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So I personally love the Apothecary models. The part about them I hate is that they can only be taken in a company command squad ((space marine codex)). I would love to see them buffed up to a full HQ choice sort of like Painboyz. What is everyone's thoughts about this change!

Sanguinary Priests, Red Scorpions and Salamanders have their own options. And my own Astral Claws have an Apothecary unit that is crap. The 30k one isn't bad, but it's not great either since it only goes in select units. I might be biased because I still don't play 30k and the 40k equivalent units scream mediocre in 40k. Might be different and very worth it in 30k.

So basically, no, I've never felt I'm missing out on them. I can get them in most of my Marine armies.

In a Red Scorpions army, all tactical sergeants are basically upgraded to be apothecaries, buffing tactical squads quite a bit and leading to what I personally believe is an underutilized yet extremely durable form of the Gladius Strike Force.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Sanguinary Priests, Red Scorpions and Salamanders have their own options. And my own Astral Claws have an Apothecary unit that is crap. The 30k one isn't bad, but it's not great either since it only goes in select units. I might be biased because I still don't play 30k and the 40k equivalent units scream mediocre in 40k. Might be different and very worth it in 30k.

So basically, no, I've never felt I'm missing out on them. I can get them in most of my Marine armies.

They only go in select units in 30k yeah, but the list of units is pretty big, and definitely better than just the command squad in 40k there's also an uber Apothecary HQ in 30k, the Primus Medicae, except he can't be your compulsary HQ anymore which sucks a bit.

If you're looking for an Apothecary as an independent character HQ slot, then you can Ally in some Blood Angels to your marine army (Or, BA successors) to allow you to have a /Master Apothecary/High Priest in your force. You'd need to bring a small tactical squad to make it a legal ally choice, but it would be a way to make it work.

You could even paint the tactical squad and Priest up to match your force, but use a slight variation on a kneepad or shoulder pad to denote that squad uses Blood Angels rules. Etc.

Hopefully that helps. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

 ImAGeek wrote:

They only go in select units in 30k yeah, but the list of units is pretty big, and definitely better than just the command squad in 40k there's also an uber Apothecary HQ in 30k, the Primus Medicae, except he can't be your compulsary HQ anymore which sucks a bit.

For which army in which book? I'm still struggling to navigate around the five friggin things that seem to have no rhyme or reason... But I am looking for something to improve what will be my Fulmachurius (or something) Terminator Squad for Ultramarines.

They had this in DoW2 and it was great. I give it a yes.

I support it too. Librarians and Chaplains are (or have been) HQ choices in most SM variants, why shouldn't the Apothecary be one? He's at least as important for a working Chapter as the others. Inded, without Apothecaries the Chapter is doomed to wither and die.

Being reminded of the Red Scorpions, a Chapter could well have suffered such losses that the Chief Apothecary takes command to ensure his Chapter recovers. Maybe the marines under his command actually find it a good thing to have a commander who doesn't want to throw them into the grinder for no reason? Then it becomes Chapter tradition that the Chief Apothecary is also Chapter Master, looking to preserve the Chapter legacy while doing the Emperor's bidding.

Spetulhu wrote:
I support it too. Librarians and Chaplains are (or have been) HQ choices in most SM variants, why shouldn't the Apothecary be one? He's at least as important for a working Chapter as the others. Inded, without Apothecaries the Chapter is doomed to wither and die.

Being reminded of the Red Scorpions, a Chapter could well have suffered such losses that the Chief Apothecary takes command to ensure his Chapter recovers. Maybe the marines under his command actually find it a good thing to have a commander who doesn't want to throw them into the grinder for no reason? Then it becomes Chapter tradition that the Chief Apothecary is also Chapter Master, looking to preserve the Chapter legacy while doing the Emperor's bidding.

My (BA successor) chapter's fluff is that their first chapter master was chief sanguinary priest of their progenitor chapter.

I say go for it. Apothecaries are space marines too!

In the 4th edition codex there was a chapter trait that allowed you to upgrade your veteran sergeant to an apothecary for 25 pts in any tactical or veteran squad.

I don't know about a single apothecary as an HQ. You could maybe have something the librarian conclave, where you have a unit up to 5 or 6, they take up one HQ(or elite), and they can then be attached to whatever units individually.

Spetulhu wrote:
I support it too. Librarians and Chaplains are (or have been) HQ choices in most SM variants, why shouldn't the Apothecary be one? He's at least as important for a working Chapter as the others. Inded, without Apothecaries the Chapter is doomed to wither and die.

Being reminded of the Red Scorpions, a Chapter could well have suffered such losses that the Chief Apothecary takes command to ensure his Chapter recovers. Maybe the marines under his command actually find it a good thing to have a commander who doesn't want to throw them into the grinder for no reason? Then it becomes Chapter tradition that the Chief Apothecary is also Chapter Master, looking to preserve the Chapter legacy while doing the Emperor's bidding.

Because apothecary don't lead.
A librarian is a powerhouse of psyker power, a Chaplin is the guardian of faith-the apoth, is the medic. he is the one busy collecting geneseed. he has no time for glorious charges and to take the enemy leaders head-on.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Chaplin

Has a silly hat, a silly Hitler moustache and dances funny. No idea why you think he should lead a Chapter. ;-)

Isn't there an Apothecary character in the Badab War stuff on Forgeworld's downloads page?

If a techmarine can, then so should an apothecary. It should be all about choice for the player. I don't think the apothecary would be a particularly great HQ, but that shouldn't stop players from having the choice.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Isn't there an Apothecary character in the Badab War stuff on Forgeworld's downloads page?

Yes. He's a Salamander.

 Slaphead wrote:
If a techmarine can, then so should an apothecary. It should be all about choice for the player. I don't think the apothecary would be a particularly great HQ, but that shouldn't stop players from having the choice.

See painboy. Terrible in a fight HQ but does his job of making his squad tougher and being slightly better then a nob to challenge. This would also make my ultramarine want more then their captain in 1000+ hq, or librarian in less then 1k match; get to use that HQ slot!

They're not really an "HQ" unit the way a Chaplain or Captain is. If anything, they really should function like an IG Priest or Commissar, where you can take a set number and then attach them to individual units as desired.

That said, I'm also not super keen on widespread FNP availability in SM armies, particularly on things like Centurions and Bikers.

I would love an Apothecary HQ.... seems like a cheap pick (65-85pts base?) which would do wonders for people who run CADs instead of Gladius or other formations. The option for him to take Special Issue wargear, like bikes or jetpacks, would increase the strengths of Raven Guard (even tho Corax could give a feth about the lives of his men when he has his eyes set on something) or White Scars.

He would help with Space Marine infantry in any category that a player would want to specialize in, giving a unit of their choice extra survivability on the field. Would do wonders with Devastators, Scouts, Centurions, and Sternguard.

As an HQ choice, he'd sit right in with the Chaplains and Librarians. I don't imagine anybody would want to take him into CC solo, like the latter could do.

Keep him as he's specced now and he can probably compete with Commissars in terms of cheap HQ options. Give him a bonus as an HQ and I can see one costing 125 pts. If he had an equivalent of Mastery Level 2, to maybe Narthicium Level 2 (4+ invul) or even a level on top of it (3+ invul OP spam)... who knows.

I honestly want an HQ in the price range of Techmarine/Chaplain/Librarian that can take Heavy Weapons...

OTHER OPTIONS;
Master of Recruits - Elect one troops choice and give it an endless swarm type role
Master of March - Elect one unit and it can run and shoot
Venerable Dreadnought - Remove it from elite, give it iron clad strength armor values, and make it an HQ



...you can always run formations, without doing detachments, and make your apothecary (character) your warlord.... although he still wouldn't be an IC

 Vaktathi wrote:
They're not really an "HQ" unit the way a Chaplain or Captain is. If anything, they really should function like an IG Priest or Commissar, where you can take a set number and then attach them to individual units as desired.

That said, I'm also not super keen on widespread FNP availability in SM armies, particularly on things like Centurions and Bikers.

I could totally see this being the way to do it. Just stupid that you never an apothecary on the field to gather the geneseed or be a combat medic..

 Vaktathi wrote:
They're not really an "HQ" unit the way a Chaplain or Captain is. If anything, they really should function like an IG Priest or Commissar, where you can take a set number and then attach them to individual units as desired.

That said, I'm also not super keen on widespread FNP availability in SM armies, particularly on things like Centurions and Bikers.

They have this in 30k and it is entirely fair.

The problem is arguably the Centurions, not the Apothecaries.

I would have no problem in a friendly game with someone using a Sanguinary Priest as a "Chief Apothecary" for a non-BA army with the proviso they lose the Blood Chalice and Furious Charge (they would get Chapter Tactics however).

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

They only go in select units in 30k yeah, but the list of units is pretty big, and definitely better than just the command squad in 40k there's also an uber Apothecary HQ in 30k, the Primus Medicae, except he can't be your compulsary HQ anymore which sucks a bit.

For which army in which book? I'm still struggling to navigate around the five friggin things that seem to have no rhyme or reason... But I am looking for something to improve what will be my Fulmachurius (or something) Terminator Squad for Ultramarines.

The Centurion HQ can take a Consul from a list of them, one of them being a Primus Medicae. They're independent characters so chuck Terminator armour on them and you should be able to take one with your Fulmentarus