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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Kickstarter is Successfully Funded!
$1,290,522 raised from 6,611 backers.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends

On March 23, 2018, SPM provided the following update:
SPM wrote:Production

First and foremost, as most of you have surmised, wave one will not be arriving in April as we had previously estimated. As we have shown in multiple updates, development and layout for most rewards is complete. (Development will be covered in more detail below.)

Production has obviously faced some major hurdles and delays. To overcome them, we have had to move the production of the Super Dungeon: Explore core game to a new manufacturer. We are beginning this shift with just Explore in order to iron out the process. We will then work with both of our manufacturing partners towards the creation of all of the additional rewards.

We have done (and will continue) all due diligence to ensure that all Super Dungeon product remains consistent and of the high quality you expect across all products. It is every bit as import to us, as it is to you, that the final Super Dungeon product is an exceptional experience.

This shift naturally leads to the question of timelines. While we have done our best to provide you with accurate estimates of timelines, we have obviously not been successful in our estimates. We apologize for this. It has not been our intention in any way to mislead you. Estimates were made based upon the best information we had available at the time. Going forward, we will no longer be providing time estimates. We will only be providing concrete milestones once they have been achieved. While this does not provide the false “comfort” of a delivery estimate, it will make it so that when we update you with a production milestone it will have the weight of having been hit.

Refund Policy Update

At this late stage in the Kickstarter we are officially ending the open refund period, effective immediately. While we understand the delay in fulfilment is frustrating, because we are in the production process we must be able to have firm numbers in order to plan logistics and production.

If you have previously requested a refund during the open refund period, it will remain in our queue and you will receive your refund. We apologize for any delay you may have encountered in receiving your refund. They are not forgotten, and will be processed as they move through our queue.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/super-dungeon-explore-legends/posts/2144515

If you cut through the crap, SPM is doing nothing to produce anything, despite previously claiming they were ready to produce Wave 1. Their last "production" update was March 23 - 3 months ago, and nothing has happened since then. They are no closer to delivery today, than they were in March. There is zero progress on that front. Compare with Starfinder or WotF or anything else, and it's clear that SPM isn't doing a damn thing on the SDE:L KS.

SPM also willfully and materially breach the contract by unilaterally declaring that they won't accept refunds, despite (obviously) not being within the 8 weeks window. Not that they have provided any refunds since Nov-Dec. 2017 (6 months ago), despite written replies to individual backers stating that their refunds were approved and would be forthcoming.

On July 11, 2018, SPM posted the following:
Soda Pop Miniatures wrote:Hello Explorers,
We will be suspending updates until we next have a firm production update to share with you. We share your continued frustration, and apologize for the extended delays we are having in manufacturing and fulfilling your pledges. We remain 100% committed to providing you with an exceptional Super Dungeon product. For those of you who enjoy the continued exploration of the world of Super Dungeon, we will be moving our previews of the fiction content from the Explorer’s Guide to the website.


That's it folks. SPM is done.


BTW, on July 12, 2018, John Starck Cadice confirmed approved refunds were also on indefinite hold:
John Starck Cadice wrote:"we have regrettably had to withhold refunds until we deliver on projects and stem the bleeding of cost overruns and explosion of scope.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/241607936023872/permalink/911604765690849/?comment_id=911773369007322&reply_comment_id=912432028941456

This message was edited 32 times. Last update was at 2018/07/12 21:02:53


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Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






I am not sure I like the sound of SDE 2.0 - getting fixed rulebooks is all well and good - but I already have painted heroes/kobolds etc - I don't fancy having to paint all that again. But I also dislike the idea of there being nicer, better sculpts of all the classic heroes/kobolds etc. I need 50 remade SDE minis like I need an extra hole in the head. I've barely dented TFK stuff.

Add in the expansion and stretch goals and we're talking another 100 minis easy.

Plus will they be printing errata'd cards from TFK? Far more errors there than in the rulebook.
   
Made in us
Reverent Tech-Adept






Alright! This just made my day, looking forward to the new stuff.

Schmapdi wrote:
I am not sure I like the sound of SDE 2.0 - getting fixed rulebooks is all well and good - but I already have painted heroes/kobolds etc - I don't fancy having to paint all that again. But I also dislike the idea of there being nicer, better sculpts of all the classic heroes/kobolds etc. I need 50 remade SDE minis like I need an extra hole in the head. I've barely dented TFK stuff.

Add in the expansion and stretch goals and we're talking another 100 minis easy.

Plus will they be printing errata'd cards from TFK? Far more errors there than in the rulebook.


These are all personal issues caused by your own habits and preferences.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Spoiler:
Ninja Division wrote:Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja Division Publishing are happy to announce the upcoming Super Dungeon® Legends Kickstarter! This exciting Kickstarter will feature three brand new products in a single pledge: Super Dungeon® Explore: 2nd Edition, The Midnight Tower level expansion, and Super Dungeon® Legends boxed set.

Super Dungeon® Explore: 2nd Edition, brings players the rules from our highly successful Forgotten King expansion, in an all new affordable boxset. The ruleset has been updated to include all of the errata and clarifications from the last year of player feedback, and will continue to be fully playable with all existing cards. Super Dungeon® Explore: 2nd Edition, features new sculpts of the nine classic Heroes, all new kobolds, drakes, Rex the kobold ogre, and Starfire the Ruby Dragon. The classic Dragonback Peaks tiles have been updated and reimagined, featuring all new stunning art, to bring them in line with other 2nd Edition tilesets from Forgotten King, Von Drakk Ghost House, and Dungeons of Crystalia. To further increase replayability, all monsters come with multiple profiles. Battle shadow kobolds from the depths of the Nether Rifts, elemental drakes from the Fire Flows, a mighty armored kobold ogre, among others!

The Midnight Tower level expansion reveals the dreaded armies of The Midnight Queen. Armies of baroque-armored Nether Elves issue forth from the corrupted Tower of the Goddess. Within their ranks, cursed Spider Speakers summon scuttling hordes of spiders, spinning webs of shadow and poisoning their foes. Alongside them march powerful Knights of the Tower on spectral steeds, while Tower Stalkers lurk in the shadows weakening the mightiest Heroes, before their fellows strike the final blow. Three new Heroes take up the call to adventure: the rugged Hearthsworn Tincan, sneaky Cat Burglar, and brutal Riftling Warrior.

Super Dungeon® Legends is the centerpiece of this mighty Super Dungeon® extravaganza. Legends introduces progressive campaign play to Super Dungeon® Explore. Heroes battle through adventures earning crystals to spend on powerful new skills and abilities. Advance in class to unlock even more powerful versions. Dismantle your loot and treasure to craft bizarre and wondrous new items, under the watchful gaze of the Golden Eye of the Goddess. Two new and powerful dice are introduced—Citrine and Amethyst—providing new possibilities to combat. New smaller dungeon rooms and hallways make their debut, increasing the diversity of dungeon layouts. If you have always wanted to roleplay in the world of Super Dungeon®, Legends provides rules for narrative adventures, nonplayer characters, and out-of-combat skills. An all new world guide further expands on the realms, races, monsters, and personalities of Crystalia.

All this and more awaits you in just the starting pledge for Super Dungeon® Legends! As always, we have thought up a wide range of fun and unique stretch goals to further increase the possibilities for your games of Super Dungeon®. Over the next several weeks we will preview content for the upcoming Kickstarter. Be sure to check back every Monday and Thursday so you don’t miss a thing!

http://ninjadivision.com/super-dungeon-legends-kickstarter/

I look at it like this:

SDE 2.0 - I own the original set, updated with the FK rules and cards and counters, so I don't need alternate sculpts of what I already own. I could potentially use alternate tiles, however...

The Midnight Tower - I'm excited by the idea of expanding into a new area, along with new Heroes and especially new monsters. If this is a full-on expansion for the 3 Heroes and what sounds like 3+ spawn points worth of monsters, then I'll probably pledge for this. If it has new tiles, then I'm not really pressed for remakes of the original tiles.

SDE Legends - this is also interesting, with variable-sized rooms and halls to make D&D-like layouts, so it's rules, dice and map components. Hopefull, Legends isn't monsters, as SDE already has enough of those, although Legendary Bosses wouldn't be unwelcome.

So overall, my strongest interest is with the Midnight Tower. Legends is something I'm on the fence about, while SDE 2.0 is not particularly compelling.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/19 18:16:28


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[DCM]
interstate man of mystery






 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I look at it like this:

SDE 2.0 - I own the original set, updated with the FK rules and cards and counters, so I don't need alternate sculpts of what I already own. I could potentially use alternate tiles, however...

The Midnight Tower - I'm excited by the idea of expanding into a new area, along with new Heroes and especially new monsters. If this is a full-on expansion for the 3 Heroes and what sounds like 3+ spawn points worth of monsters, then I'll probably pledge for this. If it has new tiles, then I'm not really pressed for remakes of the original tiles.

SDE Legends - this is also interesting, with variable-sized rooms and halls to make D&D-like layouts, so it's rules, dice and map components. Hopefull, Legends isn't monsters, as SDE already has enough of those, although Legendary Bosses wouldn't be unwelcome.

So overall, my strongest interest is with the Midnight Tower. Legends is something I'm on the fence about, while SDE 2.0 is not particularly compelling.

i'm in a similar boat, so i'm hoping there will be a pledge option without sde 2.0, but with the rest, or 2.0 minus the figures (i have no interest in painting another set of kobolds and whatnot)

 Kanluwen wrote:
My phone just autocorrected "Are we having booze tonight?" to "Ewok Jesus Saves".
.
 
   
Made in us
Reverent Tech-Adept






I for one have always wanted a compelling reason to get into SDE and I figure this is it. I didn't do they're last KS but I remember it was the same format, seemed really easy and smart to me.

How often do board games like these release rules separately though? I really don't know, but it can't be often from what I can tell.
   
Made in us
Mighty Kroxigor Ancient





California the Southern

The thing about variable room size makes me think of Descent's Road To Legend and the smaller dungeons you could run in that.

If 2.0 gives me bite size dungeons that can wrap in an hour and/ or a possible "family" mode, I'll bite.

My kids preferred the original game's stuff to Forgotten King anyways.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 pax macharia wrote:
I for one have always wanted a compelling reason to get into SDE and I figure this is it. I didn't do they're last KS but I remember it was the same format, seemed really easy and smart to me.

How often do board games like these release rules separately though? I really don't know, but it can't be often from what I can tell.


SDE generally releases a PDF of the rules, once they're final.

In this case, I'm hoping they will at least release draft rules for 2.0.

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
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Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






I'm pretty sure when they talk about 2.0 they're talking about the rules we already got with TFK, just with the errata they released added in.
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept





I'm fairly okay with this. New tiles and 'alternate' / 2.0 vanilla heroes sound good. Rather indifferent to the thought of more vanilla minions but the new models might change that if they look good enough. Starfire 2.5 could be... Legendary.
   
Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






Yeah - I'm OK with alt heroes, and a new starefire (that I suspect will look more like King Starfire). But all new kobolds and whatnot feels like overkill. And more dice and more cards I already have ... etc etc.

It just seems weird to redo the vanilla core set when they just released TFK.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Could always be an IP issue. Rather than owning all the rights to the sculpts, they could have only had them for a certain period of time. Or they could be "taking advantage of" KS and expecting fans will be willing to pay the additional costs of new sculpts and art for an updated game, even though they have a set. Also, perhaps based on CMON's standalone expansions, they may be thinking that they need a shiny new standalone set in the campaign, to attract gamers who don't own SDE yet.

Several weeks? So... November or December?

"And while I'm forgiving of one mishap, this string of incidences suggests the problem is with the project managers, not whom they hire, what materials they are using, what language their backers are using, etc. I do notice that entrepreneurs have more self-confidence than other people, and need it to persevere bad luck and obstacles. But this self-confidence can turn into "do nothing wrong" blindness, which prevents these people from admitting mistakes and improving themselves." -- September 3, 2014 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

ced1106 wrote:
Could always be an IP issue. Rather than owning all the rights to the sculpts, they could have only had them for a certain period of time.

Also, perhaps based on CMON's standalone expansions, they may be thinking that they need a shiny new standalone set in the campaign, to attract gamers who don't own SDE yet.

Several weeks? So... November or December?


Hm, yeah, I could see it as part of the CMoN / SDE breakup.

I wonder if SDE 2.0 would be a meaningful difference in starting point compared to FK. Would SDE skinny up the box to only 4 or 5 tiles total, fewer Heroes & Spawns for a lower price point? Maybe.

I think mid-November would be best. If it's close to Thanksgiving, maybe it's too late to finish in 2015?

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
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Belgium

Argh, no! I don't have enough place left in my showcase!

Will have to pledge that, of course. A RPG in a Chibi World? Come on, take my money.

2.0 rules, sure, I can understand why. Games of SDE take quite some time. But I'm much more interested by these reculpts...

I have faith that Soda Pop can manage that fast enough. They really do a great work with their former kickstarters. No doubt that one can come quite quickly as well.

Cuteness for the Cute Goddess! 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Interesting.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I have seen a lot of 'I don't care about new sculpts' especially from board gamers. If you are not planning to collect and paint chibis, I can see a lot of the content of this new KS lay a huge fart right out of the gate for people who have existing content.

After seeing how NAS was mismanaged when they got too greedy and the rules issues which potentially doom the entire game, I don't have much faith in Sodapop for the rules, and if a lot of people don't care about duplicate sculpts they might have a big problem on their hands... Especially with AQ: Inferno looming which is a solid game with crossover appeal to regular boardgamers.

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Belgium

NAS was not mismanaged. It was because of people saying a lot of false things about their rules, and then seeing their "proposals" actually brought other problems. If there was a mistake, it was Soda Pop listening to those "doom sayers".

About the "I don't care about new sculpts", we'll see once the Kickstarter will start. Pretty much believe it will be successful.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Soda Pop gives the opportunity to take just the rules - or maybe they will be in free download, who knows. For the maps, well...second edition hasn't the same size, so they needed to be redone. Simple as that.

AQ is a nice game. Still, it's different (even the Chibi, it's more "cartoon/comic" looking, IMHO). It's clearly PvP (well, Guild vs Guild actually ). SDE is more PvE/Classic Heroes vs Dungeon Master. Not the same game, not the same market. They're not really in competition - unless you think having chibi in a game automatically means it's the same.

Cuteness for the Cute Goddess! 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

For all the people who won't back for those reasons, AQ:Inferno will loose a similar number who won't back because of all the exclusive content they can't get later (or could not get for the original game)

I see more issues with this being (apparently) a single pledge level when it would have been better to offer the redone game (which as you say is probably not for a lot who have the original and have already upgraded it via the decks in forgotten king) as one item,

and the totally new stuff as a second as that's going to appeal to evebybody

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/15 12:54:03


 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 Sarouan wrote:

AQ is a nice game. Still, it's different (even the Chibi, it's more "cartoon/comic" looking, IMHO). It's clearly PvP (well, Guild vs Guild actually ). SDE is more PvE/Classic Heroes vs Dungeon Master. Not the same game, not the same market. They're not really in competition - unless you think having chibi in a game automatically means it's the same.


I agree; the games are very different, and I think there's a place in every collection for both of them (especially if you're a chibi fan). That being said, they're definitely for the same market, and they definitely compete for gamers' finite dollars.

I'm just excited it looks like I'll finally be able to get rid of my original SDE V1 box; that thing is in rough shape!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Aesthetically, I think AQ is Dragon Quest to SDE's Final Fantasy.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran





Belgium

To me, the inspiration is different. SDE clearly takes its own from old style arcade 8/16 bits RPG while AQ has many references from MMORPG (especially the PvP ones).

Visual is also not the same and while I own both of these games, I don't like to mix the models. I can feel a clear difference between them. Maybe it's just me, however.

When I want to play a fast and furious PvP game, I take Arcadia Quest. Really nice and simple rules, but full with tactics and sneaky tricks. When I want to take my time and hit some monsters full PvE style, Super Dungeon Explore is more suited.

Of course, I can play the PvP "Arena" rules for SDE as well. And soon, seems like the RPG will come. Not really something boardgamers will care about but SDE isn't just for boardgamers.


Ah, this is such a Golden Era for miniatures...even the Chibi ones. I'm so lucky to live in this age!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/15 13:18:02


Cuteness for the Cute Goddess! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

I think SPM learned a lot from the NAS KS, which is why they're showing more now. The NAS KS really came from a "we know what's best for you, and you're going to like it" mindset, and SPM had to retrench a couple of times. The fact that SPM had to completely revamp their core pledge concept based on backer feedback (complaints), that's clear proof of mismanagement on SPM's part. Had things gone the way they wanted, that never would have happened. The slow tease of information didn't do them any favors, either, with people trying to figure out what SPM was offering. Quite frankly, I think SPM missed the boat on the game itself. It should have been a Blood Bowl / Dreadball / Kaosball / Guildball type game, using SDE mechanics, rather than doing something completely different.

SPM building off their revamped SDE franchise ties their hands somewhat, as there has to be commonality with the recently-launched Forgotten King KS. They can't just do something completely random and expect backers to respond to that. Still, the rules issues win FK and NAS suggest that SPM now has to work harder on earning backer favor on the rules front.

Regardless, I am almost certainly backing for the Midnight Tower to add to my SDE collection. Whether I also back for Legends rules, that's up in the air.

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
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Made in us
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 Sarouan wrote:
NAS was not mismanaged. It was because of people saying a lot of false things about their rules, and then seeing their "proposals" actually brought other problems. If there was a mistake, it was Soda Pop listening to those "doom sayers".

About the "I don't care about new sculpts", we'll see once the Kickstarter will start. Pretty much believe it will be successful.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Soda Pop gives the opportunity to take just the rules - or maybe they will be in free download, who knows. For the maps, well...second edition hasn't the same size, so they needed to be redone. Simple as that.

AQ is a nice game. Still, it's different (even the Chibi, it's more "cartoon/comic" looking, IMHO). It's clearly PvP (well, Guild vs Guild actually ). SDE is more PvE/Classic Heroes vs Dungeon Master. Not the same game, not the same market. They're not really in competition - unless you think having chibi in a game automatically means it's the same.


Fake stretch goals, re-tooling of core pledges, multiple stalls say otherwise for the mismanagement. I broke down the stretches for TFK and NAS and seeign how they were expecting people to pay 30$ for about 60% of the content stuffed in a retail TFK add-on which was 30$ and then grow those later via stretches was totally unreasonable. The ONI aspect was also Unreasonable along with the Heroes. They had to combine a bunch of stretches and change the pacing when it was clear theyw ere not going to get a million dollars and they were not going to get there with 25k stretches which 2 out of 3 were fake due to the reduced value compared to other products.

The problem is, you can call AQ and SDE 'different games' but to claim they are not the same market is simply not true. Both are packaged and sold as BOARD GAMES and like it or not, share that market and while board games have different gameplay, they are both Ameritrash. The other reason they supposedly share a 'market' is because AQ is universally 'good' as a core game where SDE doesn't stand alone as a functional or good game.

People play AQ because the rules are tight, the gameplay is fun and it is worth playing regardless of figures. SDE is only played as a way to push SDE figures around a board, much how 40k is played to showcase and have a reason to collect 40k minis. Remove the minis and the 'theme' and what have you got? A pretty rough game with real problems and almost no appeal outside people trying to explicitly play with specific figures.

To pretend they are not in competition, even with the exact history between CMoN and Sodapop is simply not realistic and sounds like propaganda and wishful thinking.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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SoCal, USA!

nkelsch wrote:
SDE doesn't stand alone as a functional or good game.

People play AQ because the rules are tight, the gameplay is fun and it is worth playing regardless of figures. SDE is only played as a way to push SDE figures around a board, much how 40k is played to showcase and have a reason to collect 40k minis. Remove the minis and the 'theme' and what have you got? A pretty rough game with real problems and almost no appeal outside people trying to explicitly play with specific figures.

To pretend they are not in competition, even with the exact history between CMoN and Sodapop is simply not realistic and sounds like propaganda and wishful thinking.


Hold on there, hoss. I played a LOT of SDE 1E, and it was a very functional and very good game, with surprisingly tight gameplay between Consul and Heroes. For their first game, I was truly impressed with just how good their game was.

AQ may be a good game despite the figures, but SDE 1E was a great game with great figures. It wouldn't have been as cute with meeples or tokens, but it still would have played well enough. But I do agree that I preordered on the strength of the minis alone, because the minis are that good. I declined to back AQ because the minis are grotesque.

I do agree that AQ was specifically created by CMoN to compete with SPM's SDE.

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
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Made in us
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 JohnHwangDD wrote:


Hold on there, hoss. I played a LOT of SDE 1E, and it was a very functional and very good game, with surprisingly tight gameplay between Consul and Heroes. For their first game, I was truly impressed with just how good their game was.


Well that 'tightness' has had the barn doors blown off in TFK due to the extreme imbalance. In SDE 1.0 the limited number of heroes and spawns kept some of the balance creep under control, but TFK has a clear design aspect of 'we gonna make rules which are cool! and call imbalance difficulty level'.

That means that people need to pull their punches and basically 'COMP' the gameplay to make it fair or balanced and make the game functional. When certain monster choices are auto-win for consul and Ninja Cola exists, it shows they don't care about being a fair and balanced game... they want an 'experience'. Which is fine, but turns off a ton of people who want to have expectation of fairness. Seeing how well certain heroes do against themed monsters can be fun and is a great beer and pretzel experience, but grossly deviates from SDE 1.0 and the idea that the rules stand alone minus theme.

You want to call SDE a RPG toolkit system and not a boardgame? fine. I would agree to that... too bad it hasn't been marketed as such. Maybe this KS is an attempt to re-brand towards that? The problem is you will need to grossly alienate a large number of boardgamers and tell them at the door 'this really isn't for you, we don't plan to change and you won't like it.' That is basically what ends up happening when people buy the nice square box, play it and put it on the shelf.

AQ is the exact opposite, it was a solid game simply skinned to be chibi to fill a hole in CMoNs line and stick it to SDE knowing that there is a market for fantasy chibi minis outside the RPG toolkit system of SDE. AQ is one of the most bulletproof games I have seen hit the mini gaming in a long while. If it wasn't Chibi, AQ would have fit in well with B-sieged and Zombicide BP as a boardgame in a fantasy universe with cross-game ties. I actually think CMoN missed the boat a little, because having multiple gaming systems which can share themed minis means every release for Zombicide also releases levels for AQ and B-seiged and so on. It hits the mini collectors right in the pocketbook while providing endless expansion for games which pass the quality test for boardgamers.

SDE is basically 40k. People like the theme, it can be fun to play, severe imbalance requires COMP or pulled punches to make it work, an objectively poorly written game. If they are embracing the imbalance and wonky mechanics to make an experience generator and not a vs tactical fight, then so be it. Don't expect that path to appeal to a lot of the market.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
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RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
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MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

You are aware that it is possible to play SDE:tFK using SDE 1E rules, right? And that one can calibrate difficulty to player skill and so forth, right?

I just think you're overly down on 2E. No, "Classic" is not as good as 1E, because SPM kinda lost track of what the game was supposed to be. And "Arcade" is a total mess. But as I noted above, people are working to "fix" 2E in various ways. I just think that one could use the Original 1E framework to simplify and speed the game, because it worked fine before.

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
-- $k Kingdom Death : Monster P&M blog
-- 9k Craftworld Tian-Bing Eldar
-- 7k Ragnarok 1st "Einherjar" Imperial Guard
-- 2k Pale Templars CSM
-- 4k Solland's Ghosts WFB Dogs of War 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You are aware that it is possible to play SDE:tFK using SDE 1E rules, right? And that one can calibrate difficulty to player skill and so forth, right?

I just think you're overly down on 2E. No, "Classic" is not as good as 1E, because SPM kinda lost track of what the game was supposed to be. And "Arcade" is a total mess. But as I noted above, people are working to "fix" 2E in various ways. I just think that one could use the Original 1E framework to simplify and speed the game, because it worked fine before.


Right, And I like the direction of some of the fan-fixes... and I am OK with SDE becoming an RPG toolkit where some heroes are EZ mode and others are more effort and the same with monsters. But that doesn't make a good GAME, but makes a framework of rules able to be deployed in a playable narrative system using specific models. It is basically the Age of Sigmar of Chibi games.

I was hoping that a 2.0 KS would see a rewrite of core rules and re-balancing of the TFK stuff which was not at all an a improvement.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Actually, it's the 40k 6E/7E of chibi games. SDE:FK changes several core gameplay concepts, rebalances things for little obvious reason, and adds a lot of new stuff stuff that simply wasn't there before (Explore, Creeps, etc.).

If SDE:FK were like AOS, it would have been radically simplified, and that is not even close to the case. Definitely more of a 40k 4E/5E to 6E/7E transition.

As you've been looking at the fan-fixes to FK, what are you liking best?

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
-- $k Kingdom Death : Monster P&M blog
-- 9k Craftworld Tian-Bing Eldar
-- 7k Ragnarok 1st "Einherjar" Imperial Guard
-- 2k Pale Templars CSM
-- 4k Solland's Ghosts WFB Dogs of War 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Actually, it's the 40k 6E/7E of chibi games. SDE:FK changes several core gameplay concepts, rebalances things for little obvious reason, and adds a lot of new stuff stuff that simply wasn't there before (Explore, Creeps, etc.).

If SDE:FK were like AOS, it would have been radically simplified, and that is not even close to the case. Definitely more of a 40k 4E/5E to 6E/7E transition.

As you've been looking at the fan-fixes to FK, what are you liking best?


Right now, of the ones which I have tried or read, I am interested in the stuff which keeps the pressure on. The Lootometer thread has a lot of good feedback but no silver bullet... Which I think shows some of the problems with the rules being fixed. We have communities of people who have played hundreds of different games and have deep understanding of balance and such, everyone can identify the problems but can't identify the solutions.


My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

OK, yeah, that thread started nicely and got kinda wierd...

The basic idea of having a clock to keep pressure is important, but SDE really changed the whole balance thing around. I kind of like the Retro version best, being a 1E purist and all. Which really means that I'm just too stuck in my ways to change.

JHDD's Grand Hobby Ominbus
-- $k Kingdom Death : Monster P&M blog
-- 9k Craftworld Tian-Bing Eldar
-- 7k Ragnarok 1st "Einherjar" Imperial Guard
-- 2k Pale Templars CSM
-- 4k Solland's Ghosts WFB Dogs of War 
   
 
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