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I've got Orcs, Khorne Daemons, and a pile of beastmen. The problem is that theres very little online presence for this game, so I can't find any details about the armies and how they play. I played Orcs for a bit last edition so have an understanding of how they work, but as they seem popular I'm leaning towards one of the other armies.
I won't be getting any games for at least a month and would like to start work on my multi-bases and painting, which will take awhile because I'm converting from circular bases. So would appreciate any input that helps me pick a force so I can get started
Also, any good tactics links that dakka can suggest?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 05:29:03
You could also use the beastmen in a Forces of Nature list. I'm not sure what would be best for the Khorne Daemons, likely either proxy them as Orks or run them as Abyssals, depending on your collection and preferred playstyle.
In regards to tactics you could check out some of the backissues of the Iron Watch fanzine. They periodically publish KoW tactics articles.
https://ironwatch.wordpress.com/
KoW is very much movement based, you're essentially trying to set up charges from your heavy hitting units into the flanks of opposing units.
Check out Kings of war easy army V2 for armies and army lists. I would start there personally and see what kind of armies you can build. You can make your models go further buy having less per unit (7 in a troop or 33 in a horde etc) and make your models go further.
As for tactics, there is a lot to talk about.
I guess the most basic strategy would be flanking. Your main goal should be to get at the enemy flank with support before he does.
Inspiration is needed. I personally try keep my troops in an inspiration bubble all game. This is what leaders and characters do best.
With ranged units, it's better to have multiple troops over regiments in our experience, unless you want a horde of archers or can get archer melee troops or have an army of 100% ranged. But for most armies (like the ones you listed) stick to troops of archers.
Magic is very helpful. The Herd for example has an excellent mage. Get 2 spells (you can get heaps but generally 2). Get one support like heal or bane chant and then get one offensive spell. keep your mage cheap and dont over do spells.
Support, you will learn what units can play unsupported, but to start with don't send out units alone. Even the most powerful units die when mobbed.
If you have time to play I would go to easy army, make an army list (hell even 2) and then cut out some cardboard and have a fight. The game works better at larger games rather than smaller games but the smaller games will give you a good run down of how it plays.
Adding to what others have said, anything above 1000pts, "feels" like Kings of War, with my personal sweet spot being anywhere from 1500-2000pts. I know Mantic's own Majors are running 2500pts, but while I feel that is good, 2000pts seems to strike a balance between "tactical" and "plays" fast... plus gives the easy napkin math of 500pts worth of allies even,
In the US tournament organizers are looking at 2000pts too as a standard, so keeping that in mind in the long run is probably a good idea.
As to the above comment on ranged units. A small number of ranged units really do hold their own in close-combat as well. As you might guess, these are also units you'll feel ok about taking as a Regiment/Horde. I play Dwarves and Orgres personally, both of which have shooty units who don't mind getting their hands dirty.
Any input on how these armies play? Good sources for batreps etc?
I know more or less what Orcs do cuz I played about twenty games in 1st edition.
My only experience vs abyssals was facing them once in 1st edition - my Orcs just smacked into them and they died. We used to call them "Abysmals" because they seemed to suck that much. All I see when I look at this army list is that my Bloodletters will have to take 2hd weapons and become DEF 3 infantry which is yuck
The Herd I just can't figure out, pathfinder is either the best or the worst race ability in the game. I don't want to put them together unless they'll be effective cuz I'm a bit time strapped at the moment.
Dakkamite wrote: Any input on how these armies play? Good sources for batreps etc?
I know more or less what Orcs do cuz I played about twenty games in 1st edition.
My only experience vs abyssals was facing them once in 1st edition - my Orcs just smacked into them and they died. We used to call them "Abysmals" because they seemed to suck that much. All I see when I look at this army list is that my Bloodletters will have to take 2hd weapons and become DEF 3 infantry which is yuck
The Herd I just can't figure out, pathfinder is either the best or the worst race ability in the game. I don't want to put them together unless they'll be effective cuz I'm a bit time strapped at the moment.
Pathfinder's value depends on how much terrain is on the table. If the table is mostly an empty flat battlefield it's pretty useless but if you've got a fair amount of terrain across the table the advantage is pretty nice.
There's been a lot of discussion and batreps regarding the Herd on the mantic forums. I personally haven't played with the list but I've kept my eye on the development since I have a couple dozen beastmen sitting idle.
There is a bit of a choice there - using the Bloodletters as Lower Abyssals for a support unit - not as your main force.
Engage with a main unit, then swing the Bloodletters in on the flank, if you can - getting hit with Crushing Strength in a flank suck! (To be honest, getting hit in the flank by anything sucks! But Crushing Strength means that the hits matter more.)
I know that it kind of goes against the grain for Bloodletters - but consider upgrading some to Flamebearers instead of two handed swords - ranged attacks can be used while moseying up on the flanks. (Or use other Daemon types, if it bothers you watching Bloodletters spit in the eye of Khorne by using magic.)
The other major choice is using them as Abyssal Guard instead of Lower Abyssals - taking two handed weapons only drops them down to 4+
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
Dakkamite wrote: Any input on how these armies play? Good sources for batreps etc?
I know more or less what Orcs do cuz I played about twenty games in 1st edition.
My only experience vs abyssals was facing them once in 1st edition - my Orcs just smacked into them and they died. We used to call them "Abysmals" because they seemed to suck that much. All I see when I look at this army list is that my Bloodletters will have to take 2hd weapons and become DEF 3 infantry which is yuck
The Herd I just can't figure out, pathfinder is either the best or the worst race ability in the game. I don't want to put them together unless they'll be effective cuz I'm a bit time strapped at the moment.
My experience from my currently one Herd game
1. Tribal Hunters are lousy shots, dont rely on them 2: Tribal Berserkers are you friend and they dont like having to many friends, so dont stick them in a Regiment 3. Spearmen are great 4. Guardian Brutes are absolute monsters especially with a Shaman backing them up 5. the War totem is cool, though in small points game (1k or so) a second Shaman is better 6. Tribal Longhorns are amazing, just like Bestigors where in WHFB, use them.
Honestly the Herd plays similarly to Beastmen from FB, MSU of Zerkers are great especially when supported by the massive hammers that are Guardians.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/18 20:46:22
TheAuldGrump wrote: There is a bit of a choice there - using the Bloodletters as Lower Abyssals for a support unit - not as your main force.
Engage with a main unit, then swing the Bloodletters in on the flank, if you can - getting hit with Crushing Strength in a flank suck! (To be honest, getting hit in the flank by anything sucks! But Crushing Strength means that the hits matter more.)
I know that it kind of goes against the grain for Bloodletters - but consider upgrading some to Flamebearers instead of two handed swords - ranged attacks can be used while moseying up on the flanks. (Or use other Daemon types, if it bothers you watching Bloodletters spit in the eye of Khorne by using magic.)
The other major choice is using them as Abyssal Guard instead of Lower Abyssals - taking two handed weapons only drops them down to 4+
The Auld Grump
I hadn't thought of using them as Abyssal Guard. Heck I didn't even know the Guard exist - though in fairness that can be difficult now that they've hidden the abyssal army lists. Flamebearers is a good idea too. Using Khorne in 40k, where he hated ranged and hated magic which were the two most effective things, kind of put me off his whole anti-magic thing. Plus I have a few wrecked bloodletters I can sculpt magical flames onto
Honestly the Herd plays similarly to Beastmen from FB, MSU of Zerkers are great especially when supported by the massive hammers that are Guardians.
I never played Fantasy much, did wish they'd transfer that ambush rule to the KoW beastmen though. Berserkers and Minotaurs are how I want to roll the army, due to running Morax last edition and ending up with a crapload of Minotaur models, so its good to hear they're solid.
One idea I've considered is going full chaos hordes and running beastmen + demons together. The problem is that these armies seem to do much the same thing - move forward and punch - rather than specialize in different areas that can boost one another. Would this be a correct analysis, or can someone give a good reason to run both at the same time?
TheAuldGrump wrote: There is a bit of a choice there - using the Bloodletters as Lower Abyssals for a support unit - not as your main force.
Engage with a main unit, then swing the Bloodletters in on the flank, if you can - getting hit with Crushing Strength in a flank suck! (To be honest, getting hit in the flank by anything sucks! But Crushing Strength means that the hits matter more.)
I know that it kind of goes against the grain for Bloodletters - but consider upgrading some to Flamebearers instead of two handed swords - ranged attacks can be used while moseying up on the flanks. (Or use other Daemon types, if it bothers you watching Bloodletters spit in the eye of Khorne by using magic.)
The other major choice is using them as Abyssal Guard instead of Lower Abyssals - taking two handed weapons only drops them down to 4+
The Auld Grump
I hadn't thought of using them as Abyssal Guard. Heck I didn't even know the Guard exist - though in fairness that can be difficult now that they've hidden the abyssal army lists. Flamebearers is a good idea too. Using Khorne in 40k, where he hated ranged and hated magic which were the two most effective things, kind of put me off his whole anti-magic thing. Plus I have a few wrecked bloodletters I can sculpt magical flames onto.
Honestly the Herd plays similarly to Beastmen from FB, MSU of Zerkers are great especially when supported by the massive hammers that are Guardians.
I never played Fantasy much, did wish they'd transfer that ambush rule to the KoW beastmen though. Berserkers and Minotaurs are how I want to roll the army, due to running Morax last edition and ending up with a crapload of Minotaur models, so its good to hear they're solid.
One idea I've considered is going full chaos hordes and running beastmen + demons together. The problem is that these armies seem to do much the same thing - move forward and punch - rather than specialize in different areas that can boost one another. Would this be a correct analysis, or can someone give a good reason to run both at the same time?
Cheers for the help guys
You can get the list in Battlescribe (I think that you can see it in Easy Army as well.)
The Abyssals actually do have a decent ranged unit - those flamebearers are not bad at all. Only an 18 inch range, but piercing (1) and hitting on a 4+. Best used as Troops, though - while the extra nerve is nice, the low defense and only getting two more attacks as a regiment makes it better to have multiple small units.
The entire army having the Fury rule makes it nasty - they can still charge while Wavered....
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
Dakkamite wrote: That was a pretty good video man. Pity he ended a lot of the unit analysis with "I'd never take this"
It sounds to me that he has a play style that he likes, and does not much waver from that style.
His style isn't wrong - but it also isn't the only right choice.
He also seems to worry a lot about missile fire - which is not always as nasty as he makes it sound.
I also suspect that he does not put much depth in his army - not much by way of screening units, nor does he take trailing units, to come after any fliers that get behind the main line.
He makes a big unit army, and moves it forward.
*EDIT* It is worth noting that this is a tactic that works for Orcs. It just isn't the only tactic that works for Orcs. (I played a battle against a combined two-player army of Twilight Kin and Orcs... the Orcs used the Twilight Kin as their screen....)
The Auld Grump
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/21 15:09:32
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
From my experience playing Orcs at Gencon this last year, Gore Riders are amazing, they are crazy durable and hit like a truck. On a similar note Ax Mobs are great for their durability as well, though Greataxes also hit really hard.
Personally speaking i would probably use Ax Mobs and Gore Riders, but thats cuz i like being crazy durable
Fair warning, that Vega gentleman is an active, and outspoken member of the Mantic forums... and he... has a decent, but not always 100% grasp of the rules. Likewise he's pretty adversarial about certain design choices, etc..
I would take his suggestions with the understanding that many, many players have been playing much longer, and know the game in a more robust way.
Thats all well and good, but those guys aren't posting up army tactics...
He also seems to worry a lot about missile fire - which is not always as nasty as he makes it sound.
Whats the best way to deal with missiles? My experience is limited but I did take second once against an Elf 'gunline', and that was in 1st when non warmachine shooting was worse.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
(To be honest, getting hit in the flank by anything sucks! But Crushing Strength means that the hits matter more.)
Warboss of da Blood Vipers!! We'z gonna crush ya good!! 
ArchMagos Prime of Xenarite Exploratory Fleet Omega VIII
Sisters of the Remorseless Dawn- 4000pts
