Paladins, 1 of them has the Psy-cannon bit, but my unit has 2 psycannons and the box only has 1. Well, chances of a free psy-cannon laying around for free or really cheap is pretty low, so I just used the psilencer as the second one. I consider it reasonable to say "There are two psycannons in this squad, its this dude and this dude." For many friendly players, they aren't going to be able to identify every piece of weaponry purely by look anyway.

I generally ask what people's squads are, and what's in them, and who has what. As long as there is some kind of distinguishing mark, that's easy to spot from table-top distances then I'm generally good to go.

This is also why my Wave Serpents have different rune-markings on them, let's me mark who has what and what each squad is carrying, and I have it written down in case there is some dispute with my opponent I can go back to my list and point each out.